Electric Vehicles

[FighttheGoodFight]

Besides electrification, another huge trend in cars is the proliferation of screens.

Digital dashboards, digital infotainment, even for climate control and front and rear passengers. There are more and more and they are getting bigger and bigger.

The head of BMW recently predicted things will soon start heading in the other direction; that most of the screens involve taking your eyes off the road which is a bad thing when operating a 2-ton moving vehicle.

I suspect we'll start seeing improved and expanded heads-up displays; maybe even embedding the digital information rather than just projecting it.

I wonder if 10 years from now all those huge screens in cars will start to look as dated as a cassette player.

Probably. I just assumed they used big screens because it is cheaper than having multiple buttons. Something breaks, you get a whole new screen. More money for repairs and easier to have controls in one spot.

I do hate no physical buttons. GM is the worst with this having the glove box open from within a screen. Madness.

[jccouger]

Besides electrification, another huge trend in cars is the proliferation of screens.

Digital dashboards, digital infotainment, even for climate control and front and rear passengers. There are more and more and they are getting bigger and bigger.

The head of BMW recently predicted things will soon start heading in the other direction; that most of the screens involve taking your eyes off the road which is a bad thing when operating a 2-ton moving vehicle.

I suspect we'll start seeing improved and expanded heads-up displays; maybe even embedding the digital information rather than just projecting it.

I wonder if 10 years from now all those huge screens in cars will start to look as dated as a cassette player.

Screens are not going away. Physical buttons are not coming back. Better speech command to car recognition is the path forward.

[Anonymous.]

Voice control is the future. The screens may get smaller, but I doubt they go away. New cars are already integrating Amazon Alexa. Basically you are going to be able to control your auto and home by voice anywhere you are.

[jccouger]

Voice control is the future. The screens may get smaller, but I doubt they go away. New cars are already integrating Amazon Alexa. Basically you are going to be able to control your auto and home by voice anywhere you are.

Beat you by a second lol (I had my phone write my reply by speech, just kidding LOL)

[Just the facts]

The reality is cars will need to be less computerized and less luxurious if people are going to afford them in the future.

[jccouger]

The reality is cars will need to be less computerized and less luxurious if people are going to afford them in the future.

Or costs in technology will continue to decline just like in personal computers & smart TVs.

[Just the facts]

Or costs in technology will continue to decline just like in personal computers & smart TVs.

Well that isn't working so far. Car prices are at all-time high and full of more tech than ever. Wonder what it would cost to produce a car with 2 doors, 4 seats, and an engine.

[TheTravellers]

Voice control is the future. The screens may get smaller, but I doubt they go away. New cars are already integrating Amazon Alexa. Basically you are going to be able to control your auto and home by voice anywhere you are.

That tech better be *reeeeeaaaallllyyyyy* good. Can't imagine any voice recognition being able to distinguish a command in a car with 2 adults, 2 unhappy kids, and maybe a dog....

[Just the facts]

If Alexa is any indication, voice command has a long long ways to go. Sometimes she struggles to turn on the correct light.

BTW, Amazon lost something like $10 billion dollars last year on Alexa so it might not be around much longer anyhow. Maybe Amazon will start charging me 5 cents everytime I ask Alexa to turn on my reading lamp.

https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...d-fall-2022-11

On edit - if you can't read the Business Insider article this is a similar one.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022...ion-this-year/

[Pete]

Voice control is the future. The screens may get smaller, but I doubt they go away. New cars are already integrating Amazon Alexa. Basically you are going to be able to control your auto and home by voice anywhere you are.

Voice control has been around for almost 20 years now.

It continues to get better but for various reasons, people seem to prefer to interact with touch screens.

I still see way more people using their fingers on their smartphones than speaking into it. And we all love data and graphics.

[April in the Plaza]

Or costs in technology will continue to decline just like in personal computers & smart TVs.

Will be very hard to do that, imo. Average new car has more than 1,000 chips. Just a completely different scale/supply chain than that demanded by a phone or pc.

https://economistwritingeveryday.com...here-in-a-car/

[Just the facts]

Will be very hard to do that, imo. Average new car has more than 1,000 chips. Just a completely different scale/supply chain than that demanded by a phone or pc.

https://economistwritingeveryday.com...here-in-a-car/

Two charts from that article which indicate cars will need be less electrical and more machanical in the future. In the housing market homes steadily got large for decades until the point that many people can't afford them. Now they are getting smaller to get prices down.

[jedicurt]

Well that isn't working so far. Car prices are at all-time high and full of more tech than ever. Wonder what it would cost to produce a car with 2 doors, 4 seats, and an engine.

there are still cars sub 20k in price and many of them have a lot of the new tech features added in. examples off the top of my head are the Mitsubishi Mirage, the Kia Rio, and the Nissan Versa. it's actually crazy the amount of tech that is put into a lot of these cars.

the reality of the situation is that these cars really weren't selling that great. that is why Ford and GM got out of the really low end car market. it had nothing to do with the cost to put tech in them, but the fact that people just weren't buying them. the average cost that people are willing to spend on new cars has been going up higher and higher for the last decade even when cheap cars were available. It seems that those that buy new, versus used, seem to want to spend more. so most manufacturers have gotten rid of cars that weren't selling.

so to answer your question. it's really not relevent in the US, to know what the cost to produce a car with just 2 doors, 4 seats, and an engine, with no other features, because people won't buy it. they will either buy something that costs a lot more, or go used to get more car for their money.

[jedicurt]

Two charts from that article which indicate cars will need be less electrical and more machanical in the future. In the housing market homes steadily got large for decades until the point that many people can't afford them. Now they are getting smaller to get prices down.

that second image isn't showing what you think it shows. of course electronics have become a larger percentage of the cost of cars. because older systems have been replaced, and there are now more electronic systems. this doesn't prove that the cost of cars have increased due to electronics, just that there are more electronics in cars.

[Just the facts]

I started to write a long response, but then decided I don't really care that much so I'll just say I think it says exactly what I believe it to say because most tech in a car is not replacing existing systems from a car built before the E Revolution.

[jn1780]

Screens are not going away. Physical buttons are not coming back. Better speech command to car recognition is the path forward.

At least one screen won't go away because of government mandated backup camera. Since it's there anyway, manufactures are going to load it with other features

[Just the facts]

From the "We can't afford it anymore" file.

https://thehill.com/business/3934301...-luxury-items/

From the article...

In the same five years, the share of sales under $25,000, a standard cutoff for economy vehicles, shrank from 13 percent to 4 percent.

“The manufacturers have been steering the market toward more expensive products,” said Charlie Chesbrough, senior economist at Cox. “All those bells and whistles, nav-screens, cruise control, all those fantastic and lifesaving technologies cost money.”

[jedicurt]

From the "We can't afford it anymore" file.

https://thehill.com/business/3934301...-luxury-items/

From the article...

In the same five years, the share of sales under $25,000, a standard cutoff for economy vehicles, shrank from 13 percent to 4 percent.

“The manufacturers have been steering the market toward more expensive products,” said Charlie Chesbrough, senior economist at Cox. “All those bells and whistles, nav-screens, cruise control, all those fantastic and lifesaving technologies cost money.”

yes, because people looking in that price range decided to go used. so auto manufacturers are stopping production of cars below that threshold, because people aren't buying them.

[baralheia]

Voice control has been around for almost 20 years now.

It continues to get better but for various reasons, people seem to prefer to interact with touch screens.

I still see way more people using their fingers on their smartphones than speaking into it. And we all love data and graphics.

Personally, voice control works best for situations where I don't already have my phone in my hands. Generally, I can do what I need by using my phone far faster than triggering the Google Assistant, speaking to my phone, and waiting for the cloud to interpret what I said. However I use Google Assistant all the time through smart speakers at home, especially since I've got some lighting plugged into smart switches.

That said, I'm on the fence about voice control in vehicles - but I can definitely see the potential there if it's well done.

[jedicurt]

Personally, voice control works best for situations where I don't already have my phone in my hands. Generally, I can do what I need by using my phone far faster than triggering the Google Assistant, speaking to my phone, and waiting for the cloud to interpret what I said. However I use Google Assistant all the time through smart speakers at home, especially since I've got some lighting plugged into smart switches.

That said, I'm on the fence about voice control in vehicles - but I can definitely see the potential there if it's well done.

voice control in vehicles is one of those things that seems great on paper. but when you put 3 toddlers in the back seat and realize very quickly how badly it works in reality.

[Just the facts]

yes, because people looking in that price range decided to go used. so auto manufacturers are stopping production of cars below that threshold, because people aren't buying them.

That is not why manufacturers stop building them. Ford stopped building cars because the profit margins were to thin and the only way they were going to meet environmental standards was to sell high margin SUVs and Pickups, then use those profits to buy credits from Tesla. Once Tesla started becoming profitable without selling their credits Ford bought into Rivian to use their credits. That gave Ford time to start their own EV operation and sold their stake in Rivian.

Volkswagen just bought a few $billion worth of credits from Tesla to be used in China.

[jedicurt]

That is not why manufacturers stop building them. Ford stopped building cars because the profit margins were to thin and the only way they were going to meet environmental standards was to sell high margin SUVs and Pickups, then use those profits to buy credits from Tesla. Once Tesla started becoming profitable without selling their credits Ford bought into Rivian to use their credits. That gave Ford time to start their own EV operation and sold their stake in Rivian.

Volkswagen just bought a few $billion worth of credits from Tesla to be used in China.

it seems that when the announcement was made back in 2018, the President of Ford North America, Kumar Galhorta, thinks that exactly what i said was the reason

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ford-ex...elling-sedans/

Kumar Galhotra, President of Ford North America and VP of Ford Motor Company, shared with Ford Authority executive editor, Alex Luft, that “the sedan segment itself has been in decline for a very long time, and that decline has been accelerating over the last few years.”

Galhotra continued, “Our industry is very resource-intensive – we have to create a particular product, and the factory to build it, and all the tooling and our suppliers – that can run into billions of dollars. The question then became, in that environment, of a finite amount of capital, where do we want to invest that capital? Do we want to invest it in a declining segment, or do we want to invest it in a growing segment?”

So there is Ford in 2018, saying that they were going to stop selling sedans, because the market for them had been in decline and accelerating. So on the record, Ford says they stopped manufacturing them because people weren't buying them. I think i will take their word on why they said they were going to stop producing their cars. But okay, we can say it was all so they could buy more carbon credits.... sure.

[Jersey Boss]

Just saying. Toyota is going with a hydrogen powered ICE configuration, no E involved.

List of hydrogen internal combustion engine vehicles - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ngine_vehicles

Until today Toyota had been resistant to go all in on E cars. While accepting of zero emissions and no fossil fuels they were looking to develop hydrogen fueled cars (https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/37888377.html).
New leadership is now going E.
https://www.theautopian.com/toyotas-...n-three-years/

[Bill Robertson]

it seems that when the announcement was made back in 2018, the President of Ford North America, Kumar Galhorta, thinks that exactly what i said was the reason

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ford-ex...elling-sedans/



So there is Ford in 2018, saying that they were going to stop selling sedans, because the market for them had been in decline and accelerating. So on the record, Ford says they stopped manufacturing them because people weren't buying them. I think i will take their word on why they said they were going to stop producing their cars. But okay, we can say it was all so they could buy more carbon credits.... sure.

I agree. Demand just isn't there for cars. Dodge won't have a car in their lineup after this year until they introduce an E car. Chevy is down to the Malibu. Buick hasn't had a car in their lineup for a while now. Car sales seem to be owned by KIA, Hyundai, Toyota, etc. Maybe because they started styling models outside the box.

[chssooner]

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...00-tax-credit/

Not a great thing for wanting 50% of vehicles in the US to be EV. The problem with government interference is, well, they interfere in the free market. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. This will lower demand for them, fairly significantly. I know plenty of people who bought a hybrid they thought would qualify, only to later find out it didn't.