Classen Curve

[metro]

Wow, I didn't realize we had talked about it for so long. Nonetheless, I didn't make claims that it was coming, let alone to Classen Curve (which didn't exist back then) and clearly stated it was rumors and I posted a reply from Whole Foods, which did not indicate they were coming. Since that time, I have had more credible sources provide new information as has Steve.

[metro]

About republic, I'm pretty disappointed that it won't have one of the covered patio areas next to it. Hopefully some of the new restaurants opening here will utilize those courtyards/patios, but I would prefer those that do to be more of a drinkng place and not necessarily just a restaurant. Basically, I'd rather be on a republic patio than an Upper Crust patio.

Also, I have a feeling parking is going to be aweful. Even moreso as they get more tenants, especially along the northern strip of CC

FYI, RePUBlic does have outdoor seating in the rear, and it was pretty killer too, outdoor lounge furniture and weatherproof tv's housed in what I'm guessing is weatherproof entertainment units.

[onthestrip]

FYI, RePUBlic does have outdoor seating in the rear, and it was pretty killer too, outdoor lounge furniture and weatherproof tv's housed in what I'm guessing is weatherproof entertainment units.

I did see something on the western side of rePUBlic that looked like a patio, which is good. However, in Oklahoma a patio really needs to be covered to be comfortable and get the most use. We dont get many beautiful days like today. I think there were some tall bushes on the west side of patio that might provide shade in evening times. But with that said, restaurants and bars that want a good patio cant just throw out tables and chairs on a concrete slab and expect people to show up. You got to think of how the sun/wind/elements will effect the patrons.

[Steve]

Four years ago you had three sets of developers chasing after Whole Foods, and that's probably where the rumors started.

[jbrown84]

Oh? Who else besides Aubrey? I'm guessing one was Humphreys (for the 36th St project).

[Steve]

Quail Springs the third

[OKCTalker]

Had lunch today at RePUBlic. Here's a quick, down & dirty review: The parking wasn’t an issue when we arrived at 11:00 a.m., but it’s always going to be very tight (the employees are expecting to have to shuttle in from a satellite parking lot). Walking in the front door, we were presented with lots of hard, black surfaces and a high ceiling, with beer bottles going all the way up two walls. Along the north bar back, beer taps run for around 20 linear feet under a bank of TV sets, over which is installed the biggest TV screen this side of the Ford Center. (There was an architectural oversight with the placement of cold beer taps adjacent to warm electronics, but I’m sure they’ll keep things under control). Sound levels are partially controlled by acoustic panels among the ceiling beams, so conversation was easy even with rock music playing across the hard surfaces. The kitchen is on the north side of the space, and between it and the bar is where they keep the beer – scores of kegs, hundreds of cases of bottles in bakers racks, in a two-story-high walk-in refrigerator that looks like a Bond villain’s secret lair. Oddly, there was a sign on the walk-in door prohibiting entry to anyone under 21 years of age. Hmmm -I guess if it's big enough to walk in, you've got to install the placard. Indoor seating is in four-person, high-backed booths (22-25 booths), plus a half-dozen outdoor seating areas. The patio area is bordered by a dense, mature hedge row about 8’ high, and each seating area has a large screen TV on top of a cold air blower. (We were told that each seating area had a space heater until last night, when all but one were stolen – look for outside security modifications.) The food was about the least-healthy thing you could imagine, and was fantastic! We had the pulled chicken nachos, a Classen Burger (think of an upscale Theta), and a Coke, and were out for $18.50 + tip. Sadly, only two desserts (including a beer float). The hundreds of beer menu groups by category, and then from light to dark. (They could have fun with a contest to see who is the first to drink every beer they offer.) All food and beverage is on their Web site REPUBLIC. And employees come partially from “the family” (other Good Egg restaurants), or have been poached from the competition. All were attentive and pleasant.

Reservations – not right now. And you’ll be asked to wait for a table if either the dining room or kitchen is backed up. Both are good ideas.

[metro]

FYI there's a RePUBlic thread in the food court section. Oh yes and the outdoor heaters were custom made, pretty neat looking. I guess they'd be easy to spot in someones backyard.

[onthestrip]

Went last night. Food was great, finally a sports watching replacement for the Varsity.

But about the shopping center. Parking is going to be an even bigger problem than I originally thought. I wouldnt imagine many retailers wanting to locate in the spaces next to rePUBlic as they chewed up all surrounding parking. They will have to find a way for employees to park elsewhere as someone mentioned above. Even with this and Upper Crust and Cafe 501 spaced out evenly throughout the center, it will still be tough to find parking at peak hours.

The only ones that are probably happy are 105 Degrees, who could definitely use the extra traffic.

[BDP]

Hopefully, Classen Curve will not be a single destination type shopping center, in which case parking at the front door of a specific place shouldn't matter. I would hate for it end up being just another strip mall and, to do that, I think t has to be more walkable. And the more people "have" to walk, the more storefronts they walk by. This is actually a GOOD thing for all retailers in the development and is the whole point of doing a targeted shopping development rather than just another hodge podge strip center.

[OKCTalker]

If CC has an Achilles heel it is the parking. It obviously meets code minimums for parking places - even including the many restaurants - but this shows the dangers of achieving only the minimum. I envision that the leases do (or will) require tenant employees to park off-site, and that will have to be enforced.

[metro]

If you read Rand's comments on why he designed it that way, is so that it would give it a "main street" feel internally and to cause walking past storefronts, etc. I think if it were a bigger sea of parking, it would be single destination shopping center only.

[progressiveboy]

If you read Rand's comments on why he designed it that way, is so that it would give it a "main street" feel internally and to cause walking past storefronts, etc. I think if it were a bigger sea of parking, it would be single destination shopping center only.

Agree Metro. This is not meant to be another "cookie cutter" shopping center or destination it is designed to encourage pedistrian walking and looking at window store fronts and displays. This is good for OKC as it is different and unique and not your typical shopping center. I do not think parking will be as big of an issue as some people have mentioned.

[metro]

and heaven forbid we actually have dense, packed looking shopping centers in the inner ring of the city!

[BDP]

If CC has an Achilles heel it is the parking.

I agree, but not because there isn't enough of it. They obviously had to work within our codes and they certainly made an improvement, but the parking lot is still the center piece of the design. I think that's what holds up a lot of our retail developments, at least in the sense of creating an atmosphere that many of today's top retailers look for, which is a better pedestrian flow to drive more foot traffic past their front door.

Maybe there's not a lot of parking at each storefront, but there is still a ton of parking in this development. In fact, if this fails because of lack of parking, then I think we can forget about attracting developments in the future that more closely mirror more modern developments that attract the "hot" retail stores. Hopefully, the opposite will happen, and CC will show that OKC is ready for a more pedestrian friendly shopping experience that allows for the type of storefront density that many are looking for today.

[OKC@heart]

Without having seen expansion plans or knowing of much else that is going on in the immediate area, I would say that it provides a fairly cool opportunity for a developer to build a structured garage very close by and wrapped with retail at ground level and then residential above. that way the vertical aspect is concealed and it provides a supporting role that would be an income generator and showcase the retail that is closest as people head over to CC.

It will probably take the opening of several more of the anticipated retailers first though to create the demand pressure that we all see is inevitable.

[OKCTalker]

I don't have Rand's quote from Sunday's paper, but I felt his statement about evoking a "downtown" feel was frankly ridiculous. It's a strip center with parking on the back and an industrial design. It certainly doesn't make me think of OKC's Main Street in the 1950s, and when I hear Petula Clark singing "Downtown," Classen Curve won't be one of the images that comes to mind.

To parking specifics: Can anyone find how many spaces they provided, and what was required in their permit?

[onthestrip]

Hopefully, Classen Curve will not be a single destination type shopping center, in which case parking at the front door of a specific place shouldn't matter. I would hate for it end up being just another strip mall and, to do that, I think t has to be more walkable. And the more people "have" to walk, the more storefronts they walk by. This is actually a GOOD thing for all retailers in the development and is the whole point of doing a targeted shopping development rather than just another hodge podge strip center.

But thats the thing, this is a strip center. Just because its designed by a hip architect and built with fancy finishes doesnt change the fact that its still a strip center. It has no depth and no parking. You guys must not get the realities of real estate development. You cant hope that customers will want to park far away from their destination and stroll along the store fronts on their way. If you dont offer relatively close and convenient parking, you will lose customers. Plain and simple. I have a worse feeling about parking once all 4 restaurants are open.
They should have waited and tried to acquire another row of houses for more parking and depth. Something more of a square or plaza would have been better, think Spring Creek Plaza in Edmond. That would have helped with getting desired national tenants. I think they will end up with more mom and pop tenants, that in the end, will struggle to survive.

[jbrown84]

You're saying it is a strip center because it has no sea of parking? That makes no sense. Spring Creek is pretty tight on parking as well, especially the newer part west of Bryant that has more restaurants.

[onthestrip]

You're saying it is a strip center because it has no sea of parking? That makes no sense. Spring Creek is pretty tight on parking as well, especially the newer part west of Bryant that has more restaurants.

I call it a strip center because it is long and narrow. And I'm referring to spring creek plaza which is on the east side and more of a center than a strip. And CC doesn't need a sea of parking but it does need adequate parking. Dallas has several strip centers similar to CC and with similar parking numbers, or even less, but what makes it work is that there are usually hundreds of housing units in close proximity. Not the case with CC, people still will have to drive there and park, if they can find a space.

Not trying to be all negative, just pointing out the realities of it.

[bluedogok]

But thats the thing, this is a strip center. Just because its designed by a hip architect and built with fancy finishes doesnt change the fact that its still a strip center. It has no depth and no parking. You guys must not get the realities of real estate development. You cant hope that customers will want to park far away from their destination and stroll along the store fronts on their way. If you dont offer relatively close and convenient parking, you will lose customers. Plain and simple. I have a worse feeling about parking once all 4 restaurants are open.
They should have waited and tried to acquire another row of houses for more parking and depth. Something more of a square or plaza would have been better, think Spring Creek Plaza in Edmond. That would have helped with getting desired national tenants. I think they will end up with more mom and pop tenants, that in the end, will struggle to survive.

There are multiple parking garages at The Domain and the main level fills up everyday around noon and pretty much stays that way until I leave for the day. The Hill Country Galleria is the same way. That is pretty much how all the "lifestyles" centers in the past few years have been built, it forces people to get out and walk on the "street". If you want a wide open mass of asphalt Belle Isle Station is right around the corner.

Classen Curve was built in the mold of what retail development is currently doing, not what it was doing. Some people won't like it but if they get the right tenant mix in there those few people won't matter, but then they are the same type of people who gripe about having to pay for parking in Bricktown or gripe about "no parking" because they can't pull up at the front door and park. They probably love Bass Pro though....

[jbrown84]

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see parking added as part of a larger structure to the south with retail and residential concealing the parking garage (a la Mockingbird Station).

[betts]

If there are stores to stroll past, people will be fine with it. There's some strolling in the Nichols Hills Plaza although not extensive and I like doing it when I'm in the area. If Classen Curve is primarily restaurants, then people will complain. I drove through last night and noticed there were a lot of cars and people had to park a fair distance away to go (I presume) to Republic. If I were Aubrey, I would think about acquiring more land in the neighborhood behind, although I don't know how the residents would feel about it. It was his plans for parking north of the Nichols Hills Plaza that got the largest number of people upset, when he was proposing improving it, IIRC.

[OKCTalker]

When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall. Unless it's one of the few days we have in Oklahoma where it's 72 degrees and calm. The only strolling that I've seen at local strip centers is in their architectural renderings (where, amazingly, it appears to be 72 degrees and calm).

[OKCMallen]

When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall.

Shhhhhhhhhh, don't tell Utica Square! They haven't gotten the message and they're doing REALLY well!