Electric Vehicles

[Swake]

Even so, if the huge majority of vehicles in California are EVs, that's thousands of people now out of the gasoline market, which means a decline in oil prices, which means a decline in the Oklahoma oil industry. Is our economy diversified enough that the city and state will make it through that unscathed?

We probably have more employment from the natural gas industry already and increased electrical use will only drive more demand for NG. My guess would be they will offset.

[Pete]

There are a lot of oil jobs of course but that represents just a small fraction of our total employment.

I always point out Chesapeake went from over 6,000 very well-paid jobs to currently less than 1,000 and it was barely noticed.

Whatever change is coming will be very gradual and will be easily absorbed, at least in OKC.

[Pete]

On the subject of oil companies:

Shell has plans to increase its electric vehicle charging network, Shell Recharge, from 140,000 global charge points today to over 500,000 by 2025.

[Just the facts]

Tesla missed their delivery numbers for the first quarter. Price cuts failed to lure new buyers. At some point EVs will reach peak-market share.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/tesl...to-lure-buyers

[Jersey Boss]

Nm

[Swake]

Tesla missed their delivery numbers for the first quarter. Price cuts failed to lure new buyers. At some point EVs will reach peak-market share.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/tesl...to-lure-buyers

You left out the stated reason for the miss:

bleak economic outlook and rising competition

Also, I expect people that work from home to buy fewer cars, or at least buy them less often. That's where I am, I drive maybe
3-4,000 miles a year now, down from ~15,000 miles. At the age of my car I would normally replace it about now, but with it paid for, and it only having ~60k miles and my driving so little I feel no need to buy a new car.

[Pete]

Also, I expect people that work from home to buy fewer cars, or at least buy them less often. That's where I am, I drive maybe
3-4,000 miles a year now, down from ~15,000 miles. At the age of my car I would normally replace it about now, but with it paid for, and it only having ~60k miles and my driving so little I feel no need to buy a new car.

I'm the same way... Only put about 7,000 miles per year on my car for the last few years.

Also, this is a terrible time to buy a car. The constrained supply chain + inflation means very high prices.


As of June, I will have had my current car for 20 (!) years. I keep saying 'one more year' and the way things are now I'll probably keep saying that for a while.

[jedicurt]

Tesla missed their delivery numbers for the first quarter. Price cuts failed to lure new buyers. At some point EVs will reach peak-market share.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/tesl...to-lure-buyers

once again. there are more EV manufactures than just Tesla, and once again, yes, they will take market share as the big manufacturers start to stop making so many ICE vehicles.

[Pete]

Tesla missed their delivery numbers for the first quarter. Price cuts failed to lure new buyers. At some point EVs will reach peak-market share.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/tesl...to-lure-buyers

You are now just trolling and/or arguing against facts and reason.

[Just the facts]

All I did was post a business article about Tesla missing their estimates and repeated the headline. Now I did add in the comment that at some point EVs will reach market saturation and is anyone seriously disagreeing with that?

"Tesla misses delivery estimates as price cuts fail to lure buyers"

The article is from Reuters.

[Pete]

^

It's the sum total of your posts on this subject.

I think most of us are pretty much done trying to refute the numerous erroneous assumptions and statements as the more we do, the more you keep digging into your position.

That is your right, but at some point it's not worth the trouble to debate with you.

[catcherinthewry]

You left out the stated reason for the miss

I'm starting to see a pattern here....

Anyway, most legacy car manufacturers are betting on the future of EVs. I think that they fear that if they don't, they will end up like the legacy wagon makers of the early 20th century. Of course, this is going to take a lot of investment and they are going to lose money on EVs for a while. That's just how major changes like this work. Ford has already come up with a big winner in their F-150 Lightning. They opened pre-orders in August of 2021 and I made my pre-order in November of '21. Soon after that the demand was so high that they had to limit the pre-orders to 200,000. Finally, 17 months later I got to order mine last week and should get it this summer. They literally can't make enough of them to meet the demand. In fact, they've already announced the next generation of the EV full sized truck. I think they are going to be just fine.

[Just the facts]

I'm just going to post this without further comment. Read it or don't. It is from the Institute for Energy Research.

https://www.instituteforenergyresear...ric%20vehicles.

[Swake]

I'm just going to post this without further comment. Read it or don't. It is from the Institute for Energy Research.

https://www.instituteforenergyresear...ric%20vehicles.

I don't want to venture too far into the political, but "The Institute for Energy Research" is an anti-climate change front founded by the Kochs, headed by the former head of public policy of Enron and funded by people and companies like Charles Koch and Exxon.

[jn1780]

I will make one last comment and say that in 40 and 50 years BOTH ICE and electic vehicles will be more luxury items unless there is a great advancement in technology or nuclear energy. Renewable only works if you use it wisely.

[David]

I will make one last comment and say that in 40 and 50 years BOTH ICE and electic vehicles will be more luxury items unless there is a great advancement in technology or nuclear energy. Renewable only works if you use it wisely.

Are you expecting that after 40 to 50 years have passed we will not have had dramatic advancements in technology? I feel like that is a bad bet.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I will make one last comment and say that in 40 and 50 years BOTH ICE and electic vehicles will be more luxury items unless there is a great advancement in technology or nuclear energy. Renewable only works if you use it wisely.

Eh I think we use EV as a transition then move to hydrogen as a long term vehicle fuel. They still use electric motors so just refining electric motors before hydrogen becomes mainstream is good. But we move more autonomous vehicles over time and perhaps have less cars overall as they can work for us in different ways.

Or WWIII and we are all riding around in our Flintstone cars.

[Just the facts]

I don't want to venture too far into the political, but "The Institute for Energy Research" is an anti-climate change front founded by the Kochs, headed by the former head of public policy of Enron and funded by people and companies like Charles Koch and Exxon.

All of the details in that article come from UK Daily Mail, but they are real numbers publicly available from a number of sources so the facts are not in dispute.

Here is the Daily Mail article.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...expensive.html

[gjl]

Toyota thinks hydrogen is the future. Not battery powered EVs.

[Bill Robertson]

Toyota thinks hydrogen is the future. Not battery powered EVs.

That's possible. Just like ICE are gas or diesel. There can be 2 or more environmentally friendly options.

[David]

Toyota thinks hydrogen is the future. Not battery powered EVs.

The good news on that front is that a hydrogen powered car is basically an EV with a different battery. A great deal of the technology that is being refined for EVs will be directly applicable to HVs.

[Jersey Boss]

Just saying. Toyota is going with a hydrogen powered ICE configuration, no E involved.

List of hydrogen internal combustion engine vehicles - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ngine_vehicles

[Martin]

Just saying. Toyota is going with a hydrogen powered ICE configuration, no E involved.

List of hydrogen internal combustion engine vehicles - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ngine_vehicles

that's interesting. i think the most compelling thing about that technology is that it doesn't rely on rare earth metals for battery production... that's my biggest concern with ramping up ev production. however, i wonder if there are any safety risks associated with a pressurized hyrdrogen fuel tank.

[Pete]

Besides electrification, another huge trend in cars is the proliferation of screens.

Digital dashboards, digital infotainment, even for climate control and front and rear passengers. There are more and more and they are getting bigger and bigger.

The head of BMW recently predicted things will soon start heading in the other direction; that most of the screens involve taking your eyes off the road which is a bad thing when operating a 2-ton moving vehicle.

I suspect we'll start seeing improved and expanded heads-up displays; maybe even embedding the digital information rather than just projecting it.

I wonder if 10 years from now all those huge screens in cars will start to look as dated as a cassette player.

[Just the facts]

My BMW has the little dial joystick with 6 buttons. It allows me to have physical feedback while making menu selections so I can make changes/adjustments by feel alone. My wife's car has a giant screen with no physical feedback and where you need to touch the screen at changes depending on which screen you are on. Needless to say, we are not fans of the big touch screens (which also has to be cleaned all the time because of finger prints).