REHCO / Former Downtown Ford site

[Pete]

They filed plans to convert one of the parcels where they had recently demolished the last building to parking.

The application described it as a "4-year temporary lot". Sound like there are no immediate development plans for this property.

[AP]

Seems like that is always the case with these guys. They go at their own pace...

[Pete]

In fairness, they have done and are doing lots of other things in the core right now.

Not the best time to try and pull off a project of this scale and I'd rather they wait and do it right. Would be be the largest private downtown development ever, at least in terms of property size.

[RodH]

The site is actually on the south side of SW 2nd between Harvey and Robinson not as highlighted on the map.

[Pete]

The site is actually on the south side of SW 2nd between Harvey and Robinson not as highlighted on the map.

Thanks for the correction. The site plan they had included in their application had the orientation flipped.

The image is now correct.

[Teo9969]

They've got some serious fundraising/partnerships to take care of over the next 2 to 3 years if they want to turn this into what the lot merits.

I'd be disappointed if any less than $500M is invested into these 6 blocks, and it really deserves close to $1B. Between this, the Cox site, and the Stage Center site, OKC should probably see about $2.5B of development...and it's worth waiting to get there and not "cheap out" out at $250M developments. I know it's a lot of money...but it's also not. Not for what could become one of the most important urban areas in the entire region.

[bchris02]

They've got some serious fundraising/partnerships to take care of over the next 2 to 3 years if they want to turn this into what the lot merits.

I'd be disappointed if any less than $500M is invested into these 6 blocks, and it really deserves close to $1B. Between this, the Cox site, and the Stage Center site, OKC should probably see about $2.5B of development...and it's worth waiting to get there and not "cheap out" out at $250M developments. I know it's a lot of money...but it's also not. Not for what could become one of the most important urban areas in the entire region.

I agree with this.

Something like the Steelyard would be perfect on that site in my opinion. It needs to be a little more mixed use than the Metropolitan but needs to incorporate retail and housing and also needs to be designed in a way to bridge the MBG with the new park

At least nothing is being demolished for this surface lot.

[Pete]

Everything this group has done has been very nice, well though-out and in alliance with urban planning principles.

Happy to be patient while they get this right.

[Teo9969]

I agree with this.

Something like the Steelyard would be perfect on that site in my opinion. It needs to be a little more mixed use than the Metropolitan but needs to incorporate retail and housing and also needs to be designed in a way to bridge the MBG with the new park

At least nothing is being demolished for this surface lot.

I would be very disappointed with something like the Steelyard on this site. This site should have at least 2 buildings well over 10 stories (and 2+ specifically because this needs to not be a monstorous superblock type development. )...If there's a "skyscraper" (in this case 30+ stories, 350+ feet) great, but not necessary...not so obsessed with something super tall. I do think a hotel that rivals the Convention Hotel given the proximity to the convention center (and the hope to someday host the NBA All-Star game) should be part of this site, and definitely some mid-rise to high-rise residential. There obviously needs to be plenty of restaurant and retail, and probably even some sort of entertainment, and having a sort of central focal point in the middle of this development that also has a path between the MBG and the MAPS Park.

To me, in an ideal world you have:

1. 15-25 story hotel (At least 350+ rooms)
2. At least 200k square feet of office space
3. At least 20-50 condos
4. At least 150-200 apartments
5. At least 35k square feet of retail/restaurant space. (That's two Fassler Hall buildings worth)
6. Needs to have some sort of niche attraction/entertainment.
7. All of that necessitates at least 600 parking spaces.

All of that, to me, is pretty well bare minimum. I acknowledge again that it's not my money nor my property, but those numbers are some 20% - 40% lower than what I think this city can support.

I have no doubt that these guys can do it correctly. I'm glad to see that they are planning on the parking lot being there for (at least) 4 years (I assume the earliest they'd announce anything is early 2019). That being said, pulling off something like the above without significant subsidy would be a private development (non Fortune 500) unlike anything this state has seen.

[jn1780]

Four years isn't that long at all when you consider that the Convention Center won't be completed until 2020 at the earliest and were looking at three years before the north central park is completed. Makes sense that they would want to wait until these two projects were completed to see how they affect market demand.

[HOT ROD]

Totally agree with Teo, Steelyard (with signifnicantly more ground retail frontage and more height/units) could be on a very small portion of the site, say the SW near the park. But the majority of the site needs to be a continuum of the CBD - which means highrise with retail on the bottom.

This is a great opportunity to develop a new commercial grand street the likes OKC had back when Main Street was the top dog. If this is their plan, then I am happy to have what is now the largest parking crater in the nation (perhaps?), IF they agree to develop it piece by piece while remembering this IS THE CBD. Otherwise, I wish they would sell the lots closest to the arena (retain the far south west lot for the Steelyard V2 bigger bro idea for themselves to develop), and hopefully sell the rest to developers who can make the highrises happen - again, piece by piece.

We don't need any more super blocks or superblock development in the CBD and that includes the COX redevelopment - we need both parcels to be developed as organically as possible with CBD characteristics!!

I think OKC has grown up from thinking we need to have large swaths of land for CBD development to be viable. This is why I always call for OKC to develop Master Plans for the inner core - Highrise is how you develop in the CBD on small lots; and when you control a huge parcel then you still develop each individual highrise but one at a time to make sure everything is viable with a shared vision for the entire parcel.

[_Kyle]

Thread revive.... Anything new happening here?

[Pete]

Nope.

We are likely years away from anything moving forward on this site.

[dankrutka]

Nope.

We are likely years away from anything moving forward on this site.

Why sit on prime real estate, maybe in the best in OKC, like this? They know what's coming. Why not get the development started to coincide with the opening of the park?

[Bellaboo]

Why sit on prime real estate, maybe in the best in OKC, like this? They know what's coming. Why not get the development started to coincide with the opening of the park?

Maybe they are holding out in hopes to be the new arena site ?

[benjico]

The more Myriad/Scissortail news I see, the more concerned I am about the vacant lot in between them. Steve said in his chat today that Howard is still years away from acting on that land...

[jonny d]

The more Myriad/Scissortail news I see, the more concerned I am about the vacant lot in between them. Steve said in his chat today that Howard is still years away from acting on that land...

Don't let your mind worry. The owner of the land has a good history in OKC, and does care that it get developed the right way.

[citywokchinesefood]

Don't let your mind worry. The owner of the land has a good history in OKC, and does care that it get developed the right way.

I think the bigger worry is the amount of time it is going to take before they bother to do anything with the land. It would put a lot of people at ease if they had a plan in place that would be in the works to finish in late 2020 early 2021.

[Pete]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that property remain vacant for quite a while and not just because MidtownR is methodical and seems to have no clear plan here.

But because what type of commercial development would would be viable in the near future?

Hotel? There are tons of them all over downtown, a bunch more coming and 2 new heavily subsidized nearby properties (Omni and First National) set to bring tons more rooms onto the market.

Office? Way overbuilt right now in downtown and not being absorbed quickly at all.

Retail / restaurants? Only as part of a much larger development.

Condos? Bob Howard has said many times he doesn't want to build for-sale housing.

Apartments? Maybe, but that's a huge piece of property in a key area to waste on just apartments.


Also, Howard & Co, make good money off parking and that property was paid for a long time ago.

I could see the waiting being 10+ years rather than 2 or 3.

[shawnw]

If they wait that long it might end up being the replacement arena site :-P

[BG918]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that property remain vacant for quite a while and not just because MidtownR is methodical and seems to have no clear plan here.

But because what type of commercial development would would be viable in the near future?

Hotel? There are tons of them all over downtown, a bunch more coming and 2 new heavily subsidized nearby properties (Omni and First National) set to bring tons more rooms onto the market.

Office? Way overbuilt right now in downtown and not being absorbed quickly at all.

Retail / restaurants? Only as part of a much larger development.

Condos? Bob Howard has said many times he doesn't want to build for-sale housing.

Apartments? Maybe, but that's a huge piece of property in a key area to waste on just apartments.


Also, Howard & Co, make good money off parking and that property was paid for a long time ago.

I could see the waiting being 10+ years rather than 2 or 3.

You also have the Cox convention center opening up for redevelopment in 3 years when the new one is finished. That, to me, is the single biggest redevelopment site in OKC next to the transit center and in between the CBD, Bricktown, Myriad Gardens and CHK Arena. Restoring the street grid and doing a Denver Union Station-like redevelopment would be amazing.

[Urbanized]

I wouldn't be surprised to see that property remain vacant for quite a while and not just because MidtownR is methodical and seems to have no clear plan here.

But because what type of commercial development would would be viable in the near future?

Hotel? There are tons of them all over downtown, a bunch more coming and 2 new heavily subsidized nearby properties (Omni and First National) set to bring tons more rooms onto the market.

Office? Way overbuilt right now in downtown and not being absorbed quickly at all.

Retail / restaurants? Only as part of a much larger development.

Condos? Bob Howard has said many times he doesn't want to build for-sale housing.

Apartments? Maybe, but that's a huge piece of property in a key area to waste on just apartments.


Also, Howard & Co, make good money off parking and that property was paid for a long time ago.

I could see the waiting being 10+ years rather than 2 or 3.

Agree that it could potentially be that long, and I don't for a moment see it as a bad thing. I would rather have the RIGHT thing appear there even if it takes longer to materialize. The rush to have stuff filled out no matter what is not good strategy IMO. Examples of the highest and best use coming after an interminable wait abound in downtown at this point. 21c/West Village, Steelyard, First National Center and even the Skirvin took years and even decades to find the right purpose and the right owners/developers. This is a very important piece of property. I'd rather see it be parking for a few years and something amazing after than than be something mediocre tomorrow.

[ChrisHayes]

I personally wouldn't mind it being another park. That way there's continuous park from the Myriads all the way to the river. That being said, it would kind of be a waste of land. Something that would be nice is to have some food truck parking there for people going to both of the parks.

[Rover]

Would be a good location for weekend European style flea market and art market for local artists. Include food trucks and there is still room for parking. It might be a great magnet to bring even more people downtown on the weekends. These are great activity centers in many European cities of all sizes.

[Urbanized]

Those would both be outstanding temporary uses of the property. And by temporary I mean it could be a few years' time until the highest and best use comes into focus. It might help to remember that REHCO is the same group that - while they were developing real actual mixed-use elsewhere in the district - converted several other of their properties into things like BleuGarten (yes, it is temporary but nobody thinks of it as a blight or is in a pants-afire hurry to see it built out). They also donated empty lot space for the Midtown dog park AND they lease the space next to BleuGarten for the Holiday Pop-Up Shops and Industry Flea.

The highest and best use of this piece of property probably involves some combination of high rise, housing, hospitality/mixed use. But it might be a bit before we see that.