Convention Center

[jdross1982]

The reductions were a number of miles of sidewalks, grandstands at the river, reduction in the size and additional features of the rapids, and most importantly the senior wellness centers were reduced from as many as 6 to 2 I believe.

I am in complete agreement that with the $42 million in contingency funds OKC could complete the remaining sidewalks that were cut out previously and the grandstands (and additional lighting required) along with using the $10 mil for the parking garage. I also believe the garage is mandatory along with the hotel but also believe there should be retail at street level and built with the ability to build on offices or housing.
The problem is you have the park, cc, and transit which are the biggest expense items that fall under the MAPS budget and expecting those to all fall within budget and not dip into the contingency is a bit short sighted. Like I said before, I would much rater extend the duration of the tax to make up for the amount necessary to build the complete list of items voters approved. It may need 6 months or could need 18.

The Santa Fe Station is going to be great when completed and look forward to using it. I think the issue is the idea was for it to serve local rail service, high speed rail and other transit needs and at this time that is most likely not going to happen for a while.

[Urban Pioneer]

Sorry, I don't know how to multi-quote on this forum.


1. "most importantly the senior wellness centers were reduced from as many as 6 to 2 I believe."

I think four were originally planned.

2. "I also believe the garage is mandatory along with the hotel but also believe there should be retail at street level and built with the ability to build on offices or housing."

Totally agree.

3. The problem is you have the park, cc, and transit which are the biggest expense items that fall under the MAPS budget and expecting those to all fall within budget and not dip into the contingency is a bit short sighted.

​Yep. That is why I went and spoke against committing to this so quickly.

4. Like I said before, I would much rater extend the duration of the tax to make up for the amount necessary to build the complete list of items voters approved. It may need 6 months or could need 18.

​Doing this is distinctly a possibility. Even more so considering that there isn't really a coherent vision for the next MAPS.

5. The Santa Fe Station is going to be great when completed and look forward to using it. I think the issue is the idea was for it to serve local rail service, high speed rail and other transit needs and at this time that is most likely not going to happen for a while.

​It will serve AMTRAK and the streetcar in the near term (two years). Potentially BRT in five. Commuter rail is at least eight years away imhop. "High Speed Rail" like the Acela- who knows. Depends on the President and the congress.

[OKCRT]

Sorry, I don't know how to multi-quote on this forum.


1. "most importantly the senior wellness centers were reduced from as many as 6 to 2 I believe."

I think four were originally planned.

2. "I also believe the garage is mandatory along with the hotel but also believe there should be retail at street level and built with the ability to build on offices or housing."

Totally agree.

3. The problem is you have the park, cc, and transit which are the biggest expense items that fall under the MAPS budget and expecting those to all fall within budget and not dip into the contingency is a bit short sighted.

​Yep. That is why I went and spoke against committing to this so quickly.

4. Like I said before, I would much rater extend the duration of the tax to make up for the amount necessary to build the complete list of items voters approved. It may need 6 months or could need 18.

​Doing this is distinctly a possibility. Even more so considering that there isn't really a coherent vision for the next MAPS.

5. The Santa Fe Station is going to be great when completed and look forward to using it. I think the issue is the idea was for it to serve local rail service, high speed rail and other transit needs and at this time that is most likely not going to happen for a while.

​It will serve AMTRAK and the streetcar in the near term (two years). Potentially BRT in five. Commuter rail is at least eight years away imhop. "High Speed Rail" like the Acela- who knows. Depends on the President and the congress.

Might be best to extend maps tax and finish these projects and then let the tax die. No more maps taxes after the current one runs out might be the way to go.

[dankrutka]

Might be best to extend maps tax and finish these projects and then let the tax die. No more maps taxes after the current one runs out might be the way to go.

Why no more MAPS? Maybe the MAPS strucure needs to change to be approved on a project-by-project basis or the focus of projects needs to be shifted, but I don't see why getting rid of the system makes sense. MAPS is the one thing OKC is doing to put itself ahead of other cities.

[Laramie]

Why no more MAPS? Maybe the MAPS structure needs to change to be approved on a project-by-project basis or the focus of projects needs to be shifted, but I don't see why getting rid of the system makes sense. MAPS is the one thing OKC is doing to put itself ahead of other cities.

We could look at a shift as you mentioned Dan, shorted the collection years to two or three with 3 or 4 projects. We could generate $100 million a year. Should help with cost estimates; therefore we lessen the chance of having to cut or downsize the projects.

That's the beauty of MAPS--bundled projects. The City generates a list of projects with voter appeal.

Remember the original 1993 MAPS, had we attempted a project by project initiative (piecemeal), only the DT library would have had a decent chance of passing on its own.

[warreng88]

Opportunity knocks: Conventions priced out of first-tier markets

Experts say the timing's right for Oklahoma City

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record October 6, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – Indianapolis and Portland are vying for a bigger piece of the meeting and convention pie, but there’s still room for Oklahoma City, experts said.

Convention and meeting planners are getting priced out of larger cities, leading them to second-tier metros, said Loren Edelstein, editor-in-chief of Meetings and Conventions magazine.

“As people are locked out of the major cities in terms of securing blocks of meeting space at a decent rate, they’ll be looking at smaller cities they may not have considered,” she said.

Hotel costs make up 25 percent of a meeting planner’s annual budget, according to M&C’s 2015 survey. The average maximum room rate is $220, with the average attendee cost at $1,156, according to the study. The highest budget item is food and beverage.

The city of Oklahoma City heard last week about the $235 million 600-room Omni hotel that would connect to the MAPS 3 Convention Center. The hotel project calls for $85 million in public funding.

Edelstein said the investments in a convention center hotel would be worth it in the long run. Nationwide, the meeting activity generated $46 billion in local taxes in 2009, and the industry has continued to grow since then.

But if a convention center hotel opens, existing hotel rates could rise as well. That will not dismay the business traveler, said Jan Freitag, senior vice president of STR, a data and analytics company.

In Nashville, the Omni hotel with the Music City convention center opened in 2013. The average daily rate increased $7 from 2013’s fourth quarter to 2015’s first quarter. At the same time, the average number of room nights has grown from 430 to nearly 800. Hotel supply has increased 20 percent.

Freitag said it generally takes a couple of years before the average daily rates increase in a market because events like conventions and meetings are booked two years in advance. The market doesn’t reflect the change immediately.

“Even if room rates go up, that doesn’t impact demand,” he said. “The decision about attending the conference is made at a different point than the travel.”

What could affect Oklahoma City’s demand is competition. In Portland, the city is developing a 600-room Hyatt Regency Hotel, connected to the Oregon Convention Center. According to Travel Portland’s analysis, the city missed 16 major conventions because it didn’t have a hotel with its convention center.

The Oregon convention center has 255,000 square feet of contiguous space, 50 meeting rooms, and two grand ballrooms. It also has an 800-space parking garage. Hotel construction will start in early 2017, and it will open in 2019.

The MAPS 3 Convention Center will have a 200,000-square-foot exhibit hall, 45,000-square-foot meeting space, and a 30,000-square-foot ballroom.

In Indianapolis, the city is targeting larger events. Its existing convention center has 566,000 square feet of contiguous space. The convention and visitors bureau has hired a company to see if more hotel rooms are needed, as well as more convention space, said Chris Gahl, Visit Indy’s senior vice president of marketing.

Successful Meetings Editor-In-Chief Vincent Alonzo said it will be important for Oklahoma City to find its convention niche. He said the meeting industry isn’t expected to slow anytime soon. M&C’s survey showed that most people are expecting to have a higher budget and spend more on their meetings.

“The time is right now for destinations like Oklahoma City to get out there and sell themselves because of the factors like hotel rooms being high and first tier being so expensive,” Alonzo said. “There’s real opportunity out there for the Oklahoma Cities of the world to get out there and grab that business.”

[Pete]

More renderings for convention center

[Pete]

More renderings for convention center

[soonerguru]

I may be alone in this assessment, but I really like the look of this design and these renderings.

[Spartan]

That's a lot of drop ceilings where they could have more creatively/timelessly defined space boundaries.

I'd also like to note that there appears to be a second subsidized CC hotel planned for on the opposite corner from the Omni. So get ready for that. Bc Populous is a one-stop shop for feasibility study, market study, and design they have probably already banked on forcing us to do the second CC hotel here in ten years.

[shawnw]

I'm not saying it's the best thing ever, but I don't object. And I would not be ashamed to show my out of town visitors. Perhaps not a homerun, but for sure a productive hit putting runners in scoring position.

[BoulderSooner]

That's a lot of drop ceilings where they could have more creatively/timelessly defined space boundaries.

I'd also like to note that there appears to be a second subsidized CC hotel planned for on the opposite corner from the Omni. So get ready for that. Bc Populous is a one-stop shop for feasibility study, market study, and design they have probably already banked on forcing us to do the second CC hotel here in ten years.

What are you talking about?

The non subsidized Private hotel that is going to be build there

[Colbafone]

I may be alone in this assessment, but I really like the look of this design and these renderings.

No way you're alone. I think this looks fantastic.

[catch22]

Looks good!

[David]

Yeah, it looks great to me, too. Looks competitive with any number of top tier convention centers I have been to in much larger cities.

[gopokes88]

I like it a lot

[Laramie]

What are you talking about?

The non subsidized Private hotel that is going to be build there

Agree, we have an opportunity to get another non subsidized private hotel which could add 100-135 more rooms to the convention center site. We could have 700 to 735 rooms available on site by 2020.


A deal set to be heard Wednesday by the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority will allow development to being again on a Fairfield Inn in the area known as Core to Shore. Developer Andy Patel said upgrades will be made to the hotel, including a possible change in brands.

OKC will be poised to meet the demands of the convention industry as more hotel rooms are added to the core.

[jerrywall]

Agree, we have an opportunity to get another non subsidized private hotel which could add 100-135 more rooms to the convention center site. We could have 700 to 735 rooms available on site by 2020.


A deal set to be heard Wednesday by the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority will allow development to being again on a Fairfield Inn in the area known as Core to Shore. Developer Andy Patel said upgrades will be made to the hotel, including a possible change in brands.

OKC will be poised to meet the demands of the convention industry as more hotel rooms are added to the core.

And even that may not be enough. SoonerCon in Midwest City, which is a smaller event (2k attendees) runs out of rooms. They have 151 rooms at the Sheraton, plus 3 hotels next to the convention center, so about 300+, and there aren't enough. I can't imagine the demands with a larger event (5k plus). Wizard World which is moving to OKC will probably bring in 10k or more attendees.

[shawnw]

If Tulsa can do it (Wizard Con), we can do it. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like we have way more downtown rooms than Tulsa now.

[jerrywall]

If Tulsa can do it (Wizard Con), we can do it. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like we have way more downtown rooms than Tulsa now.

It's the demand on the rooms for other purposes. We pulled SoonerCon out of downtown OKC because we couldn't get enough rooms.

[shawnw]

It's the demand on the rooms for other purposes. We pulled SoonerCon out of downtown OKC because we couldn't get enough rooms.

In fairness though, literally hundreds if not a thousand or more hotel rooms have come online downtown (with many more coming) since SoonerCon was downtown, right?

[jerrywall]

In fairness though, literally hundreds if not a thousand or more hotel rooms have come online downtown (with many more coming) since SoonerCon was downtown, right?

In 3-4 years? I don't think so.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to be negative about it. At the contrary, I was pointing out the need for these hotels.

[shawnw]

Yes, in the last 3-4 years hundreds if not a thousand hotel rooms have been added downtown I believe. We can probably look at Pete's downtown hotel guide if it has the dates of opening and do some quick figuring though.

(and I get you weren't being negative, just saying the capacity has been rapidly improving)

[jerrywall]

Hrm. I'd be interested in seeing that breakdown. I'm not sure of any downtown hotels that opened since 2013. I know of one in Bricktown in development (it may have opened). But in downtown? In fact, I think Sheraton lost rooms (in exchange for more meeting space).

[Bellaboo]

Holiday Inn Express and 21C Museum Hotel opened.

Aloft and Ambassador a couple of years ago also.