Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[CitySlickR]

mkjeeves pics worth a thousand words. Far past time to start conserving water. If we don't we'll be next on the list of towns without water.

[MarkAFuqua]

Regardless of whatever my tone may be (and I was being serious about the Google Earth view), you have no right to assume that all of us here in OKC don't give a crap about your situation. You people started businesses in association with a lake that was created for flood control, contracted out to Enid, which chose not to use their water rights and then taken over by OKC. In all that time, was it not known by you that this day may come to pass? Was it not known by you that when you and your friends chose to base your lives off of the lake that there was a possibility that the largest city in the state could empty it? I mean, who's to blame?? Don't give us the guilt trip. You guys are the ones that chose the path you're on.

Again, you come with more arguing and no empathy, I'm shocked. Not really... I can tell you are one of those who has to have the last word in an argument, so when I am done with this post you can comment and I won't answer and you can win. I am just spreading the word about the situation and will continue to do so, but I won't keep arguing with you. Have a great day.

I never said I "assume all" in the city don't "give a crap" I said most of the good people of OKC don't know the severity of the situation on our end in NW OK. They have never been told. I stated that is why I am here to share the story. We may not be able to stop this release, but hoping that letting people know about the situation and how serious it is, and how it will adversely affect our region and ultimately the 200K in NW OKC who depend on Canton Lake water, could lead to some voluntary conservation that may save us all some grief in the future. It may be too late now for this release, but I'm not giving up hope on the future. I can already tell the majority of folks in this thread are more aware of it, and all the FACTS that surround this issue and not just what the media is telling down there. This is not a battle between the people of NW OK and the people of OKC. We are all people of Oklahoma. (pretty sure I have typed some of this before...)

I have never argued one time that the people who built a business around this lake took no risk in doing so due to the contract for the water in it. I have only stated that if the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust officials who get paid quite well to provide water for the residents of OKC, had been doing their job and paying attention to this drought and had let the people of OKC know that there was impending trouble on the horizon, then this didn't have to happen to my fellow business owners now. It may have eventually happened in the future, but it certainly could have been avoided at this time by some conservation on the part of the people in the city. Again keeping in mind, this very conservation would have helped the people in the city as well in the long run. If it rains a bunch in the western part of the state this spring, and or between here and there all of this will seem that I was melodramatic, if it doesn't it is going to be sad days for all of us here and there.

I never raised hell in the media or blew up blogs when the city took water in the past because I knew that is why they pay their contract and it's their "right" to take the water and we adjust out here and move on. This release is very different in the fact that it could have major long term catastrophic effects on the body of water itself including killing all the fish in it. So we are talking many years of recovery not just one. If it were a normal year with normal rain fall predicted you probably would have never heard from me, but it's anything but. This drought pattern has been, and and is predicted to be in place for quite some time. The OCWUT has failed the people of Western OK and perhaps the people of NW OKC by their lack of planning for alternative water and also, their lack of education on this issue and conservation.

[MarkAFuqua]

I wonder how deep that "river" of water is leading to the dam. Canton doesn't seem like your the typical lake. Im use to the deepest part being right at the dam.

Edit: Probably shouldn't have put quotes around river. Its the North Canadian river.

The channel is right around 13ft. at the dam gates if I remember correctly from my conversation with our lead Corp Personnel. It varies some as you work your way back across the lake to the mouth of the river. Like I was saying in an earlier post, the channel coming up to the gates will be what allows the water to get there, otherwise the deep body of water along the dam would probably land bridge off before the 30K acre feet could make it to the outlet. We have deep water along the dam as well as some deep water on the west side of the lake along the red bluffs. (not sure if you noticed those or not) my hope is that they don't become separated by land causing two completely different bodies of water as there are some major sand ridges that run the length of the lake. In my mind this would make it even harder for the fish to survive. Thank you so much for taking the time to look at the lake and for sharing your photos.

[Just the facts]

Canton built a local economy on water in a lake. OKC built a lifestyle on water that doesn't exist anywhere. That pretty much sums it up.

[law]

You people started businesses in association with a lake that was created for flood control, contracted out to Enid, which chose not to use their water rights and then taken over by OKC. In all that time, was it not known by you that this day may come to pass? Was it not known by you that when you and your friends chose to base your lives off of the lake that there was a possibility that the largest city in the state could empty it? I mean, who's to blame?? Don't give us the guilt trip. You guys are the ones that chose the path you're on.

If that was true, no one would have built in OKC…tornado alley, in California…earthquakes, the gulf coast…hurricanes, the mountains…blizzards, and so on, every place in the world has natural disasters to deal with. This is a natural disaster enhanced by people in power, who refused to explain the situation to the public at large. I truly believe we could have given the lake a chance without harming OKC.

In case you haven't yet seen the Gazette article…Oklahoma Gazette News: Water from Canton Lake

One of the things that made Oklahoma special was small town friendliness, even in our cities. Our customers would come from New York, Chicago, Dallas, LA, London, and many other places. They were always overwhelmed with our welcoming attitude. They were shocked when locals spoke to them on the street, offered to help, were polite, or smiled at them. One of our customers went for an early run, and came back talking about some guy in a truck. He met the same guy twice. He wanted to know why the guy dissed him? Flipped him off? I couldn't help but laugh. That guy in the truck was a farmer going to morning coffee with the guys. He was saying hello.

In the past, what was good for Canton Lake was also good for OKC. That seems to be changing. Now, for many in power what is good for OKC is good for OKC. Almost all residents in OKC had no reason to question the water situation. Hopefully, they will begin to now.

It will be a sad day when Oklahoma is only an I-35 and I-44 metro corridor.

Canton built a local economy on water in a lake. OKC built a lifestyle on water that doesn't exist anywhere. That pretty much sums it up.

Thanks, Just the facts, I couldn't have said it any better.

[Praedura]

Recent shot of Lake Hefner:



Photo by Marvin Bredel


eek

[OKCisOK4me]

Man made lake = natural disaster? Get outta here, lol.

Natural is a feature of the earth that was there before mankind altered it. If this were a natural disaster, we would be discussing the stealing of your valley of water.

No.

Army Corps of Engineers built a dam thus creating a man made lake...which kills your natural disaster metaphor.

[law]

Man made lake = natural disaster? Get outta here, lol.

Natural is a feature of the earth that was there before mankind altered it. If this were a natural disaster, we would be discussing the stealing of your valley of water.

No.

Army Corps of Engineers built a dam thus creating a man made lake...which kills your natural disaster metaphor.

Drought is a natural disaster. Even OKC is in an extreme drought.

[ou48A]

Think where OKC and our state would be had we not seen so many lakes built in Oklahoma….?



We could probably stand to build a few more dams in Oklahoma.......
but today’s environmental movement makes building major new dams virtually impossible!

[OKCisOK4me]

I think it was something like the summer of 2006 or 7 that Lake Travis just north and west of Austin, TX, was almost empty due to a drought down there. Then one day they received something like 19" of rain. I really do hope something like that happens around Seiling and points north and west. A damn good soaker, on the level of a tropical depression like the one we had back on August, 18, 2007. Unfortunately, I doubt you can wait that long, so I do hope Spring rains are abundant in that part of the state. I'll be rooting for the jet stream to work its magic and I will hope that the gulf stream moisture will not be cut off.

Drought is a natural disaster. Even OKC is in an extreme drought.

Ahhh, there you go. You didn't mention that. But I guess you really didn't have to considering the City of OKC's large draw from your recreational lake is due to this drought. By all means, y'all are more than welcome to come down to Lake Hefner and fish, sail, jog, walk, ride a bike or even learn to wind surf. It's very popular. How's that for hospitality?

[Just the facts]

We could probably stand to build a few more dams in Oklahoma.......
but today’s environmental movement makes building major new dams virtually impossible!

What are you going to fill all these new lakes with?

[jn1780]

What are you going to fill all these new lakes with?

Lets build a dam upstream on the Canadian river. Oh wait.... Lol

[mkjeeves]

What are you going to fill all these new lakes with?

fracturing fluid

[ou48A]

What are you going to fill all these new lakes with?

It’s going to rain again….. it always does.

[ou48A]

fracturing fluid

Actually some of the new fracturing fluids are about 99% water and about 1% food ingredients….. some gets recycled, some is cleaned up to near drinking water standards before being discharging…. and there are waterless fracing methods.

[RadicalModerate]

Let's go "Back to/for The Future"!!!
Death to Watering Pet Lawns!
they aren't edible

(carry on . . .)
(don't forget xeriscaping . . .)

I have seen the faces of the dwellers on the former shores of Canton Lake.
They were polite . . . They were not happy faces.

Suggested re-Reading (other than previous posts =)
Stranger in a Strange Land
Dune
T. Boone Pickens (on "aquifer management")

[Dale Birchett]

I have to disagree. The environmental movement merely wants all of the facts and ramifications of any environmental change to be investigated, brought to light, and discussed in an open and civil manner before the changes are made.

Fortunately many Oklahomans who consider themselves to be friends of the environment have fought for many years to keep our state legislature from selling our water to Texas despite intense lobbying pressure from south of the Red River. Had we not had our environmental concerns you wouldn't have to worry about building dams because we wouldn't have had any water to impound.

By the way, you should read the reports on the deteriorating condition of our country's existing dams. Why build new ones if we are just going to let the things rot. Just another concern for the environmental movement.

[MarkAFuqua]

Use OKC's Water Wisely. Squeeze More from Every Drop.

I wish this website would have been on the news a lot the last couple of years....

Could have really changed some things for the better for a lot of folks.

[C_M_25]

So, is anybody going to do any gardening this year? Xeriscaping?

[BBatesokc]

So, is anybody going to do any gardening this year? Xeriscaping?

On well water - gonna plant a big garden this year.

[Just the facts]

By the way, you should read the reports on the deteriorating condition of our country's existing dams. Why build new ones if we are just going to let the things rot. Just another concern for the environmental movement.

I've been saying this for awhile now. We simply can't afford our lifestyle. A lot of people are in for a rude awakening. We have spent trillions building stuff and now we can't afford to fix most of it. Funny thing - buying stuff on credit. When stuff breaks and you still have to pay for it AND buy the replacement it puts a damper on things.

[mkjeeves]

Funny you should mention that, there's mega construction going on at Canton. (Side note...I wonder how much that federal money has helped Canton and the local economy? I also wonder if the lake would have to have been drawn down for the repairs, as is typical, or if will have to be drawn down in the next few years for construction, assuming it fills back up at some point.)

October 7, 2009
Construction project ongoing at Canton Lake

While there are signs of progress at Canton Lake, the first phase of improvements is about a year away from completion.

A 7-year long, multi-phase, multi-million dollar construction project, initiated by the Tulsa District Corps of Engineers, began at the lake in 2008.

“We’re about a year into the first of four phases of the construction. We’re pretty close to being on time and about where we need to be,” said Resident Engineer Jerry Grosz.

Extensive dam safety studies conducted over several years have revealed that Canton Lake Dam needs to be upgraded in order to continue to provide reliable flood protection.

As part of the dam upgrade, damage will be repaired that was caused over the years and by floods in 2007.

There will also be a number of upgrades made to other areas of the lake.

In addition to improving the main office, campgrounds, roads, parking lots, shoreline and boat ramps, the primary emphasis of the construction is on a new spillway that is being built.

The new auxiliary fuse-gated spillway and channel will be constructed south of the existing spillway between the overlook area and the project office.

The new spillway will allow for more water to be released in the event of a maximum flood. The old spillway will remain intact and continue to function as well.

A highway bridge will be constructed across the new 480-foot wide channel, maintaining State Highway 58A access across Canton Dam.

Visitors can expect various detours around the area. To find out more about these detours, contact the lake office at (580) 886-2989.

Although most of the camping and recreational areas will continue to be open, the Big Bend and Blaine Park camping areas were closed as of Oct. 1. The two areas are expected to remain closed until April 1, 2010.

However, Park Ranger Tim Coffey said "there will be plenty of room for anyone who would like to camp."

"The Canadian campground will leave both A and B areas open during the month of October to accommodate campers. Most years, the B area in Canadian is closed as of Oct. 1 to save on operating cost during the slower fall recreation season,” he said.

Even though fall is a slower season, Coffey noted that “deer archery season opened Oct. 1 and we do have some hunters that camp in our campgrounds who are out here for the hunting area that surrounds us.”

Canton Lake offers various outdoor recreational activities for the entire family. Every year people enjoy hunting, fishing, boating, swimming, camping and much more that the lake offers.

Known for its fishing, Canton Lake provides several species of fish, including crappie, white bass, hybrid bass, channel catfish, and largemouth bass. Canton is most widely known for an abundance of walleye and hosts annual “Walleye Rodeo” during the month of May.

Oklahomans have enjoyed the park for generations and with the new improvements its popularity will be sure to endure.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is working on other improvement projects at several lakes in the Tulsa District, which encompasses all of Oklahoma, the southern half of Kansas, as well as Lake Texoma and Pat Mayse Lake in Texas.

Woodward News

[Just the facts]

So do the OKC water customers see the price of this reflected in their bill?

[mkjeeves]

So do the OKC water customers see the price of this reflected in their bill?

I didn't see water use listed as any of the reasons they are working on the dam. It talks primarily about flood control and recreation. Should OKC water users pay for flood control and recreation?

[Dubya61]

I didn't see water use listed as any of the reasons they are working on the dam. It talks primarily about flood control and recreation. Should OKC water users pay for flood control and recreation?

Are they some of the users of this lake? Yes.
Does work on the dam allow water to stay in the lake? Yes
Should OKC water users pay for work on the dam? Yes