REHCO / Former Downtown Ford site

[kevin lee]

I get the 10 plus years possibly (even though I hate it). I get keeping it a parking lot (even though I hate it). In the end they're gonna make money hand over fist off this deal whether they like it or not.My question is, will they try to spruce up the property. With everything going on around this property, the least they could do is spend a minimal amount of money to spruce up the place. Look at the difference the parking lot in bricktown made with a small beautification project.

[Teo9969]

I've been a vocal proponent of this and the Cox site not being redeveloped until 2025/2030 because we simply need more time to build the OKC brand. They constitute some of the most valuable land in the region and doing them right is the difference between leaving an indelible impression on visitors and have just another city.

I do think they could find some temporary uses outside of parking for some of the spaces...in fact they already have even in that area with the basketball court. When Scissortail Park is finished, I hope they put something in that invites pedestrians to move freely from MBG to SP. Maybe a place for some Food *Carts* which we could certainly use more of in OKC. Opportunities for an open-air Art Display that feature mainstay sculpture works and also purchasable art.

[Pete]

Reminder the Ford dealership has been closed now for almost a decade, a time of unprecedented downtown growth.

The owners clearly aren't in any hurry.

[Urbanized]

I've been a vocal proponent of this and the Cox site not being redeveloped until 2025/2030 because we simply need more time to build the OKC brand. They constitute some of the most valuable land in the region and doing them right is the difference between leaving an indelible impression on visitors and have just another city.

I do think they could find some temporary uses outside of parking for some of the spaces...in fact they already have even in that area with the basketball court. When Scissortail Park is finished, I hope they put something in that invites pedestrians to move freely from MBG to SP. Maybe a place for some Food *Carts* which we could certainly use more of in OKC. Opportunities for an open-air Art Display that feature mainstay sculpture works and also purchasable art.

Great point about the basketball courts. That was of course spearheaded by the Downtown OKC Partnership (then Downtown OKC, Inc), but that is the FOURTH temporary activation on land owned by these developers that has been pointed out. So it’s not like they are absentee slumlords. They are thoughtful and strategic redevelopers. Again, if they have a long play here that doesn’t involve immediate development I would expect to see them work to mitigate the current appearance issues and possibly allow for temporary activation in the interim, especially considering proximity to the park(s), arena and CC.

[Pete]

^

That property is nothing but a sea of asphalt used for parking for the landlord's benefit for over 8 years.

The basketball court is a tiny sliver of that (.14 acres of over 18).

There are no current plans to improve that property and there doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon.


Let's keep things in perspective here.

[catch22]

The city should shut down Harvey between the two parks and use the ROW as a pocket park/pedestrian corridor

[catcherinthewry]

The city should shut down Harvey between the two parks and use the ROW as a pocket park/pedestrian corridor

Excellent idea. Harvey really serves no purpose there.

[Urbanized]

^

That property is nothing but a sea of asphalt used for parking for the landlord's benefit for over 8 years.

The basketball court is a tiny sliver of that (.14 acres of over 18).

There are no current plans to improve that property and there doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon.


Let's keep things in perspective here.

I believe I absolutely AM keeping things in perspective. I am suggesting that being a Chicken Little is NOT doing so.

The land has been surface parking for eight years because it made sense as such. Eventually it will make sense as something much greater. As has been pointed out it probably currently has as much or more potential than any land in the state.

Rushing to put something - ANYTHING AT ALL PLEASE GET SOMETHING ON THIS SPOT OH MY GOD THE OWNERS ARE MAKING MONEY ON PARKING - is lunging. This spot deserves better than lunging.

If temporary activation other than parking makes sense at the time the CC and park come online, I would guess these owners would consider it, based upon their well-documented history. If/when it makes sense to move forward with whatever the permanent use is determined to be, they have the means and they have demonstrable experience.

[Pete]

Rushing to put something - ANYTHING AT ALL PLEASE GET SOMETHING ON THIS SPOT OH MY GOD THE OWNERS ARE MAKING MONEY ON PARKING.

Strawman, as no one has said anything remotely close.


Reminder that the owners fought tooth and nail not to let the city acquire this property for the convention center, taking them to court.

They also refuse to sell any of their properties (and Bob Howard has said he absolutely will not consider that) and they own a ton that remain un- or under-developed throughout the urban core. They also recently chose to move a huge business out of the core to the far north side of town creating much more vacant property with no real plan to develop it.


Everyone wants something great at this location but considering this ownership group has been sitting on it and a bunch of other properties for a long time and tends to move very slowly -- and has never come close to developing anything on this scale -- people are right to be concerned that this spot could sit vacant for quite a while. It already has.

[catcherinthewry]

Yes, this land is too important settle for a fast, less than ideal development. It needs to be done right. Luckily, the owners realize that.

[catch22]

One thing I have noticed in other cities is usually there is some sort of outdoor mall or pedestrian oriented retail zone close to their convention center/convention hotel.

[BoulderSooner]

The owners didn’t fight tooth and nail at all. They used the correct ed process (that the city was fine with until they realized the price) to get the actually value of their property. They were 100% ok with selling the land to the city. Just not for any discount. Which is what good business owners do.

This property is going t be developed once in the next what 70 years. They need to do it “right”. They have owned the property for what 100 years. Looking mostly at I40 and before a run down part or the city. They don’t “owe” a speedy development to anyone.

[Pete]

Oh how soon people forget...

REHCO made the city take them to court and knew darn well they would not be willing or able to pay a price as set by court-appointed appraisers. The land budget ($13MM) was spelled out in public MAPS 3 documents.

Also, REHCO was trying to get the city to make a swap for the Cox Convention site.

Things got so bad REHCO issued subpoenas and requests for all documents related to the convention center and hotel and then demanded $100 million for that site, a number way beyond anything that would be recommended by independent parties.

The whole thing was very contentious and in the end, the city withdrew their eminent domain proceeding -- after spending lots of planning money on that site -- at the last minute before they would be obligated to pay what the court manadated and focused.

Then, in a scramble, went back to the current site.

[Pete]

Took this today of this property and you can see the area fronting the boulevard has been sodded.

I believe that is still considered city/odot property.

[Urbanized]

Strawman, as no one has said anything remotely close...

Uh, I think my all caps made it quite obvious that was an exaggeration, but it is certainly the tone of many of these recent posts. The fact of the matter is that this is some of the most valuable and important property in the state of Oklahoma, and the owners of this property came to own it through fair, legal and honorable means. They of course are benefiting from the nearby location of public infrastructure (they also have been and continue to be inconvenienced by a decade+ of adjacent demolition and construction), but fair is fair. They have zero obligation to sell it below what it is worth or to develop it on any timeline other than their own.

They have a civic obligation of course to make sure that when they develop this land it does not detract from its surroundings, and I believe these owners will take that further and make sure it is the highest and best use, in part because they are good corporate citizens and in part because they are excellent businessmen.

[shawnw]

I think the city should wait to demo the cox site and keep using it until the ford site is developed. Unless they have a sure-fire highest-use solidly-financed proposal for the site that will start construction immediate after demo. if they are both vacant/flat at the same time it will terrible from the gardens with 2.5 of 4 sides undeveloped.

[Bellaboo]

I've been a vocal proponent of this and the Cox site not being redeveloped until 2025/2030 because we simply need more time to build the OKC brand. They constitute some of the most valuable land in the region and doing them right is the difference between leaving an indelible impression on visitors and have just another city.

I do think they could find some temporary uses outside of parking for some of the spaces...in fact they already have even in that area with the basketball court. When Scissortail Park is finished, I hope they put something in that invites pedestrians to move freely from MBG to SP. Maybe a place for some Food *Carts* which we could certainly use more of in OKC. Opportunities for an open-air Art Display that feature mainstay sculpture works and also purchasable art.

Just a few years ago, for a couple of years they tried to have a Country music fest, but with it being hotter than hell on asphalt, they couldn't make it go.

[BoulderSooner]

They didn’t “make the city take them to court”. The city choose to pursue ED on the site. Because the owners didn’t agree to their price. Period. They thought their land was worth more than the city was offering them. And guess what they were correct

[mugofbeer]

If it turns out to be done right and the city keeps crime away and people feel safe at the new park, it has the potential to change the complexjon of the entire downtown. If the park is seen as the "place to be," new housing and businesses will spring up in that entire area - even to the river and across, the Wheeler Ditrict and the Airpark development.

It may not be until this happens that some of these parcels become developed. These people own the land and its their right to develop them. Now if they also own other parcels elsewhere that could be used in a worthwhile development and start playing holdout- for-more simply because they can, thats a different story.

[SEMIweather]

Took this today of this property and you can see the area fronting the boulevard has been sodded.

I believe that is still considered city/odot property.

It's going to be a total mess if there are no improvements in the next 18 months, but honestly, even just repaving the existing lots would go a long way, IMO.

[JRod1980]

$50 bet, to the first taker, that nothing of great importance to the downtown landscape gets developed on this property by the end of 2020. Pete can even hold my money for me and a show of good faith, lol.

[Sooner.Arch]

Whenever they build it, whatever use it has, it has to be extremely sculptural. This is a chance for OKC to create a structure or several structures that encompass the architectural identity similar to the stage center or even the Kansa City performing arts center. Imagine being in the building and looking out to the new park and scissortail bridge, or looking towards downtown. Beautiful views! It needs to be an extremely architectural building. Something that is designed by a world renowned Architect. OKC deserves that.

[Pete]

They didn’t “make the city take them to court”. The city choose to pursue ED on the site. Because the owners didn’t agree to their price. Period. They thought their land was worth more than the city was offering them. And guess what they were correct

1. MidtownR rejected the City's offer, which forced them into eminent domain proceedings
2. They asked $100MM when it was nowhere near worth that amount and knew the City only had $13MM budgeted
3. They demanded they City consider trading them the Cox site
4. They supeoned sensitive information about the convention center and hotel studies, things that had not previously been made public
5. The day before Cathy O'Connor was to be deposed in all this, the City dropped the eminent domain lawsuit
6. Several news reports described the proeedings as contenious

[Rover]

They have a civic obligation of course to make sure that when they develop this land it does not detract from its surroundings, and I believe these owners will take that further and make sure it is the highest and best use, in part because they are good corporate citizens and in part because they are excellent businessmen.

What leads you to believe they are good corporate citizens when they are buying and hoarding key properties and waiting for public investments to maximize their value? Sounds more like profiteering than being leaders. They may know how to make money but I’ve yet to see them do real game changing development that induces other real development. Buy and hold isn’t leadership.

[OKCRT]

Strawman, as no one has said anything remotely close.


Reminder that the owners fought tooth and nail not to let the city acquire this property for the convention center, taking them to court.

They also refuse to sell any of their properties (and Bob Howard has said he absolutely will not consider that) and they own a ton that remain un- or under-developed throughout the urban core. They also recently chose to move a huge business out of the core to the far north side of town creating much more vacant property with no real plan to develop it.


Everyone wants something great at this location but considering this ownership group has been sitting on it and a bunch of other properties for a long time and tends to move very slowly -- and has never come close to developing anything on this scale -- people are right to be concerned that this spot could sit vacant for quite a while. It already has.

Sounds like money grubbing land barons