NFL in OKC

[soondoc]

Remember when we built the downtown arena (The Peake). Doubters said that we couldn't support the NHL. We exceeded expectations with the NBA.

Now, let's build that foundation of a stadium (start with a MAPS IV private/public partnership, 20,000-seat riverfront stadium) which could some day be a catalyst to bring in other options for sports.

"Remember when Bobby Boucher showed up at half time and the Mud Dogs won the Bourbon Bowl"!

[OKCRT]

SA will not be getting an NFL team any time soon. The Cowboys and Texans claim that territory and will fight against it. La will not support an NFL team over the long haul. If the team is winning they will come out but when the team starts losing they will run away as fast as possible. La is a transient city and most people that live there are fans of other teams. Football fans are a pretty loyal bunch and most fans will stick with the team they have been rooting for. If they do build a stadium in La they will get a team and watch and see how it goes. The NFL will have to do everything in their power to make sure it's a winning team and I don't like that.

[Laramie]

NFL is a different animal--it would take more than just OKC's corporate support; it would take the whole state. NFL draws from a 150-200 mile radius. An OKC scenario would include Tulsa, Wichita, Fort Smith, Lawton, Wichita Fall etc., NFL will pull a lot of in and out-of-state sponsorships; not just the concern you would have about OKC's corporate base.

Do we underestimate our potential? We're the 42nd largest metropolitan area, yet we possess one of 30 NBA teams. Count Los Angeles and New York/Brooklyn as having two teams each we're fortunate to be among 28 cities. Nobody told us we had to stand in line and wait on Louisville, Anaheim, Norfolk-Virginia Beach, Kansas City or St. Louis to obtain an NBA franchise before we could secure one...

NFL looks at three key elements: Ownership, Facilities & Market. If Los Angeles & San Antonio want NFL teams, go for it--Oklahoma City is a 'can do city' and when & if the opportunity arises--we're not going to step aside and say, 'May I, because we feel other cities are more worthy' Let's flush that myth!

The potential future is post 2020, it would be a lot less expensive to plan ahead for let's say if we were to start with a venue on the level of the MLS (30,000-seat stadium); with the capacity to expand to 65,000-70,000 seats. You're not going to see another Big League sports franchise in OKC anytime soon; especially if you don't plan for the future.

Oklahoma Memorial Stadium could be used as a temporary home (not permanent) if OKC had a plans to build an NFL ready stadium--granted it won't be cheap. You're looking at a minimum of $500 million (w/o bells & whistles) for starters.

Smaller communities like Charlotte, Nashville & Jacksonville didn't say may I to Houston, Los Angeles & St. Louis:

Last five NFL expansion/relocation teams: Houston Texans 2002, Cleveland Browns 1999, Baltimore Ravens 1996, Carolina Panthers 1995 and Jacksonville Jaguars 1995.

Oklahomans love their football. In 1990 it was estimated that there were somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,000-5,000 Cowboy season ticket holders who resided north of the Red River who attended NFL games in the Metroplex.

[Jersey Boss]

While I do not know with any certainty, my guess is OU would not allow the NFL to use that stadium on a temporary basis. When the USFL/Oklahoma Outlaws were in business, they proposed using the stadium and paying rent. Keep in mind that the USFL was a spring-summer league at the time and the stadium was not being used for anything at that time of year. The regents would not allow it. You really think that OU would entertain for one moment to help a potential rival establish a foothold here and have to deal with the scheduling nightmares, as well as losing potential revenue ? Not a chance.

[Paseofreak]

The Tennessee Titans played a whole year of games in the Memphis Tigers stadium.

[Jersey Boss]

What the residents felt the last time a pro team wanted to use the stadium.
Stadium Neighbors Wary of Lease | News OK

[Laramie]

While I do not know with any certainty, my guess is OU would not allow the NFL to use that stadium on a temporary basis. When the USFL/Oklahoma Outlaws were in business, they proposed using the stadium and paying rent. Keep in mind that the USFL was a spring-summer league at the time and the stadium was not being used for anything at that time of year. The regents would not allow it. You really think that OU would entertain for one moment to help a potential rival establish a foothold here and have to deal with the scheduling nightmares, as well as losing potential revenue ? Not a chance.

I disagree:

NFL's Arizona Cardinals used Sun Devil Stadium in Tempe (just outside Phoenix) for five or six years before they moved to Glendale.

OU offered the Outlaws a lease that would not have made it profitable for the USFL team to be survive. They wanted a big percentage of concessions and so forth... They stated that had OKC had concrete plans to build a stadium, they would have been for a lease; they didn't want to get stuck with a USFL franchise on their turf. I'll try to find the article. Dr. William S. Banowsky was president of OU during that period.

Stadium Neighbors Wary of Lease | News OK

Study Sought On City Dome | News OK

Outlaws' Situation Upsets USFL's Simmons | News OK

[Laramie]

Lease Draft Due Regents Oklahoman Published: August 2, 1984

Lease Draft Due Regents | News OK

The regents last month ordered Ward and Tatham to get together on a proposed lease for presentation to the regents. That action temporarily set aside a Tatham proposal to lease Memorial Stadium for three years for about $325,000 a year.

OU Reviewing Lease Proposal | News OK

Cook said that plans to build a new arena to host the National Finals Rodeo could be expanded to make Oklahoma City an attractive site for a professional sports franchise.

"I feel reasonably certain we're going to have to build a stadium to keep the National Finals Rodeo here," Cook said.

City Being Courteous to Tatham | News OK

[Jersey Boss]

Stadium Neighbors Wary of Lease | News OK
Regent Tom McCurdy of Purcell said he has heard from 100 to 150 people about the Outlaws proposal, saying it was the biggest response he has received to any issue that has been before the regents.

About eight out of 10 people who contact McCurdy are against the proposal, he said.

"They would like to keep the presence of the campus atmosphere," he said. Even an Oklahoma City hotel manager who could benefit financially from the team was against the idea of a professional team playing on Owen Field, he said.

Again this was a team whose schedule was not in direct competition with OU due to different seasons. OU is not going to allow a competitor set up shop in their house.

[bluedogok]

Money seems to matter to athletic departments more now than it did 30+ years ago in the days before the OU/Georgia TV lawsuit. News stories from 30 years ago have no bearing on today. Athletic departments weren't focused on wringing every possible dime out of anything and everything. They really didn't have anything in the stadium other than football and graduations back then and the US Olympic Festival. Rocklahoma was done to help pay for new Astroturf but it wasn't until the Stones played there when Owens was AD that they actually had a concert just for the money.

[Laramie]

Not in the legal sense, but as Al Davis learned, owners that try to move without the league's blessing don't get very far. He could move in name, but the league gave him the cold shoulder. He was forced to move back and tried to sue them again, losing pretty significantly. That's why the league can put restrictions and conditions on a team moving to LA now, because moving without the league is a poor prospect.

And while it's true that, before taxes and other obligations, most franchises do earn money (there's usually at least one exception every year), they don't typically earn money for the city/state, just the people who run the franchises. That's why there was a backlash in Seattle against building a new arena for the Sonics that wasn't at least half-funded by the owners, cities usually lose money on sports franchises. City's agree to bear some of the costs of building stadiums because they view it as valuable amenities, not because it benefits the bottom line for anyone other than the owners (and even then, it may not be enough to recoup the investment costs). If the state at large had to put up 600 million to build an NFL stadium, it'd be a pretty bad investment even if we could make a team of billionaires materialize out of thin air to buy a franchise.

Jersey Boss and I know this isn't going to happen. It gets kinda boring because we don't attract a lot of posters on the Sports section of the OKCTalk forum; it gets stale after college football season. Activity should pick up as we approach the bowl season.

We know the state or city wouldn't spend a ton of money to build an NFL stadium; those things will be out-of-reach for many cities. We can't get the state to fulfill their promise ($40 million) to complete construction of the American Indian museum on the south banks of the Oklahoma River.

We did get the conversation stimulated where we attracted some more posters to this section; thanks for your research, Jersey Boss!

[OKCRT]

The Cotton seed place with all the metal buildings would be a perfect site for an NFL stadium. Get that land and build one and bring in a deep pocketed potential owner like Harold Hamm and a few of his ultra rich buddies and your all set. Plan for this to happen in 2022-2025. Build a retractable roof stadium so you can have a shot at final 4s and other events.

STL will be unveiling a new downtown stadium for the rams to play in within the next month. I hear it will be a downtown riverfront stadium with some big national sponsors like Enterprise Rental and ABInbev and others. Prob gonna cost somewhere in the billion dollar range. If OKC could do something like this you might be able to get a franchise like Oakland that doesn't really have a home at this time. The NFL came out today saying that no NFL team will be playing in LA in 2015. LA refuses to build a stadium. Cities that build stadiums and have enough corporate support can entice an owner like Davis or the Owner in Jax that will prob be looking to move after 2020. It can happen in OKC if the right people want it to happen. The city is growing faster than many other cities in the US and with a metro pop around 1.5 mil. it starts looking attractive.

[Edgar]

OKC just needs to concentrate on putting all efforts towards supporting the Thunder and be thankful to the person who made it happen- Howard Shultz. It's a fluke we have a team, not anything particularly special about the place.

[Achilleslastand]

OKC just needs to concentrate on putting all efforts towards supporting the Thunder and be thankful to the person who made it happen- Howard Shultz. It's a fluke we have a team, not anything particularly special about the place.

Hey, we have the Thunder and Bricktown.........
We are truly a big league city{just ask Mick}.

[borchard]

OKC just needs to concentrate on putting all efforts towards supporting the Thunder and be thankful to the person who made it happen- Howard Shultz. It's a fluke we have a team, not anything particularly special about the place.

We have two things to thank for the Thunder being here;
1. The voters of Oklahoma City, who voted to build an arena, even though there was no promise of a major tenant.
2. Howard Schultz, who COULDN'T get an arena built in Seattle, for being stupid enough to sell his team to four guys from Oklahoma City who already HAD an arena built.

[Urbanized]

3. The apathetic general populace of Seattle, who also had public-facility tax fatigue, and who forced a referendum which required proposed public sports facilities to turn a profit for taxpayers, making it incredibly difficult for public officials to play ball with team owners. By the way, there are TONS of sports fans in Seattle, but their general loyalties/excitement at the time revolved around the Mariners and Seahawks, who it should be pointed out were enjoying new facilities and the associated bumps in interest and attendance. It's also notable that a separately large percentage of the populace also couldn't give a hoot about sports.

4. The cultural arrogance which extended through the Seattle public and elected officials, who thought the whole moving thing was a bluff and that there was NO FREAKING WAY a team/league would abandon a world-class city (Seattle IS a world-class city, lest there be any debate) in favor of what they ASSUMED was a poor, dusty cowtown with a bunch of trailer-living hicks who couldn't afford NBA prices. All while completely ignoring the hidden economic advantages a team enjoys in a one-sport market, even a less-populous, less-affluent one. A side story of this cultural arrogance issue is the incredibly unfriendly Key Arena lease (unintended; it started out friendly), which Seattle officials refused to renegotiate and which gave the team crippling annual losses.

5. Hurricane Katrina, the unfortunate act of God whose coincidental consequence was an opportunity for OKC to demonstrate its capability as a market, its corporate community resolve, and the passion of its sports fans.

6. A dogged and determined OKC mayor who tilted at sports windmills, developing rapport with a league commissioner who liked to play hardball with cities who he felt didn't provide adequate financial/arena support for his team owners AND who had a stated passion for developing small markets.

7. An ownership group with surprising NBA and major league experience, lots of financial resources, and a resolve to take their hometown to the next tier of cities, and some of whom also felt locating major league sports would make business and corporate employee recruitment easier for them in a city where such recruitment was notoriously difficult.

And, for the record, Seattle Supersonics fans were NOT bad fans (in fact quite the opposite), and only stopped coming out when they started feeling like jerked-around pawns being forced to watch terrible basketball for their trouble and expense. Sonics fans were actually great fans (and there were plenty of them); they were just outnumbered by apathetic and/or tax/sports hostile neighbors.

Mark it down: the day Seattle has a good arena and an NBA team again (which will happen) Sonics fans will pack the house, like they did for decades.

It truly was an amazing sequence events that led to the arrival of the Thunder. If any one of those things didn't happen we would still be without a major league franchise of any kind. Anyone who tells the relocation story and who leaves out the points listed above has either an incomplete understanding of what happened OR has an agenda.

[borchard]

8. For George Shinn not being smart enough to sell the Hornets to Clay Bennett, et.al. when they tried, before he went bankrupt and the league had to take over his team. We would definitely have been watching the OKC Hornets. All things being equal I'm glad that didn't happen.

[Snowman]

We have two things to thank for the Thunder being here;
1. The voters of Oklahoma City, who voted to build an arena, even though there was no promise of a major tenant.
2. Howard Schultz, who COULDN'T get an arena built in Seattle, for being stupid enough to sell his team to four guys from Oklahoma City who already HAD an arena built.

The owner prior to Schultz also tried and failed to get a new arena built too for years, either the MLB or NFL was built on land he had acquired to try to get a new stadium built on, when that failed he took some tax money from Seattle to upgrade the existing arena. That ended up being problematic for the future owners since they ended up with a building that was loosing them a small fortune per year and that five to ten years prior (depending on which point Schultz was still asking) Seattle had just dumped half the price of some new NBA arenas on renovations

[Laramie]

There was nothing wrong with the attendance figures in Seattle. There just wasn't enough amenities in Key Arena (excellent basketball arena) to make it profitable to function as an NBA venue.

Urbanized summed it up with concerns that Seattle voters where overwhelmed with the tab they were given to cover all of the 'second-to-none' facilities to pay to keep the NFL & MLB viable in the Emerald City.

[Just the facts]

Hands down the absolute worst thing that can happen to OKC would be an NFL team. Jacksonville is the poster child for how an NFL team can suck a cities resources (both public and private) dry. Let me give you an example.

Here is Shahid khan, owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars:


Here is his yacht docked on the Jacksonville waterfront:


Here are the video boards and swimming pools he said were necessary to make the Jags a profitable team and wanted the City to pay for (cost $63 million):


This is the Laura Street Trio and The Shipyards - two projects Shadid said he would fund while the city mauled over his request for $63 million in renovations to Everbank Field



This story is a about library closures while the City mauled Shadid's request for $63 million.
Group Protests City Plan to Cut Library Hours, Staff | News | Avondale - Riverside News

In the end the City agreed to Shadid's request, libraries were closed, hours cut, staff position cut, and additional branch libraries put on notice for future closings. Shadid backed out of his plans for the Laura Street Trio and the Shipyards. The video boards and swimming pools are completed and the Jags are 3-12. The new soccer team in town is having trouble raising the money for the new stadium and the City of Jacksonville is way under-funded in their pension fund. All of this despite the billion dollars the City has spent on the Jags since they arrived. At what point is the NFL investment going to pay off for Jacksonville? Answer - never, because the NFL isn't about 'City Building'.

This is the Jaguars attendance:

[Jake]

I'd rather the city focus on supporting the Thunder and maybe an MLS team. OKC simply isn't big enough for an NFL team.

[gopokes88]

Why is this even a thread?

LA
San Antonio
London
Mexico City

Those are markets that will get NFL teams first. The NFL has also achieved perfect balance at 32 teams so they probably won't expand anytime soon.

There's also a guy named Jerry Jones would be pretty adamant in his opposition towards a team in Oklahoma.

[Laramie]

St. Louis: Edward Jones Dome, capacity 66,000.

The Edward Jones Dome was built 19 years ago at a cost of $280 million ($433 million in 2014 dollars). The NFL Rams' organization already want a new facility. There are similar concerns in Oakland and San Diego.

The San Antonio Alamodome built in 1993 is comparably as inadequate as the dome in St. Louis as a long-term option for an NFL franchise.

So, is this how it works(?): "You can catch the devil, but you can't hold him long?..."

Rishe said the Dome is considered one of the worst stadiums in the country...

"My sense is that if the Rams were to move to Los Angeles, their value would, currently estimated by Forbes to be slightly above $900 million, would easily double and that's something that cannot be lost on Rams owner Stan Kroenke...

...He said a new stadium could keep the Rams in St. Louis, but he says it would take an investment by the city, county and state of more than $700 million. Governor Nixon said he's talking to Kroenke.

Sports analyst: St. Louis Rams could leave for LA

Seriously, I truly doubt if you will ever see the NFL in Oklahoma City; unless one drops from the 2025-30 sky--much like the NBA Thunder.

The demands to keep & maintain an NFL franchise are 'unbelievable.' They can hold a city hostage; psychologically molest them in the process if they want to keep the NFL brand with a 20-22 year cycle call for a new stadium demand...

[Laramie]

Hands down the absolute worst thing that can happen to OKC would be an NFL team. Jacksonville is the poster child for how an NFL team can suck a cities resources (both public and private) dry. Let me give you an example.

Here is Shahid khan, owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars:

He looks like a vampire, Kerry.

[Just the facts]

The NFL is like a luxury car. Despite what the car commercials say it isn't going to get you a better job, a bigger house, lead to more sex, or make your wallet fatter - it is simply going to be a luxury item with a higher cost of ownership that you can 'afford' AFTER you have already made it. People who buy luxury cars before they can afford a luxury car will find themselves in Jacksonville's position - unable to pay for the necessities because the 'wants' never stop wanting.