Oklahoma Turnpike Authority

[stlokc]

I don't have a dog in this fight. But if this highway will siphon off cross-country travelers that might otherwise stop in Norman and get gas, a bite to eat, etc. than I can see why the City Council may be against it. My guess is it will, at the margins, negatively impact businesses and tax receipts.

As an OKC partisan that loves the look of the skyline, especially now, it makes me at least a little bit sad that a lot of travelers will now only be exposed to rural expanses as they traverse the metro area. A small thing.

[Jersey Boss]

it would sure improve my quality of life.

Hey no doubt it will improve some lives. It won't impact my life one way or the other. I was just sharing what I hear in the parking lot after a ride and drinking a beer or two.

[Snowman]

I don't have a dog in this fight. But if this highway will siphon off cross-country travelers that might otherwise stop in Norman and get gas, a bite to eat, etc. than I can see why the City Council may be against it. My guess is it will, at the margins, negatively impact businesses and tax receipts.

As an OKC partisan that loves the look of the skyline, especially now, it makes me at least a little bit sad that a lot of travelers will now only be exposed to rural expanses as they traverse the metro area. A small thing.

While that makes sense for small towns where there are more travelers stopping than those shops have local customers. However it seems like there is at least two reasons that cross-country traveler argument would not be correct in this case.

First due to the N/S segment being much closer to Norman, than it is OKC, it seems it will likely to develop the kind of suburban density that is in most of Norman eventually, while it still is an open question if that will happen along the existing Kickapoo turnpike. So Norman would then go from an option along ~20% of the routes between 35 entering/leaving it to/from where 44 enters/leaves OKC, to the primary if not only options along the turnpike route.

Second the amount of income growth for the city on north and east side that enables seems likely orders of magnitude higher than what there is from travelers stopping on the way through. Granted there is arguments about the ROI of suburban style growth patterns but the issues from that tend to be decades after the current city leaders will be gone, while the biggest benefits could happen in their terms.

[jedicurt]

Makes me wonder if improved access is the actual complaint here.

this is exactly what i think as well. those in my friend group who are opposed to it, have hinted that they don't like the idea that it will be much easier for people to use the lake. they mentioned about it getting popular and over crowded.

[Scott5114]

I don't have a dog in this fight. But if this highway will siphon off cross-country travelers that might otherwise stop in Norman and get gas, a bite to eat, etc. than I can see why the City Council may be against it. My guess is it will, at the margins, negatively impact businesses and tax receipts.

There aren't really a whole lot of places along I-35 in Norman that are convenient stops for travelers as it is now. Most of the gas stations and restaurants along that stretch are far enough away from the highway that a traveler passing through wouldn't see them from the road, and/or they would be inconvenient to get to and get back to the highway from. If I were a long-distance traveler passing through, I'd probably be more apt to make those stops in either OKC proper or Goldsby, just because it's easier.

[MagzOK]

There aren't really a whole lot of places along I-35 in Norman that are convenient stops for travelers as it is now. Most of the gas stations and restaurants along that stretch are far enough away from the highway that a traveler passing through wouldn't see them from the road, and/or they would be inconvenient to get to and get back to the highway from. If I were a long-distance traveler passing through, I'd probably be more apt to make those stops in either OKC proper or Goldsby, just because it's easier.

I35 itself through Norman is great as long as you're just driving through, however Norman traffic on Robinson, Main, Tecumseh though that area is awful. When they widened it years ago, they should have dug out 35 from between just north of HWY 9 to at least north of Robinson thus allowing for Main and Robinson to go over the interstate at ground level with service roads up top. See US75 Central Expressway in Dallas from about just north of downtown to about NW Highway. ODOT should have done this through Moore as well. Norman exits will only get worse like 19th St in Moore which is a train wreck through there! Just awful, awful planning and execution.

This is why I hope that OTA, when they build their pikes through here -- especially the east/west route over to 44 -- they build a facility complete with service roads. I hope they don't just build it two lane, rural style, as I like to call it.

I know, I know. All it takes is money.

[mugofbeer]

I35 itself through Norman is great as long as you're just driving through, however Norman traffic on Robinson, Main, Tecumseh though that area is awful. When they widened it years ago, they should have dug out 35 from between just north of HWY 9 to at least north of Robinson thus allowing for Main and Robinson to go over the interstate at ground level with service roads up top. See US75 Central Expressway in Dallas from about just north of downtown to about NW Highway. ODOT should have done this through Moore as well. Norman exits will only get worse like 19th St in Moore which is a train wreck through there! Just awful, awful planning and execution.

This is why I hope that OTA, when they build their pikes through here -- especially the east/west route over to 44 -- they build a facility complete with service roads. I hope they don't just build it two lane, rural style, as I like to call it.

I know, I know. All it takes is money.

It's not all a money issue. OK HAS to get away from this obsession with two way access roads. Those went out in the 1970s.

[MagzOK]

It's not all a money issue. OK HAS to get away from this obsession with two way access roads. Those went out in the 1970s.

Absolutely right! I meant to add that to my statement all it takes is money AND decent planning. LOL

However ODOT already knows one-way service roads -- look at I240, the Broadway Extension, etc. And they have that project in Edmond where they're going to do that along I35.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I was trying to dig up some information on the 1999 proposal from ODOT and OTA to have a "loop" around OKC. It was apparently fought against pretty hard and failed. Just can't find a lot of info.

[scottk]

I was trying to dig up some information on the 1999 proposal from ODOT and OTA to have a "loop" around OKC. It was apparently fought against pretty hard and failed. Just can't find a lot of info.

Maybe this?
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...n/62241285007/

[FighttheGoodFight]

Yes! I found the Norman transcript did what I was working on as well! Combined all the old news articles about the battle of the Outer Loop in 98-99.

https://www.normantranscript.com/new...99149.amp.html

[dford2]

The number one issue is safety, the proposed turnpikes would no doubt make I-35 a safer Highway.

On a side note, I find it somewhat humorous when I hear a few talk about how the land they have, has been in the family since Statehood. How did they get it, they took it from the Native Americans with no compensation given.

[BoulderSooner]

The number one issue is safety, the proposed turnpikes would no doubt make I-35 a safer Highway.

On a side note, I find it somewhat humorous when I hear a few talk about how the land they have, has been in the family since Statehood. How did they get it, they took it from the Native Americans with no compensation given.

that is not what happened

[golden_gatorcane]

I'm curious on the potential benefit of the extended freeways/turnpikes for OU games. Having grown up in Tulsa and frequented OU football games, getting in/out via I-35 was always a slow-paced adventure. Being able to take the Kickapoo to/from SH-9 looks like it should be able to speed up the trip for anyone looking to bypass the regular OKC traffic.

[Jersey Boss]

Yes! I found the Norman transcript did what I was working on as well! Combined all the old news articles about the battle of the Outer Loop in 98-99.

https://www.normantranscript.com/new...99149.amp.html

It appears that OTA learned to bite off pieces at a time to dilute the opposition.

[MagzOK]

If Norman really doesn't want it, just push it out past Thunderbird and bring it through the edge of Pink as to help Pink grow into a nice suburb with a nice big QT or OnCue at the exit to spur economic development and tax revenue for the tiny community. But I have a feeling it's just going to be built no matter the opposition just like the Kickapoo. This outer loop was needed over 20 years ago, and it's even more needed now!

[Bellaboo]

I'd say terminate it at Indian Hills road and then cut back to I-35. Skip the east side of Norman altogether.

[BoulderSooner]

I'd say terminate it at Indian Hills road and then cut back to I-35. Skip the east side of Norman altogether.

On of the entire points is to be able to skip the metro and have another way across the river south of Norman.

[Bellaboo]

On of the entire points is to be able to skip the metro and have another way across the river south of Norman.

Yes, to move the truck traffic off of I-35 and anyone else heading Northeast. On the flip side, this would at least alleviate that traffic on I-35 from Moore and on Northward through the metro.

[macfoucin]

Interesting OTA meeting yesterday. Lots of noise around the Norman area proposal.

[bombermwc]

I feel for anyone that is going to lose their home in this, just like with any project like this. But honestly, I don't think the state or OTA care at all. They knew exactly what they were doing when they drew the plans, so it's not like they just realized that these homes were targeted. We'll see them letting the residents vent for a while, and then they'll pull the trigger. They'll be some sort of lawsuit filed (that the residents lose), we'll delay 5 extra years from all of that, but in the end it will get done. I don't mean to be cynical, but I'm not sure what kind of change these folks think they are going to effect.

[SEMIweather]

I feel for anyone that is going to lose their home in this, just like with any project like this. But honestly, I don't think the state or OTA care at all. They knew exactly what they were doing when they drew the plans, so it's not like they just realized that these homes were targeted. We'll see them letting the residents vent for a while, and then they'll pull the trigger. They'll be some sort of lawsuit filed (that the residents lose), we'll delay 5 extra years from all of that, but in the end it will get done. I don't mean to be cynical, but I'm not sure what kind of change these folks think they are going to effect.

This pretty well reflects my POV.

[Jersey Boss]

Interesting that the Oklahoma GOP platform for 2020 states the party is against the use of eminent domain for the construction of toll roads.

[Midtowner]

If you hit the Google wayback machine, you can find defunct "Stop the OTA!!!" sites for every single expansion. It's basically a fait accompli. Soon, there will be solicitations and meetings from trial lawyers who are going to help landowners get top dollar for their land. That's all you can really do at this point.

[Laramie]

If you hit the Google wayback machine, you can find defunct "Stop the OTA!!!" sites for every single expansion. It's basically a fait accompli. Soon, there will be solicitations and meetings from trial lawyers who are going to help landowners get top dollar for their land. That's all you can really do at this point.

Very well stated Midtowner, that's the bottom line. When those attorneys knock at your door it's all about $DOUGH$ and how to make the green bread rise.