Alley's End (4th & EK Gaylord)

[catcherinthewry]

^Totally agree.

[Dob Hooligan]

I might even suggest that a sports writer would have a little more leeway regarding mixing opinion and straight reporting than a business writer would.

[Teo9969]

Rose Rock's land use is better and it's not particularly close. Not having retail/restaurant at 4th and EK Gaylord should be a non-starter.

If you could conjoin the two developments, that would be better --- the idea that the tract between the BNSF tracks and the RFP site would be hard to eventually be developed is really as poor of an argument as there is to be made for choosing Bomasda over Rose Rock. Yeah, it may be great if they could be part of one whole development, but never under the condition that a pedestrian wouldn't enter the building for public use at 4th/EKG.

And you know what, I don't even think I believe that it should be one development. OKC urgently needs less monolithic structures and more mid-block development.

[HOT ROD]

Teo, that was my thoughts - combine the two with Round Rock being the architectural design but adding the housing on top making a much denser development (aka - high rise).

[shawnw]

While I favor Rose Rock between the two, I'm not opposed to a combined effort. Nothing wrong with best of both worlds if they can make it work. Will be interesting to see how OCURA responds to these.

[Ross MacLochness]

I'd go for a bunch of apartments here any day over a bank branch and parking garage, assuming they had a mixed use component on the first couple of floors. Ideally, like others have posted, I'd love to see the bank branch/retail/parking proposal but with a couple hundred housing units stacked on top.

[Pete]

Bomasada -- the apartment developer -- only builds apartments then flips them.

This is what they did at The Metropolitan and one of the reasons they won't be seeking public assistance, as any TIF money comes with strings about selling. You can sell, but you have to return most the incentives.

So, there is no combining the two proposals. What could happen is that Bomasada builds taller on the land the city doesn't own but they don't do that either, because once you go beyond 6 stories you can't really use wood framing and steel is way more expensive and likely outside their experience. But they could just buid fewer units; something like Mosaic.


BTW, this isn't a "branch bank and parking garage". It's a truly mixed-use project with incorporated parking, something must have been lobbying for. The design is just preliminary and will be tweeked.

There are hundreds of open spots near downtown that could accommodate the type of housing Bomasada is proposing. Why does it need to be on a very high-profile intersection directly adjacent to the CBD? Especially with no commercial element at all.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^^I do not disagree. Just saying since housing was incorporated into one of the two proposals and it's on my mind, It would be great to have the Mixed use development also incorporate housing, not necessarily literally combining these two exact proposals.

[jonny d]

^^^I do not disagree. Just saying since housing was incorporated into one of the two proposals and it's on my mind, It would be great to have the Mixed use development also incorporate housing, not necessarily literally combining these two exact proposals.

Yep! Agreed.

It would be nice to see significant height added here, but with land costs still ignorantly cheap (comparatively speaking) height won't be coming downtown for a while.

[jedicurt]

if i had to choose between this being residential or commercial.. i'm going to go for the commercial proposal, because we need to start getting something in CBD that is actually open after 5, and on weekends. but i am with others, that if we can get something that has both residential and commercial, then i think that's the golden proposal

[Ross MacLochness]

Best way to keep things open late in City Center is more residents!

[Pete]

Best way to keep things open late in City Center is more residents!

Yes, but very few CBD's have big blocks of apartments. They are usually in the periphery with easy access to cultural attractions and events.

I worked in downtown LA and it was a ghost town in the evenings and on weekends, even though there were tons of living units all around.

Downtown would not be at all disadvantaged if the apartments were built a few blocks away.

[G.Walker]

Best way to keep things open late in City Center is more residents!

I agree, the more residential the better. Downtown Charlotte & Austin are prime examples of how residents in the City Center is a +.

[Rover]

Everyone would be cheering at residential units in this spot if it was taller. But now we are back to advocating for us to have a Central Business District and a ring of residential around it? Interesting.

[BoulderSooner]

Yes, but very few CBD's have big blocks of apartments. They are usually in the periphery with easy access to cultural attractions and events.

I worked in downtown LA and it was a ghost town in the evenings and on weekends, even though there were tons of living units all around.

Downtown would not be at all disadvantaged if the apartments were built a few blocks away.

denver has tons of apt very close to their CBD

[Pete]

denver has tons of apt very close to their CBD

Close and in are 2 completely different things.

OKC has tons of apartments close to the CBD, too. And this would be close if it was still in Deep Deuce or several other of our urban districts.


My central point is that these apartments could go anywhere near the CBD, it doesn't have to be on a major commercial thoroughfare which it completely ignores.

[Rover]

denver has tons of apt very close to their CBD

As does Austin

[hoya]

denver has tons of apt very close to their CBD

And over the last year or so we've seen a lot of CBD places spring up next to our CBD.

[Rover]

So, you ARE clearly advocating for the Rose Rock proposal of a parking garage + offices on top, and for separate CBD and residential neighborhoods.

BTW, there are LOTS of other sites in the immediate area where we can also put this size parking garage and offices on. If there is this separate demand, I hope which ever one loses goes ahead with one of the alternate sites. We have so many to choose from. Apartments would do well at the Dolese site. The curved garage would do well at the curved street at 11th and Broadway where the little convenience store is. Or maybe at the surface lot W of the Uhaul building.

[Pete]

I am counter-balancing arguments already put forth, not advocating.

And not saying the residential needs to be separate from the CBD, just that this location is less important to apartments with no commercial element at all vs. one that is completely commercial.

It would be far easier to make the apartments work elsewhere, which is clearly demonstrated by Bomasada's other OKC location (which they subsequently sold) in OKC.

[Rover]

If the apartment project would add a couple floors + and put commercial on the ground level it would be much more appealing. Let's see their real proposal.

[Pete]

If the apartment project would add a couple floors + and put commercial on the ground level it would be much more appealing. Let's see their real proposal.

That is their proposal. It was a formal response to the RFP and will be judged by what they submitted, complete with detailed financials.

Final design review would be at a later stage if either project is chosen.

[Sooner.Arch]

This structure is in Uptown Dallas, one of my favorites, and reminds me of the Rose Rock proposal (wavy metal covered parking and limestone). I understand why people would want residential but the Bomasada proposal is not design appropriate for the CBD.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes, but very few CBD's have big blocks of apartments. They are usually in the periphery with easy access to cultural attractions and events.

I worked in downtown LA and it was a ghost town in the evenings and on weekends, even though there were tons of living units all around.

Downtown would not be at all disadvantaged if the apartments were built a few blocks away.

This is not the case anymore. Downtown LA sure isn’t New York City But it’s getting more lively with each passing year With a plethora of high-rise residential projects under construction or in the works.

[Pete]

^

Right, but I when I worked down there, there were still way, way more housing units than what OKC now has in the core and it was still extremely dead.