Convention Center

[TheTravellers]

So, after cutting back on sidewalks, the whitewater facility and other projects, suddenly we have $39 million extra just as there is a request for a new convention center parking garage that was at first rejected by the committee.

Disgusting. What was it about the good ol' boy system not being of much relevance here in OKC any longer? Yeah....

[HangryHippo]

So, after cutting back on sidewalks, the whitewater facility and other projects, suddenly we have $39 million extra just as there is a request for a new convention center parking garage that was at first rejected by the committee.

Ain't that some sh*t...

Also, who handles projections and budgeting for OKC? It seems there's a glaring lack of competence and accountability by that office.

[warreng88]

So, after cutting back on sidewalks, the whitewater facility and other projects, suddenly we have $39 million extra just as there is a request for a new convention center parking garage that was at first rejected by the committee.

I am not saying I agree with it, but the article says there could be more left over and used for other things you mentioned:

Additionally, the 77-acre central park also in the works under MAPS 3 is running into increased costs for land acquisition and remediation, he said, so $9 million could help there as well.

Other projects include a fifth senior wellness center – the original MAPS 3 project list planned only four – at a cost of $9 million to $12 million, about $3.5 million in sidewalks throughout the city and a like amount for new trails. The Riversport Rapids facility on the shore of the Oklahoma River may need more funds also, Couch said.

Now, I am not holding my breath on those, but it looks like it may be spread around.

[kevinpate]

If they have nor or are not building what they originally pitched, i.e. the pitched mileage on trails for example, then let's be real, that ain't so much a surplus but money that didn't get used where it was supposed to and is now claimed as extra.

Some of that they have done is real nice, but some of what they have done, and are doing, does highlight the problems with hey, trust us with 3/4 billion, and we'll use it the way we say we will.

[Pete]

It's very dangerous to project and spend a big expected overage when they still have not started on the streetcar and the convention center and most the park -- the biggest MAPS 3 projects -- have not even been put out to bid.

As a reminder, we've already cleared out a lot of the contingency fund to spend more on the convention center.

[Rover]

If you all think that estimates and budgets done nearly 10 years early are ever going to be accurate, then this crowd is more naive than I thought. So, when things cost more and scopes are reduced, there is criticism. Now, income projections were also low and more money has been collected, so some scopes may be increased and THAT brings criticism.

As plans become more definite, as a higher % of the projects are actually bid and/or done, as we see more contemporary cost levels on items left to do, risk of the total budget overrun is reduced. That is what is happening. I am sure everyone feels more and more confident of costs as we continue. We may even get more cost breaks if interest rates now starts to rise and slowdowns occur on speculative construction, freeing up more competitive bidding among contractors and lower prices of building materials. Now if our Prez to be starts imposing 35% tarriffs on material from China et al, all bets are off.

[ljbab728]

I agree, Rover. No excess funds are promised yet for additional projects. It is just common sense that you would have proposals ready if additional funds become available at a later date instead of just waiting until everything is done and say "hey, what do we do with the money now?". It certainly is possible that other projects that aren't really started may need additional funding and I see nothing saying that any additional funds might not be used for that. Too much hand ringing for something just being talked about.

[Pete]

The issue is that they are seeking to spend $10MM on a parking garage that was never part of MAPS 3 and will likely look to do that before allocating anything back to the other projects.

Seems like that is completely backwards and once again shows how the convention center continues to get preferential treatment, primarily due to the people pushing for it. Many other examples of this as has been noted for years.

[ljbab728]

The issue is that they are seeking to spend $10MM on a parking garage that was never part of MAPS 3 and will likely look to do that before allocating anything back to the other projects.

Why is that likely to happen? The article clearly says it's a suggestion and gives reasons why it would be a good suggestion. I still see nothing wrong with that at this point. Obviously we would want to follow this closely but it's too early to be sure that something like that will happen.

A suggestion does not mean a "fait accompli".

[Pete]

Because they have already asked for the $10MM for the garage and no formal request has been made on behalf of the other projects.

And, the other projects weren't even mentioned until they first met opposition for the $10MM ask.

[ljbab728]

Because they have already asked for the $10MM for the garage and no formal request has been made on behalf of the other projects.

And, the other projects weren't even mentioned until they first met opposition for the $10MM ask.

The article says it is a suggestion, not a request. Has there been a formal request?

[Urban Pioneer]

There was a formal request. It was shot down at the MAPS 3 Oversight Board a few months ago. I was there and spoke against allocating the $10 million prematurely as well. At that time, we did not have our streetcar construction bids in. It was a really brash move by Cathy O'Connor and Jim Couch quite frankly. A shockingly brash move at that.

Now that the streetcar construction bid has come in under budget, short of us running into haunted indian burial grounds or dinosaur bones, I am more comfortable with it in the context of our project specifically.

There are potential "Park N' Ride" opportunities for the streetcar system should space allocations be made in the garage for such an endeavor and marketed by COTPA that way.The garage location is actually in a perfect strategic place for "Park N' Ride" applications. I would like to see the revenue from the garage go towards streetcar O&M, but the reality is that they are only asking for the bare minimum to make up for the financing gap. Revenues will go towards COTPA's bonding and the other half of the financing.

[Urban Pioneer]

It would be politically wise to complete all of the sidewalks originally promised, build all of the river amenities, and cover any other shortfalls. That would enable future MAPS campaigners to be able to state that we built everything promised to the voters in MAPS 3. And the sidewalks are definitely needed.

[Laramie]

It would be politically wise to complete all of the sidewalks originally promised, build all of the river amenities, and cover any other shortfalls. That would enable future MAPS campaigners to be able to state that we built everything promised to the voters in MAPS 3. And the sidewalks are definitely needed.

Agree,

We should definitely keep promises made to maintain the integrity of the MAPS brand.

A two-to-three year (shorter collection time span) MAPS for Neighborhoods could include additional funding for side walks and amenities within the neighborhoods themselves. Some of the newer neighborhoods have been neglected; we need more sidewalks along with sidewalks replaced or repaired in many of the older and more established districts like Heritage Hills, Gatewood, Kennedy & Capitol Hill.

Any updates on the convention center & conference hotel?

[ljbab728]

There was a formal request. It was shot down at the MAPS 3 Oversight Board a few months ago. I was there and spoke against allocating the $10 million prematurely as well.

I'm glad to here that. In that case, Pete's assumption that it will likely happen before allocating excess money to other project is not necessarily true.

[stile99]

I'm glad to here that. In that case, Pete's assumption that it will likely happen before allocating excess money to other project is not necessarily true.

Maybe I'm not following the train correctly, but Pete said they would 'likely look to do that' first, not definitely. You disputed that and said it was only a suggestion, and asked if there had been a formal request. Then Urban Pioneer said there was in fact a formal request.

Looks to me like Pete is right, the only 'untrue' part was he assumed it was to take place in the future, not something that had in fact already taken place.

[Pete]

The article says it is a suggestion, not a request. Has there been a formal request?

What it says is that Jim Couch suggested ways the $39MM could be spent, as he is not a voting member of any of the MAPS committees.

And yes, there was a formal request made for the $10MM for the parking garage which that committee voted to table, mainly because it came completely out of left field without any prior discussion.

Now that the committee has balked, suddenly it's revealed we have this surplus and there is vague talk about some of it being spread to the other projects although there is no current plans or pending budget increases before any of those committees.

[Spartan]

The issue is that because this is all decided behind closed doors so as to avoid public disputes - there is no public process besides these early rumors.

[Laramie]

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Oklahoma City's bond rating by Moody's = Aaa

Aaa: This is pronounced “triple-A”. This is the highest rating Moody’s assigns issuers and individual bond issues. This is the strongest category of creditworthiness.

Aa: Pronounced “double-A”. This the next highest tier of Moody’s. It implies very strong creditworthiness.

A: Pronounced “single-A”. This is the third highest tier. It implies above average creditworthiness.

Baa: Pronounced “B double-A”. This is the fourth highest tier and the lowest tier of what is generally considered ‘investment grade’. This implies average creditworthiness.

Understanding bond ratings: http://www.municipalbonds.com/educat...-bond-ratings/

Our city has the highest bond rating assessed by Moody's.

We didn't plan for a $10 million parking garage for the convention center & hotel site. We have budgeted and planned for everything except the parking garage. Are there other means to finance the parking garage if we don't have enough money to do it with 'surplus MAPS money.'

In the run-up to the December 2009 MAPS 3 election, voters were promised "four to five state-of-the-art health and wellness aquatic centers ... to encourage healthy lifestyles and serve as a gathering place for active seniors."

Advisory group favors fifth MAPS 3 senior health and wellness center: http://newsok.com/advisory-group-fav...rticle/5530910

My first thought is to build the things we can build that may have been downsized or cut from MAPS 3's original plan which includes adding a fifth Senior Wellness Center.

[Urban Pioneer]

From what I remember of this meeting, Chairman McDaniel said something like "We have a proposal brought before us today..." and then Cathy O'Connor gave a big pitch. Jim Couch walked in when people started balking but it still failed.

It was a really brash move and I am proud that the MAPS Oversight Board resisted their big push. I personally would have felt more respected if we had a subcommittee meeting in which we were asked what our additional priorities are in respect to our prospective projects with the potential for a surplus to fund them. At least before we start having large allocations taken out of the surplus.

[warreng88]

OKC Council expected to approve land purchase for convention center

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record January 16, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – City Council members are expected Tuesday to approve the purchase of real estate along SW Fifth Street for the construction of the MAPS 3 convention center.

The $362,000 deal includes several lots between S. Shields Boulevard and Broadway Avenue now held by American Motel Investors Inc. of Tulsa. The purchase price was negotiated under the city’s Core to Shore urban renewal plan with oversight by the Urban Renewal Authority.

Two years ago, those parcels and several others adjacent to them were purchased by Anish Hotels Group LLC for $975,000 and immediately transferred to American Motel Investors. The two groups are largely made up of the same principals.

Anish Chief Executive Andy Patel said the city needed only some of the property. American Motel will continue to hold the rest.

Two days after the City Council considers the sale, American Motel is scheduled at the Downtown Design Review Committee with an application via Paul Shell and SQD Architects to construct a five-story hotel and parking lot about a block away on Fourth Street. The relocated S. Broadway Avenue will be the project’s western boundary.

Patel said he would not be building a hotel on the west side of downtown Oklahoma City if not for MAPS 3, a temporary sales tax projected to generate $777 million for several projects such as Oklahoma River renovations, 77-acre central park, senior wellness centers and the convention center.

In December, City Manager Jim Couch suggested to council members that some of the $39 million in MAPS 3 revenue that hasn’t been earmarked yet could go toward the construction of a parking garage near the new convention center. He said the garage would benefit the visitors of the park, an adjacent hotel and Chesapeake Arena as well.

Anish’s hotel plan already has parking included, according to Downtown Design Review Committee documents. He said that if city officials approve the plan, construction will begin this summer.

Anish’s latest developments include the Residence Inn by Marriott in downtown Tulsa, Home2 Suites by Hinton in the Tulsa Hills area and Hampton Inn & Suites in Stillwater. In late 2014, Patel purchased land in the Bricktown district in Oklahoma City to build a nine-story Canopy-branded boutique hotel. That project is now underway.

[Spartan]

.



Oklahoma City's bond rating by Moody's = Aaa

Aaa: This is pronounced “triple-A”. This is the highest rating Moody’s assigns issuers and individual bond issues. This is the strongest category of creditworthiness.

Aa: Pronounced “double-A”. This the next highest tier of Moody’s. It implies very strong creditworthiness.

A: Pronounced “single-A”. This is the third highest tier. It implies above average creditworthiness.

Baa: Pronounced “B double-A”. This is the fourth highest tier and the lowest tier of what is generally considered ‘investment grade’. This implies average creditworthiness.

Understanding bond ratings: http://www.municipalbonds.com/educat...-bond-ratings/

Our city has the highest bond rating assessed by Moody's.

We didn't plan for a $10 million parking garage for the convention center & hotel site. We have budgeted and planned for everything except the parking garage. Are there other means to finance the parking garage if we don't have enough money to do it with 'surplus MAPS money.'



Advisory group favors fifth MAPS 3 senior health and wellness center: http://newsok.com/advisory-group-fav...rticle/5530910

My first thought is to build the things we can build that may have been downsized or cut from MAPS 3's original plan which includes adding a fifth Senior Wellness Center.

Yes we did, when we gave the CC a budget that is more than double that of any other project that the voters actually wanted. That's the equivalent of saying that a different project budget doesn't "expressly" include a line item for bathrooms, so it must not be included therefor give me more money thank you come again.

[Laramie]

3 IF's...

IF OKC (41st largest MSA) builds a convention center lets not half step while many cities of our comparable size (Jacksonville, Louisville & Memphis) are doing the Texas two step .


Oklahoma City Convention Center, 200,000 sq. ft., 19-floor 600 room Omni Hotel.


40th - Jacksonville Prime F. Osborn III Convention Center, 265,000 sq.,ft


42nd - Memphis Cook Convention Center upgrades, 125,000 square feet, 31 meeting rooms and a connected 600 room Sheraton Memphis Downtown Hotel.


43rd - Louisville Kentucky International Convention Center, Renovated 2016–18, 300,000 sq., ft.

IF you've been to the Cox Convention Center of late; there's is no way our current venue will complete for reputable conventions, large gatherings & trade shows.

IF there's money left over from the MAPS III collections. Build any popular project(s) left off the MAPS III original proposals.

[Spartan]

Wait what? Those aren't exactly sequential or even tangential "ifs."

Those also aren't even nice facilities. If that's what you think we need, build it at the fairgrounds. In fact I thought we already done just that. Also IF #2 nobody is saying to keep the Cox Center. Regarding IF #3, that's so fantastic and generous that we should get back to any other priorities once we build the convention center "IF" there is any money left over from MAPS III collections. That's exactly what we promised voters: "7 great projects, but only 1 that we really want, and we'll see about the rest of all of this once Larry Nichols gets what he wants."

[_Kyle]

If they are building this one what are they gonna do with the cox convention center?Will we have two or will they tear it down?