New Downtown Arena

[btmec]

When they demolish the Prarie Surf Studios; I wonder if the Chinese tunnels will be exposed again. Back when the Myriad was built they blocked off the tunnel entrance (north side of the underground parking garage). When a professor from OU visited them he only got to see a small portion before they sealed them off so exploration didn't impede the construction.

[Pete]

What REHCO (mainly Bob Howard but also Hall Capital has an interest) owns is shown below in red.

There is a private party that owns the one remaining commercial lot, but all that frontage along the OKC Boulevard is owned by the City or State.

When there were negotiations over this site for the convention center, the City was going to close all those internal streets and incorporate them into the larger site. If/when this site is developed, the same thing would probably happen, so you can see about half of this land is owned by a government body, and the City controls what happens there.

I'm also going to post this on the REHCO Land thread.

I just did the calculations and REHCO owns 8.6 acres.

If you incorporate the City/State-owned property and close the internal streets (not including Hudson, of course) that would be a total of 18.3 acres.

So the government owns and the City controls more than half of that site.

[CatholicSooner]

I wonder when they demolish the Prarie Surf Studios the Chinese tunnels will be exposed again. Back when the Myriad was built they blocked off the tunnel entrance (north side of the underground parking garage). When a professor from OU visited them he only got to see a small portion before they sealed them off so exploration didn't impede the construction.

That would be so cool expose. Think of the tourist attraction it could bring too lol

[btmec]

Same. Happy OKC is growing, changing, evolving. I have been to plenty of metros that are either slowly losing population or essentially stagnant in growth and it shows.

I'm all for progress, growth, and change. As you indicated being stagnant isn't good. However, I moved back to OKC from LA because it was smaller and didn't have all the issues of a larger city. Since I've been back I've noticed traffic is getting worse. The once beautiful open land is now filled with a shopping center, fast food, emergency clinic, and new housing developments. I've been back since 2008 to a neighborhood called Rivendale the entrance is just north of SW 134th and May. That whole area felt rural and now that feeling is gone.

[Laramie]

I'm all for progress, growth, and change. As you indicated being stagnant isn't good. However, I moved back to OKC from LA because it was smaller and didn't have all the issues of a larger city. Since I've been back I've noticed traffic is getting worse. The once beautiful open land is now filled with a shopping center, fast food, emergency clinic, and new housing developments. I've been back since 2008 to a neighborhood called Rivendale the entrance is just north of SW 134th and May. That whole area felt rural and now that feeling is gone.

You moved back in 2008. Did that have anything to do with the NBA Supersonics' relocation to OKC?

[Oski]

I'm all for progress, growth, and change. As you indicated being stagnant isn't good. However, I moved back to OKC from LA because it was smaller and didn't have all the issues of a larger city. Since I've been back I've noticed traffic is getting worse. The once beautiful open land is now filled with a shopping center, fast food, emergency clinic, and new housing developments. I've been back since 2008 to a neighborhood called Rivendale the entrance is just north of SW 134th and May. That whole area felt rural and now that feeling is gone.

Choctaw and Guthrie are still peaceful, I believe, and not too far from OKC.

[OKCTalker]

Prairie Surf Studio lost its lease about the time the new arena vote was passed, leaving some to assume that PSS would be moved with minimal disruption to their operations. Are we seeing the end of PSS, or are they looking for another location?

[Pete]

Prairie Surf Studio lost its lease about the time the new arena vote was passed, leaving some to assume that PSS would be moved with minimal disruption to their operations. Are we seeing the end of PSS, or are they looking for another location?

They were just notified their lease would not be renewed; i.e. the first option was unilaterally cancelled by the City and according to their agreement, the City had to give them ample notice.

It runs through the end of 2025 (was a five-year base term) and for the new arena to open before the end of the decade, they would almost certainly have to leave before that.

[BoulderSooner]

They were just notified their lease would not be renewed; i.e. the first option was unilaterally cancelled by the City and according to their agreement, the City had to give them ample notice.

It runs through the end of 2025 (was a five-year base term) and for the new arena to open before the end of the decade, they would almost certainly have to leave before that.

if the city didn't notify before jan 1 .. prairie would have the sole right to extend to the end of 2026 ..

[BoulderSooner]

I just did the calculations and REHCO owns 8.6 acres.

If you incorporate the City/State-owned property and close the internal streets (not including Hudson, of course) that would be a total of 18.3 acres.

So the government owns and the City controls more than half of that site.

keep in mind that if this is a normal "not platted" area the property owner generally owns to the center of the road ..

"Title 69 2001 Sec. 1202 Highways -- Right of adjoining owner (says) an owner of land bounded by a road or street is presumed to own to the center of the way, but the contrary may be shown.


"In essence, yes, most property owners own to the section line, which may or may not be the center line of the pavement. However, previous land transactions, the specifics of a location, actions taken by a municipality or county, etc. may all have effects on this issue, which is why the statute stipulates that the contrary may be shown.

[Pete]

keep in mind that if this is a normal "not platted" area the property owner generally owns to the center of the road ..

True, but the City has complete control of closing those roads and thus making that property available for development.


I remember when things got heated during the convention center negotiations and the City started eminent domain proceedings before it became clear the independent appraisers appointed by the court were going to come back with a figure close to what REHCO was demanding, so the City quickly dropped its legal action before the deal became binding.

Someone with OCURA or the City was quoted as saying something to the effect they would be less likely to grant REHCO street closures in the future due to the acrimony that was involved. It was silly and petulant at the time and I'm sure that's all changed now.

[BoulderSooner]

True, but the City has complete control of closing those roads and thus making that property available for development.


I remember when things got heated during the convention center negotiations and the City started eminent domain proceedings before it became clear the independent appraisers appointed by the court were going to come back with a figure close to what REHCO was demanding, so the City quickly dropped its legal action before the deal became binding.

Someone with OCURA or the City was quoted as saying something to the effect they would be less likely to grant REHCO street closures in the future due to the acrimony that was involved. It was silly and petulant at the time and I'm sure that's all changed now.

100% ..

[Urbanized]

It should be pointed out here that the portion of REHCO being considered for the arena site is/was only the eastern 2/3 and does not include the western 1/3.

Regarding expense, folks here are failing to consider that using REHCO would mostly involve a land swap rather than a cash payment. This solution was originally favored by some due in large part to the fact that it would most likely trim as much as a year off of the construction schedule, owing to not requiring them to wait on the demo (and the lease) associated with the Cox/Prairie Surf site. See my posts upthread alluding to this.

What low-information online speculation also fails to consider is that demo of the PSM site also requires relocating mechanicals such as HVAC, which run through the basement of PSM and power Paycom, which must continue to run while the new arena is being constructed. This relocation must be done BEFORE PSM demolition commences; this extends the overall timeline. The ice plant will need to be removed from Paycom and replaced with the system currently in the basement of PSM. All of this takes time (and money).

There must also be a relocation of ASM offices from PSM to Paycom.

A land swap including PSM in favor of REHCO would also still require demo of the PSM site. REHCO's owners would never accept PSM with an obsolete building housing a tenant requiring lease subsidy. The building is very expensive to maintain, and there would be no justifiable revenue source. Any sane developer would require a like site, which in this case would mean scraped, leveled and remediated. No matter what the City will be required to spend $10M+ to demo PSM and prepare the site.

Of course the REHCO site would require significant excavation if the arena were to be located there, as the arena will most likely be partially sunken, like Paycom (and most other modern arenas). Even excavation is more expensive than most folks understand.

All of that said, every reliable indication I've seen is that PSM has again become the favored location. This includes statements made by the City Manager on a panel yesterday hosted by Downtown OKC Partnership for the benefit of downtown stakeholders. He by no means made any type of announcement, but did stress the advantages of the site owing to the City's ownership.

[PoliSciGuy]

You moved back in 2008. Did that have anything to do with the NBA Supersonics' relocation to OKC?

Probably not

[caaokc]

It needs to go on the PSM site. The chance to be able to tap into the Santa Fe [future] Hub for whatever form of commuter rail down the tracks. There will be something very special about having the ability to take a train from Edmond or Norman and being dropped off across the street from the arena.

Agreed. Hopefully they can circle back on that tunnel project in Bricktown that they scrapped a few years ago.

[Urbanized]

Also, forgot to mention relative to the ever-present renderings discussion: the City first has to select and hire a project consultant to advise and to manage the process on its behalf (and independent from the Thunder's consultant). This process by itself takes time. Official site selection must also take place. No renderings are forthcoming at the present time, despite how anxious folks on the Internet are to see them. To put it into NBA terms: trust the process.

[HFAA Alum]

Agreed. Hopefully they can circle back on that tunnel project in Bricktown that they scrapped a few years ago.

I trust that it had something to do with the canal? Forgive me, my mind is a bit hazy with the details and there's a lot of exciting things popping up like daises.

[caaokc]

I trust that it had something to do with the canal? Forgive me, my mind is a bit hazy with the details and there's a lot of exciting things popping up like daises.

Maybe so, but I thought it also had to do with the cost being way more than they thought it would.

[mugofbeer]

I thought it was more the railroad being ***** (insert your own word) and not cooperating.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^^
The railroad - which controls the ROW - insisted that the only way they’d allow construction is if the contractor paid for the track to be monitored constantly and for all equipment and personnel to be fully removed from the dig in advance of every passing train. It drove the estimated cost of the project to about triple the budget.

[CatholicSooner]

I’m confused. They did create another tunnel already. Was there something else they were going to do?

[Pete]

I’m confused. They did create another tunnel already. Was there something else they were going to do?

Yes, they were going to extend the current tunnel that leads to the far east tracks and take it into Bricktown, with an entrance/exit near the far northwest fountain.

They started the work but the RR wouldn't cooperate (they never do and are famously impossible to deal with) so the remainder of the federal funds were used to redo the Bricktown plaza on the south side of the canal (2nd to last photo below) across from where this was planned.

The last image shows the current passenger tunnel that was to be extended.


As far as I know, this tunnel connection to Bricktown is dead for the foreseeable future. Maybe it can be resurrected as part of the new arena plan.

[CatholicSooner]

Yes, they were going to extend the current tunnel that leads to the far east tracks and take it into Bricktown, with an entrance/exit near the far northwest fountain.

They started the work but the RR wouldn't cooperate (they never do and are famously impossible to deal with) so the remainder of the federal funds were used to redo the Bricktown plaza on the south side of the canal (2nd to last photo below) across from where this was planned.

The last image shows the current passenger tunnel that was to be extended.


As far as I know, this tunnel connection to Bricktown is dead for the foreseeable future. Maybe it can be resurrected as part of the new arena plan.

Interesting. I wonder why the new tunnel south of there was not an issue to work with them on

[mugofbeer]

Maybe that this one is directly under an Amtrak stop?

[Urbanized]

The issue isn’t with Amtrak - which leases the track on which it operates AND the depot - but with BNSF, which owns the track.