Lindsey Street

[BoulderSooner]

You are dead wrong and guess what, we have thousands of miles of road in this world to make our point. If you've just not seen it, that's okay. But apparently most of us have.

I've responded to hundreds of MVA/medical calls using two lane roads. They work just fine.

he is or the norman city staff is?

[Geographer]

he is or the norman city staff is?

Both.

The good news? At least 3-4 city councilmen have their heads in the right place.

[ou48A]

Just curious, before the vote did the City of Norman specifically say how they were going to redo Lindsey St or was there anything in the ballot language addressing the design?

Lindsey Street Widening Final Render - YouTube


I'm pretty sure that this youtube shows what most folks thought they were voting on.
There are no roundabouts in this video

[ou48A]

You are dead wrong and guess what, we have thousands of miles of road in this world to make our point. If you've just not seen it, that's okay. But apparently most of us have.

I've responded to hundreds of MVA/medical calls using two lane roads. They work just fine.

No,,, expert fire officials from Norman say you are wrong and that roundabout are not a solution for Lindsey Street. They would know more about there needs than you!

[Geographer]

No,,, expert fire officials from Norman say you are wrong and that roundabout are not a solution for Lindsey Street. They would know more about there needs than you!

I literally could not stop laughing and quite reading this comment after you said expert fire officials. Now that's funny.

[ou48A]

People are trying to connect apples and oranges here.

Facts:
-Roundabouts decrease injury crashes.
-Roundabouts and medians don't necessarily cause "slower" response times. (See Carmel, IN)...I suspect they're just saying this because they aren't familiar with it. It happens
-Yes, Lindsey is currently unreliable BUT ITS BECAUSE THERE ARE TOO MANY TRAFFIC LIGHTS AND THIS CAUSES BACK UPS.
-The newly proposed design solves all of those problems.
-If we go with the original design, the street will still not be as safe as it could be with roundabouts. That's just the facts. Like you have said, it's a public safety issue. If you want to decrease overall crashes (and especially injury crashes) then put in roundabouts. Simple.

Also, you will NOT convince me that the current fire response time on Lindsey is better than what the roundabout time would be. I don't see why they're arguing that a roundabout would cause slower response times

Actually the city of Norman fire people disagrees with you too.
There is know-way that you or anyone else posting here knows their needs better than they do!

[Geographer]

Actually the city of Norman fire people disagrees with you too.
There is know-way that you or anyone else posting here knows their needs better than they do!

So basically, you're just blindly trusting people who follow old, outdated code books? Okay cool bro.

I guess it's okay to just blindly follow people without being informed about anything yourself.

[ou48A]

I literally could not stop laughing and quite reading this comment after you said expert fire officials. Now that's funny.

But never the less its still very true. They know their needs best.
I could be wrong but I doubt that the city council throws them and what they think under the bus.

[ou48A]

So basically, you're just blindly trusting people who follow old, outdated code books? Okay cool bro.

I guess it's okay to just blindly follow people without being informed about anything yourself.

Its more than the city of Norman officials that know that roundabouts and 1 lane in each direct are not the solution in all cases.
Now, to not know that, is what is blind.


PS:Oh, and please tell us more about your accusation of the Norman fire department following outdated code books?

[Geographer]

But never the less its still very true. They know their needs best.
I could be wrong but I doubt that the city council throws them and what they think under the bus.

Do you not trust the expert street designers (Burden's team) that came in and designed a street that's similar to the work that they're been doing their whole lives?

[venture]

Actually the city of Norman fire people disagrees with you too.
There is know-way that you or anyone else posting here knows their needs better than they do!

You still haven't answered my question. Why are you just now trumpeting the safety concerns if they are so major? Why wait until the last minute before it appears council is ready to approve the roundabout design to start launching mass protests? You've gone from saying OU football traffic is the major concern and now this.

You've also COMPLETELY discounted the rest of the story for only 2 lines. How do you respond to the Carmel, IN situation where their fire chief was against roundabouts but now supports them since heir response times are better and there are fewer accidents.

[venture]

But never the less its still very true. They know their needs best.
I could be wrong but I doubt that the city council throws them and what they think under the bus.

If they had their way, every road would be 4 lanes so their trucks could fit down, but that is just not feasible. Though I'm sure you would be the first to volunteer your street to be widened. Correct?

[venture]

Its more than the city of Norman officials that know that roundabouts and 1 lane in each direct are not the solution in all cases.
Now, to not know that, is what is blind.


PS:Oh, and please tell us more about your accusation of the Norman fire department following outdated code books?

City of Norman officials have experience building...one...roundabout. I'm not really sure they have the knowledge and experience to make the call. That is why outside experts...experts were brought in to assist. It is also why the contractor on the project still supports a roundabout on at least the Berry/Lindsey intersection - as well as the various intersections from Berry to campus - or did you block that part out?

[warreng88]

I have been reading this thread for several days and the immaturity and sarcasm make me laugh. This whole conversation reminds me of when LowRyter was complaining about how unsafe the exit off the new I-40 to NB Penn was. Here is where the funny part of the conversation starts (post 1310) for anyone who wants to go back and laugh at it: http://www.okctalk.com/transportatio...pdates-53.html

[ou48A]

Do you not trust the expert street designers (Burden's team) that came in and designed a street that's similar to the work that they're been doing their whole lives?

To a degree but I trust the people who would be dealing with the situation every day more and who have taken the time to study the issue from their point of veiw. Their recommendations trump the guy they brought in to talk and most everybody except the roundabouters understand this.
Are you really willing to risk lives?

[Geographer]

To a degree but I trust the people who would be dealing with the situation every day more and who have taken the time to study the issue from their point of veiw. Their recommendations trump the guy they brought in to talk and most everybody except the roundabouters understand this.
Are you really willing to risk lives?

LOL. I've had enough of this thread. You're seriously asking me if I am really willing to risk lives? C'mon man. I've presented you with facts about how much safer roundabouts are how much they decrease injury crashes and crashes in general. I don't know what else to say. I'm done.

[ou48A]

You still haven't answered my question. Why are you just now trumpeting the safety concerns if they are so major? Why wait until the last minute before it appears council is ready to approve the roundabout design to start launching mass protests? You've gone from saying OU football traffic is the major concern and now this.

You've also COMPLETELY discounted the rest of the story for only 2 lines. How do you respond to the Carmel, IN situation where their fire chief was against roundabouts but now supports them since heir response times are better and there are fewer accidents.

I have been talking about for a very long time and at times with city of Norman officials.
I thought I told you that already.


The Carmel In fire department doesn't live in Norman and know what we need.. What they say should have no Bering about what happens in Norman OK

[BoulderSooner]

serious ? west Lindsey street currently carries over 20k cars a day average 2 lane roads with roundabouts can handle 20-25k cars ...

why would Norman rebuild a road to barely handle current traffic .... not even including event traffic?

[venture]

To a degree but I trust the people who would be dealing with the situation every day more and who have taken the time to study the issue from their point of veiw. Their recommendations trump the guy they brought in to talk and most everybody except the roundabouters understand this.
Are you really willing to risk lives?

Oh so you have first hand knowledge of what they studied, awesome. Please share with us what they have looked at.

Also...willing to risk lives. Last I checked roundabouts reduce accidents significantly, so did you block out those statistics too?

[venture]

serious ? west Lindsey street currently carries over 20k cars a day average 2 lane roads with roundabouts can handle 20-25k cars ...

why would Norman rebuild a road to barely handle current traffic .... not even including event traffic?

Well which traffic forecasts do you go with to prepare for the future? Traffic has been in a steady decline for 10 years on Lindsey. Also event traffic 6 times out of the year shouldn't justify the remaining 359...we've been down this path already and put that silly notion to bed.

[ou48A]

LOL. I've had enough of this thread. You're seriously asking me if I am really willing to risk lives? C'mon man. I've presented you with facts about how much safer roundabouts are how much they decrease injury crashes and crashes in general. I don't know what else to say. I'm done.

And I have present you and others with linked facts and informed opinions that say you are wrong and that your ideas about Lindsey street would slow emergency response times, thus costing lives and property.

I started out rather neutral on the idea of roundabouts but now that serious concerns have been raised there is no way they should be built. They were not even part of the plan that was voted on..There is another side to this that you and several others just refuse to look at.



And please, what about those code books

[venture]

I have been talking about for a very long time and at times with city of Norman officials.
I thought I told you that already.

The Carmel In fire department doesn't live in Norman and know what we need.. What they say should have no Bering about what happens in Norman OK

So you've been talking about it a long time, with some Norman official, yet you never bring it up until just now. If it was such a concern for you I would think you would have brought it up on your own and not wait for the Transcript to run a story.

While Carmel and Norman are different cities, they provide a model that we can work off of and adapt to our own needs. You know...like how most project concepts are done. So we should completely ignore ANY outside examples and just go with the force for our own solutions? I fail to see the logic in that.

[venture]

And I have present you and others with linked facts and informed opinions that say you are wrong and that your ideas about Lindsey street would slow emergency response times, thus costing lives and property.

I started out rather neutral on the idea of roundabouts but now that serious concerns have been raised there is no way they should be built. They were not even part of the plan that was voted on..There is another side to this that you and several others just refuse to look at.

And please, what about those coed books

But that report wasn't done in Norman, OK so why should that have any bearing on what happens here? Sound familiar?

[ou48A]

But that report wasn't done in Norman, OK so why should that have any bearing on what happens here? Sound familiar?

Informed city of Norman people know what will work best for Norman needs.
And they disagree with you too!

[venture]

Informed city of Norman people know what will work best for Norman needs.
And they disagree with you too!

You are avoiding the questions. Please justify your response on why a study of one area cannot be used for Norman, yet another can be.