BOK Park Plaza

[Plutonic Panda]

Amazing to me the gripes coming from okc folks now. The amount of construction and proposals is staggering compared with 7 or 8 years ago and is blowing those of us in Tulsa out of the water. Is it perfect? No... But it is solid regardless.

And of course Devon wants their second tower close to their first. That's reasonable.

You guys in Tulsa can have this tower. Please, by all means take it. Ridiculous when there is ample surface parking to make it work and they can build a sky-bridge for just a little bit more money but they don't want to listen to it.


At this point, I would not be surprised if someone proposed to tear down FNC and build a 45 story building that has a horrible layout and a park between it and the building like the Devon Lawn when there is a parking garage the could be torn down and rebuilt for a new high-rise; I'm not even going to mention the countless number of vacant lots around the downtown area.

[Jeepnokc]

My favorite building on the block is the bus station and I wish it could be saved (I do have many fond memories of the Hotel Black as it was the place my business grew from one singular office to having a whole floor).

Two issues that were brought up at the DDRC are still not being addressed. These changes do nothing to prevent Walker being a empty block of parking garages from Sheridan to Main and these changes don't do anything to make this corner compliment John Rex.

The amount of retail considering the amount of sq footage available on the first floor is a joke. Do we really need more than enough space for ramps to the second floor and some loading docks? With the Montgomery and possibly two more residential towers in the Clayco block along with the residential going in near 21 c...this will be prime retail space. This doesn't take into account having the Devon Tower and the two new office buildings with all of their workers converging in the same area. Parents picking up their kids from school...makes a convenient place to run into drug store or other retail before picking or after picking up kid. There is also the new condos going up near civic center.

[Just the facts]

Amazing to me the gripes coming from okc folks now. The amount of construction and proposals is staggering compared with 7 or 8 years ago and is blowing those of us in Tulsa out of the water. Is it perfect? No... But it is solid regardless.

And of course Devon wants their second tower close to their first. That's reasonable.

What is wrong with trying to make it perfect? Even if we don't achieve perfection we at least will land on 'better', and better is...well...better.

[Plutonic Panda]

Preservation problems: Groups plan to protest updated 499 Sheridan plans | The Journal Record

[warreng88]

Preservation problems: Groups plan to protest updated 499 Sheridan plans | The Journal Record

Preservation problems: Groups plan to protest updated 499 Sheridan plans

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record December 29, 2014

OKLAHOMA CITY – Three groups are planning to voice concerns over the planned 499 Sheridan building. Two organizations are worried about historical buildings being demolished, while a third entity isn’t pleased with the complex’s redesign.

The American Institute of Architects Central Oklahoma chapter is upset with the 499 Sheridan design, which has a 692,000-square-foot, 27-story office tower and two adjacent parking garages totaling 757,000 square feet. During its December meeting, the Downtown Design Review Committee criticized the design for having too much space devoted to parking. The AIA of Central Oklahoma agrees, according to a written statement to The Journal Record.

“AIA supports good urban design principles that are not readily evident in the proposed development,” the organization said. “The placement of the tower, the significant space devoted to parking, as well as the limited retail space available are contrary to creating a dense, vibrant civic core.”

While the AIA is concerned with the overall design, Preservation Oklahoma doesn’t want to see existing buildings razed. In total, nine buildings would be removed on the block between Sheridan, Hudson and Walker avenues, and Main Street. Some of the significant buildings include the Union Bus Station, the Motor Hotel, One North Hudson Avenue and the former home of Carpenter Square Theatre. The organization started an online petition that has collected 130 signatures as of press time Monday evening.

Preservation Oklahoma Executive Director David Pettyjohn said the group attended December’s DDRC meeting and then held an emergency board meeting to discuss further action. It has formed a task force and is looking at alternatives to the building and parking garages. It plans to file a formal letter with the DDRC and speak in protest at the Jan. 15 meeting.

“We are also raising awareness to the block,” Pettyjohn said. “A lot of people may not be aware of the historical significance in the area. These are the most intact buildings of Oklahoma City’s once-thriving Main Street. That tract has been determined to be a historic district because of the representation of early Oklahoma commercial history. Union Bus Station could be listed on the National Register of Historic Places.”

The 499 Sheridan structures are being designed by Jon Pickard of Pickard Chilton architecture firm. The company designed the Devon Energy Center, and Devon Energy Corp. has already confirmed it will place offices in the new tower. During the DDRC meeting, Pickard said several elements from the old buildings will be used in the new structure, including blue tile from the Union Bus Station.

“That’s not historic preservation,” Pettyjohn said. “We applaud the effort. They realized the historic significance of the buildings, but saving some of the friezes and incorporating the tiles – that’s not historic preservation.”

He said the organization is also disappointed that buildings would be removed to make way for parking structures.

The Oklahoma City Foundation for Architecture will protest razing the buildings as well, but it has not formed an official statement yet.

[s00nr1]

Anyone else notice the window boxes at Devon were taken down?

[shawnw]

Looks better, but seems detrimental to their case to do that, unless they put up "for lease"/"build to suit" signs.

[BDP]

Amazing to me the gripes coming from okc folks now. The amount of construction and proposals is staggering compared with 7 or 8 years ago and is blowing those of us in Tulsa out of the water. Is it perfect? No... But it is solid regardless.

And of course Devon wants their second tower close to their first. That's reasonable.

I don't think the objective is to just build more than Tulsa or any other city. Downtown is an area to approach in totality, just like one would do with their own neighborhood. The "gripes" you mentioned are mostly reasoned concerns about how this project affects the area around it and how it influences development going forward.

Even those that are arguing for preservation have a strong economic and pragmatic basis for their position given the tremendous and ample examples of success with preserved and re-purposed properties currently found around the city. The most vibrant districts in the core, and the ones written about most in articles highlighting the city's renaissance, owe much of their revitalization more to restoration than demolition.

Really, the fact that there are so many projects coming online these days is exactly why there is more concern for the ones that depart from the formula that has made Oklahoma City what it is today. At this point, developments shouldn't need to disregard the current and future urban landscape just to get something built. At some point you would hope all of this new development would get the city to a point that if a development does want to destroy some of the current assets, that they should be replaced with something better. IMO, this tower is okay, not particularly interesting, but not awful, but I don't think the tower is the issue. When considering the development as a whole, most of what will be destroyed will be replaced by parking garages of bland design with a dash of retail being promised. Why would anyone expect that this is still acceptable when we're seeing many other projects these days go to great lengths and expense to contribute to the urban revitalization of the city's core instead of just leeching off it?

There are many examples of development approaches that have been posted that would mitigate almost every concern stated by the DDRC and some posters here. If anything, I think there is just more pride in this city than there has been in a long time and more and more people are demanding better developments that match that pride.

[BDP]

Anyone else notice the window boxes at Devon were taken down?

Maybe they're just planning on replacing the displays with pretty renderings of this project.

[blwarch]

Preservation Oklahoma is a statewide preservation organization supporting the preservation of the local historic properties in this case. OKC had a local preservation group (the Criterion Group) that went defunct several years ago. It would be more effective if a local organization was created to champion these issues in the future, with POK providing support in a background role. With our focus being statewide, we are organizationally stressed to have to try to rally the troops locally. POK would be supportive of any effort undertaken to create this local preservation organization.

I personally feel strongly that there are important buildings affected by this proposal, and hope that at least three of the buildings could be preserved in this block (Auto, Black and Bus Station). There was a preservation survey completed for the City of OKC (2009-2012) that identified this block as a potential historic district (District 1 in the report), with many of the buildings listed as "contributing". If this potential historic district were formalized, all of the contributing buildings would qualify for a 20% federal tax credit and 20% state tax credit for qualified rehabilitation expenses. This is the best incentive that the preservation community has to offer.
The link to the report is here: http://www.okhistory.org/shpo/archit...solidation.pdf

With so few signatures on the change.org site, it will be difficult arguing that the local community feels strongly about this issue.
If you want to voice your support, please sign the petition, contact the DDRC, and join POK. We will continue our efforts and appreciate any support that you can give.
https://www.change.org/p/oklahoma-ci...city-s-history
Historic Preservation Education - Preservation Oklahoma, inc. - Oklahoma City, Ok

Barrett Williamson, NCARB, President of the Board of Directors

[Plutonic Panda]

Nothing really new in this article, but good to see this getting some needed press.

Proposed skyscraper could mean demolition of historic buildings | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com

[Spartan]

I wish I could say I thought anything would help. We couldn't/didn't save the Stage Center and these buildings have far fewer redeeming qualities. Why would the DDRC save them when they didn't care to save an architecturally significant, unique building?

These buildings are usable and functional. The problem is that our definitions change for the worse with every new look we take at preservation.

499 is a bad bad bad project the more that I stew over it.

[Spartan]

Preservation problems: Groups plan to protest updated 499 Sheridan plans

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record December 29, 2014

OKLAHOMA CITY – Three groups are planning to voice concerns over the planned 499 Sheridan building. Two organizations are worried about historical buildings being demolished, while a third entity isn’t pleased with the complex’s redesign.

The American Institute of Architects Central Oklahoma chapter is upset with the 499 Sheridan design, which has a 692,000-square-foot, 27-story office tower and two adjacent parking garages totaling 757,000 square feet. During its December meeting, the Downtown Design Review Committee criticized the design for having too much space devoted to parking. The AIA of Central Oklahoma agrees, according to a written statement to The Journal Record.

“AIA supports good urban design principles that are not readily evident in the proposed development,” the organization said. “The placement of the tower, the significant space devoted to parking, as well as the limited retail space available are contrary to creating a dense, vibrant civic core.”

While the AIA is concerned with the overall design, Preservation Oklahoma doesn’t want to see existing buildings razed. In total, nine buildings would be removed on the block between Sheridan, Hudson and Walker avenues, and Main Street. Some of the significant buildings include the Union Bus Station, the Motor Hotel, One North Hudson Avenue and the former home of Carpenter Square Theatre. The organization started an online petition that has collected 130 signatures as of press time Monday evening.

Preservation Oklahoma Executive Director David Pettyjohn said the group attended December’s DDRC meeting and then held an emergency board meeting to discuss further action. It has formed a task force and is looking at alternatives to the building and parking garages. It plans to file a formal letter with the DDRC and speak in protest at the Jan. 15 meeting.

“We are also raising awareness to the block,” Pettyjohn said. “A lot of people may not be aware of the historical significance in the area. These are the most intact buildings of Oklahoma City’s once-thriving Main Street. That tract has been determined to be a historic district because of the representation of early Oklahoma commercial history. Union Bus Station could be listed on the National Register of Historic Places.”

The 499 Sheridan structures are being designed by Jon Pickard of Pickard Chilton architecture firm. The company designed the Devon Energy Center, and Devon Energy Corp. has already confirmed it will place offices in the new tower. During the DDRC meeting, Pickard said several elements from the old buildings will be used in the new structure, including blue tile from the Union Bus Station.

“That’s not historic preservation,” Pettyjohn said. “We applaud the effort. They realized the historic significance of the buildings, but saving some of the friezes and incorporating the tiles – that’s not historic preservation.”

He said the organization is also disappointed that buildings would be removed to make way for parking structures.

The Oklahoma City Foundation for Architecture will protest razing the buildings as well, but it has not formed an official statement yet.

Need to get the ULI involved, as they have the most cache in town.

[HOT ROD]

This would ALL END if Hines/Larry N would just build the darn thing on Main Street and Hudson. Put the garage partially below ground and several floors above, retail on the first one or two levels; and stick the skyscraper on top (bringing a total of 40 floors/600+ feet). Angle the skyscraper to create that frontage Pichard Chilton was talking about (???) and let Devon have their skybridge.

This would resolve ALL concerns of the DDRC, Devon gets their expansion, BOK gets their even more prominent highrise location, AND at the same time allows retention of the Hotel Black, the Auto Hotel, and the Bus station - the likely three buildings people most care about saving. .... Easy Peasy, right?, and likely cheaper overall since Hines/Preftakes could still develop the Sheridan frontage between Hotel black and the bus station (as say, residential and/or hotel) or sell and let somebody else do it. With this plan, EVERYBODY WINS, especially Oklahoma City!

[Pete]

Need to get the ULI involved, as they have the most cache in town.

For most their members, this would be politically unsavory considering who they would be going up against.

[Spartan]

Exactly. That's the difference for which these groups exist, and ULI has been turning away from NAREB and toward a more community-focused approach for years. ULI's elsewhere do this for their community and make a difference.

The way to get good development is by not allowing bad development. That's a direct Ed McMahon quote when he came and spoke at our Columbus chapter.

[soondoc]

This would ALL END if Hines/Larry N would just build the darn thing on Main Street and Hudson. Put the garage partially below ground and several floors above, retail on the first one or two levels; and stick the skyscraper on top (bringing a total of 40 floors/600+ feet). Angle the skyscraper to create that frontage Pichard Chilton was talking about (???) and let Devon have their skybridge.

This would resolve ALL concerns of the DDRC, Devon gets their expansion, BOK gets their even more prominent highrise location, AND at the same time allows retention of the Hotel Black, the Auto Hotel, and the Bus station - the likely three buildings people most care about saving. .... Easy Peasy, right?, and likely cheaper overall since Hines/Preftakes could still develop the Sheridan frontage between Hotel black and the bus station (as say, residential and/or hotel) or sell and let somebody else do it. With this plan, EVERYBODY WINS, especially Oklahoma City!

That is a very good post and I agree 100 percent. Can that be forwarded to someone that can get it in front of the right people? Perhaps they would agree that this idea would be better for all parties involved and its a win-win for OKC in general.

[NWOKCGuy]

I get wanting to save Hotel Black but what's the significance of the motor hotel and bus station? Do I remember correctly that floor heights in the motor hotel are very low and you can barely fit modern sized trucks/suvs? What's the end goal? To have them completely gut but keep the shell?

[bchris02]

I get wanting to save Hotel Black but what's the significance of the motor hotel and bus station? Do I remember correctly that floor heights in the motor hotel are very low and you can barely fit modern sized trucks/suvs? What's the end goal? To have them completely gut but keep the shell?

Motor Hotel would be perfect as loft housing. The bus station would be a great location for a unique restaurant unlike anything else currently in OKC. If I am not mistaking there has actually been some interest in making that happen. Nonetheless, I think preservationists, instead of trying to save the entire block, need to pick what is the most important and focus on that. Is it the bus station? Hotel Black? Motor Hotel?

[shawnw]

At this point, as sad as it sounds, if we could save just one -- any one -- of those three buildings, I'd have to call that a "win".

[Pete]

I get wanting to save Hotel Black but what's the significance of the motor hotel and bus station? Do I remember correctly that floor heights in the motor hotel are very low and you can barely fit modern sized trucks/suvs? What's the end goal? To have them completely gut but keep the shell?

Many if not most historic buildings are renovated into a completely different purpose: Colcord, Plow, Mideke, Pontiac Building, Packard Building, Guardian, Fred Jones Plant.. Almost everything in Bricktown.

It could easily be renovated into office, housing, or hotel, or possible modern parking with some modifications. Or some parking on the bottom and residences/office/hotel on top.

[hoya]

The saddest part is that the Hotel Black could be saved by simply eliminating empty space in the design. They could eliminate the angle that the new building sits on the property and suddenly there's enough room for the Hotel Black. No problems at all.

[JoninATX]

The tower itself isn't bad, it reminds me of a newly constructed tower that just recently opened in downtown Austin. But one thing I don't like is for them is to destroy those older red brick buildings they have currently sitting.

[Spartan]

The saddest part is that the Hotel Black could be saved by simply eliminating empty space in the design. They could eliminate the angle that the new building sits on the property and suddenly there's enough room for the Hotel Black. No problems at all.

This is about ego - they want to sit right on top of all sides of the Myriad Gardens. There can be nothing in their way.

[TheTravellers]

This is about ego - they want to sit right on top of all sides of the Myriad Gardens. There can be nothing in their way.

'My name is Larry Nichols, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'