OKC/Will Rogers Air Service Discussion

[SkyWestOKC]

Intl. service, Hawaii, or a new aircraft type is all I would consider "major" news for Southwest. I think, as with most of these things, it is overstated. It is most likely a new city or an announcement to connect some of the dots.

[venture]

They were planning to code-share with Westjet in Canada, but that fell through and Westjet has gone with Delta. Southwest is really reaching the limit of their original business model. Some of the new cities announced are putting them into 2nd/3rd tier markets with overlapping catchment areas. I agree its probably just a new city or some more dot connecting. Of course that usually comes with the elimination of twice as many flights that never make the press. LOL

[SkyWestOKC]

I've been bored for the past hour, so I have some new food for you (anyone).

I've ran the numbers, here are some stats for tomorrow, which will be what I use to compute total load factors when the June stats come out (July/August).

Airline; # of departures; total number of outbound (Departing) seats [includes regional dba's]

Southwest; 20; 2,740
American; 15; 1,224
Delta; 18; 1,146
United; 13 ; 926
Continental; 8; 507
Frontier; 4; 295

Total of 78 departures, and 6,838 departing seats.

Some preliminary figures for departing load factor:

Using June 2008 data, which was an average month compared to the year before, seeing a 1.11% increase in departing passengers, the June 2010 load factor would be 89%.

Using June 2009 data, which was a very far below average month compared to June 2008, seeing a 7.83% decrease in departing passengers, the June 2010 load factor would be 82%.

Using somewhere in the middle, say about 175,000 departing passengers, which would equal an 86% load factor.

That is all estimated though and can't be determined in concrete form until the actual June 2010 data is available. I don't have any flight schedule info with the detail I am using (down to the exact seat) from April or May, so I can't estimate the LF's from those months.

The good news is the seats are selling, a trend is beginning to form of upward movement in passenger numbers. Also, 78 departures, there's no reason we won't break 80 departures again before the summer is over, as a few more frequencies start in July.

Continental currently flies the largest aircraft in here regularly, which is the Boeing 737-800 (157 seats), and occasionally the Boeing 737-900 (176 seats).

[redrunner]

This might be a silly question, but I'll be flying on Frontier for the first time to Denver next month. What can I expect the flight experience to be like when it comes to on-board services and flight attendant interaction? I'm so used to flying SW that I'm really curious what's in store for me on Frontier?

[ljbab728]

I don't disagree with your post. However, the drive to the airport is pretty much meaningless. For visitors, they want to be able to navigate through the airport, and they care most about the terminals. I get a lot of compliments from visitors about how nice the terminals are. I really doubt they care much about the drive to the airport, unless it is confusing (which, it is not). Granted, I haven't flown everywhere. But in my experience airports are not the most beautiful structures in the world. They are more function than form.

Try driving into an airport like LAX. It's totally ugly and all you can see are parking garages. Even DFW isn't much better driving in.

[venture]

This might be a silly question, but I'll be flying on Frontier for the first time to Denver next month. What can I expect the flight experience to be like when it comes to on-board services and flight attendant interaction? I'm so used to flying SW that I'm really curious what's in store for me on Frontier?

For July, you are either going to be on an Embraer ERJ-190 or ERJ-170 (see below). I don't think the Embraer fleet has the inflight TV service installed yet. However, I've always found them to be extremely friendly and reliable. If available, you can spend $15-25 at the airport to upgrade to "Stretch" seating at the airport. This takes you from the typical 31-32" seat pitch up to at least 36. I believe this is only available on the 190, so if you have a 170 it won't be there.

I doubt they'll offer any snack service to Denver, with it being so short, so in flight service will probably be pretty comparable to any short distance flight. I think it is really going to come down to the aircraft. The seats on the 170/190s are wider than most narrow body (737/A320/MD80) aircraft. The cabin will have probably have a bigger feel for you since it is only 2 x 2 seating, instead of 3 x 3.

190:


170:

[HOT ROD]

wow, the 738 and 739 are bigger than the A32X family. I didn't know that even though I used to work for Boeing (although in Corporate Finance however, lol).

I had thought United's A320's were OKC's biggest regular planes and that the A320 family were a bit bigger than the next gen's. OKC never really got regular service on 757's, yet it is the BIG BOY for single aisle planes and sort of a 'status symbol' in a way that you are a major city/market.

It's so sad that the 737X killed the 757. I remember doing some LEAN studies on the 757's empennage back in the day, to make the mfg process more cost efficient. I also had a hand in redesigning the Renton factory (737X and 757). I knew the next gen would kill the 757 but I never thought it would be almost as big (and bigger than the A320 family).

Anyways, Im glad we do have some large mainliners still coming to OKC and hope we continue to grow and get to annual 4M+ pax.

[SkyWestOKC]

The United Airbus A320 seats 140.

[SkyWestOKC]

OKC-Chicago O'Hare on American goes from 5x to 6x daily.

Bringing the total now to 11x daily. 5 on United, 6 on American. The new flight begins August 8.

Will be interesting to see how United reacts, if at all.

[Richard at Remax]

looking at southwest's map the cities that jump out to me they could add are charlotte, atlanta, wichita, des moines, cincy, and south carolina (hilton head maybe?)

[osu cowboy]

Try driving into an airport like LAX. It's totally ugly and all you can see are parking garages. Even DFW isn't much better driving in.

Had to drive to DFW to catch a flight to Seattle. Hadn't drove and parked down therefpr 20 years or so. Must of parked 2-4 miles or more from terminal. Of course there was a shuttle but man that place has changed

[SkyWestOKC]

I would like to correct a post. I miscounted, we have 75 flights a day in June on Average. By the middle of August, we will be sitting at about 77 flights a day (including the new AA frequency on ORD-OKC). The number of seats for June is correct though as I counted each individual flight. AA actually has 12 flights a day, not 15, for June.

[Spartan]

do you think they might start serving canadian cities? like toronto, vancouver, calgary, ect?

God I hope.

[Kokopelli]

To get flights from Canadian cities wouldn't WRWA have to have U.S. Customs service?

[SkyWestOKC]

They can do pre-clearance in certain Canadian airports. They clear customs in Canada before boarding.

[venture]

looking at southwest's map the cities that jump out to me they could add are charlotte, atlanta, wichita, des moines, cincy, and south carolina (hilton head maybe?)

Southwest announced a couple weeks ago that they are going to start flying to harleston and Greenville-Spartanburg. Of course Southwest said it had nothing to do with it, but the state of South Carolina is giving them $15 million to launch the service.

[OUman]

WRA daily departure count as of June 14th:

-American 7; M80, M83; DFW
-American Eagle 4; ER4, CR7; ORD (4)
-Continental 1; 737; IAH
-Continental Express (Expressjet) 8; ER4, ER4X; IAH (7), EWR (1)
-Continental Express (Chautauqua) 1; ER4; IAH
-Delta Conx (ASA) 4; CR7; ATL
-Delta Conx (Pinnacle) 5; CR2, CR9; ATL (2) , MEM (3)
-Delta Conx (Comair) 3; CR9; DTW
-Delta Conx (Skywest) 5; CR1, CR2, CR7; SLC (2), MSP (3)
-Delta Conx (Mesaba) 1; CR9; SLC
-Frontier (Republic) 4; E170, E190; DEN
-Southwest 19; 733, 735, 73G; BWI (1), DAL (5), DEN (2), HOU (4), MCI (2), LAS (1), PHX (2), STL (2)
-United 3; 319, 320; DEN
-United Express (Go Jet) 1; CR7; ORD (1)
-United Express (Skywest) 3; CR7; DEN (1), LAX (1), ORD (1)
-United Express (Trans States) 1; ER4; ORD
-United Express (Mesa) 4; CR7; DEN (1), IAD ( 1), ORD (2)

Total: 77 daily departures

Continental is switching between the classic 737s and NGs (Next Generation 737s) this month, I saw a 735 scheduled also on the daily morning run.

As of August 16th:

-American 7; M80, M83; DFW
-American Eagle 6; ER4, ERD, CR7; ORD (6)
-Continental 1; 73G; IAH
-Continental Express (Expressjet) 9; ER4, ER4X; IAH (8), EWR (1)
-Delta Conx (ASA) 3; CR7; ATL (2), DTW (1)
-Delta Conx (Pinnacle) 2; CR2; MSP
-Delta Conx (Comair) 7; CR1/2, CR7; MEM (3), MSP (1), ATL (3)
-Delta Conx (Skywest) 3; CR7; SLC
-Delta Conx (Mesaba) 2; CR9; DTW
-Delta Conx (Shuttle America) 1; E75; ATL
-Frontier (Republic) 4; E70, E90; DEN
-Southwest 21; 733, 735, 73G; BWI (1), DAL (5), DEN (3), HOU (4), MCI (2), LAS (2), PHX (2), STL (2)
-United 1; 320; DEN
-United Express (Go Jet) 3; CR7; DEN (2), IAD (1)
-United Express (Skywest) 5; CR7; DEN (1), ORD (2), LAX (2)
-United Express (Trans States) 2; ER4; DEN (1), ORD (1)
-United Express (Expressjet) 2; ER4; ORD

Total: 79 daily departures

Interesting changes are by DL Conx, introducing the 175 on one daily to/from ATL, and CR7s to SLC. DEN has gone from all-mainline to just one mainline and some RJs now.

As always, feel free to correct me on this Skywest and/or venture if you see anything missing.

[SkyWestOKC]

OKC-DEN is 1x mainline on UA for 14JUN, OKC-LAX is 2x OO (SkyWest) for 14JUN.

OKC-ORD is 5x on AA for 14JUN.

Are you using the airline booking engines when counting or a firm schedule? I am simply curious because our counts are off of each other by 2.

[chrisok]

Continental is phasing out, albeit slowly, the 735s. As they bring in the 738s and 739s, they're retiring the old ones. They just recently sent the last 733 out to the desert.

I bet were going to see some turboprops, the Q400, soon from Continental Connection (Colgan). Presently, most all the Q400 service has been to/from Newark, with limited Cleveland service. Houston service has been planned for awhile, and I hear they're about to get it rolling. As much as I dislike turboprops and Colgan, OKC makes perfect sense for the Q400. They seat about 20+ more than the ERJ-145 and OKC is the ideal distance from Houston for these planes.

[OUman]

OKC-DEN is 1x mainline on UA for 14JUN, OKC-LAX is 2x OO (SkyWest) for 14JUN.

OKC-ORD is 5x on AA for 14JUN.

Are you using the airline booking engines when counting or a firm schedule? I am simply curious because our counts are off of each other by 2.

I am using the booking engines, since they're updated to reflect latest changes, but I check them roughly bi-weekly on a monthly basis. I did miss the June stuff though, so that could be why mine is a bit off. Thanks for the corrections though!

I bet were going to see some turboprops, the Q400, soon from Continental Connection (Colgan). Presently, most all the Q400 service has been to/from Newark, with limited Cleveland service. Houston service has been planned for awhile, and I hear they're about to get it rolling. As much as I dislike turboprops and Colgan, OKC makes perfect sense for the Q400. They seat about 20+ more than the ERJ-145 and OKC is the ideal distance from Houston for these planes.

CO also has the 73Gs, mostly which markets like OKC get most of the time. But yeah, Q400s will likely be getting stationed at IAH. I have heard the Q-variant turboprops aren't that much noisier than an ERJ or a CRJ. Better than getting Brasilias (remember ASA's runs back in the day to/from DFW?) that would cause your voice to quiver with the vibrations from the props. Anyway, OKC has already been getting Q400s when they were part of Frontier's Lynx fleet.

[chrisok]

As far as turboprops go, they're not that noisy. They're also pretty big. They seat around what a E-170 seats. From a comfort standpoint, I still prefer the A side of an E145 or E135 (if you can find one).

Flew a Q200 about a month ago EWR-ALB. It was pretty noisy and teeth rattling.

[SkyWestOKC]

I would recommend using a schedule that is downloadable from their website. All except WN have one, they offer instant results to your searches and all flights are shown. Sometimes the booking engines block some flights to be seen in order to help fill up the other flights. Southwest is the only one I have to use the booking engine for.

It is a .exe program, btw. TravelDesk I think is what most airlines call it.

[ljbab728]

I would recommend using a schedule that is downloadable from their website. All except WN have one, they offer instant results to your searches and all flights are shown. Sometimes the booking engines block some flights to be seen in order to help fill up the other flights. Southwest is the only one I have to use the booking engine for.

It is a .exe program, btw. TravelDesk I think is what most airlines call it.

I wish I had time while I'm at work to use my SABRE system to help with this but I'm just too busy and can't use it at home. It compiles all of the airlines together.

[SkyWestOKC]

Yeah, there is a free tool available online, it is calles KVS Availability. It is good to see all of the flights, but I prefer my method of just using the schedules off the airline website. The program makes it where it takes me no longer than 10 minutes to find all the info I need.

[OUman]

^I will check it out, thanks for the info Skywest .