OKC/Will Rogers Air Service Discussion

[OUman]

^That's correct, but the DO 328 prop beats it size-wise.

Both runways were recently re-surfaced, and IIRC, RWY 03-21 was to have new edge lighting installed as well. A 100-ft wide runway though will not support aircraft larger than those mentioned above anyway, so larger airliners are out of question.

RWY 17-35 cannot be extended further south, unless they extend it as a displaced threshold. But then that means the probable intersection of it with 03-21 and the associated costs of tearing that up and rebuilding it again, so on and so forth. Probably not going to happen.

[venture]

Actually ERJ-135 has a wingspan about 1ft wider and the fuselage is about 9 feet longer (more if you count the tail). Either way, they both look(ed) pretty out of place at OUN. : )

Right. The runways and other infrastructure would need to be redone to accommodate anything larger as I stated. Obviously going south would get rid of the displaced threshold in place and intersect with 3/21. Should the need every arise, that would probably be the more cost effective approach. The other more costly option would be extending 3/21 and re-routing (or tunneling) North Flood under it. Of course the railroad tracks would also be in the way as would 12th NW.

Just stating options. Will never happen, but still.

[SkyWestOKC]

Per FAA:

Runway 3/21 and 17/35
Single wheel: 30,000 lbs
Double wheel: 50,000 lbs
Double Tandem: 100,000 lbs

The Boeing 737, which uses a Double wheel landing gear system, has an empty weight well above the maximum rating for double wheel weight bearing at KOUN.

The Boeing 757, has a Double tandem landing gear, and it's empty weight is also well above the maximum rating for double tandem. As David has said, the weights alone would be a disqualifier.

[SkyWestOKC]

Can't believe I missed this from last month's Airport Trust meeting, this is big news.

Atlantic Aviation is going to build an FBO on the east side of the airport between Taxiway H-1 and G. (East side of airport south of ARINC)

Atlantic is leasing 15 Acres of land for a 25 year period. will construct a 26,000 square foot hangar (no less than 25,000 sq ft.) with 9,000 feet of office space, 2 10,000 gallon fuel tanks, and 246,500 sq feet of ramp/apron space.

Map:

(North at Top)



Construction dates yet to be announced.

[okclee]

To the novice aviation people could you further explain, how this is big news?

I am not disagreeing with you, but rather would like to know more?

[SkyWestOKC]

A large tenant is not "huge" news, but it is big enough news that I am surprised I missed it. This is also good news for the East Side Airport Development Strategy, which has yet to have been given to the public. (Is available through the 28 APR meeting)

The East Side Development plan is trying to get the land east of the airport (up to I-44) ready for use by tenants, which includes a new Portland Ave. that runs as a Frontage road to I-44. Having an anchor tenant such as an FBO will help attract other tenants, such as corporate aviation hangars, maintenance facilities, etc. to the new east side development.

An FBO provides fuel, parking, car rentals, maintenance, etc. for general aviation and business jets, they also can handle some commercial sized aircraft charters (such as the NBA charters, which use the AAR FBO on the other side of the field). This is good news for the airport, this shows two things: a) general aviation and business jet traffic demand is increasing for the area and b) diversifying and increasing revenue sources and employment opportunities for the airport.

However, there is a chance the Wiley Post location for this FBO may close. So, it may end up being a double-sided sword.

[SkyWestOKC]

I was at the airport today, Garage B was full (the old 5-story), and Garage C (new 5-story) was full except the top floor. They might need to start entertaining the idea of the addition of the 3rd 5-story within the next 5-10 years.

More about the garage, last month (around the 10th or 11th), a concrete wall panel fell over in Garage B, no damage to any private property reported. The Airport Trust has approved an emergency Garage B structural analysis and refurbishment, to go along with the planned renovations of that garage.

[brianinok]

SkyWest, I flew out of the airport on 5/8 and both garages were full. I had to parking in covered shuttle parking. I was NOT happy. Last time I had to do that a storm came threw and blew the covers off the "covered" shuttle parking. Of course they still made me pay for covered parking even though my car wasn't covered.....

This time at least the storms didn't blow the covers off. But I did not return until 5/23 and did not like my car not being in the garage the whole time. Why is the airport trust so bad at planning things like this? The new garage doesn't have enough capacity 6 months after it's finished?!? That is beyond ridiculous. I NEVER see that kind of problem in other cities. They always have plenty of parking in their garages.

[SkyWestOKC]

It does make you wonder....

I'd recommend to email the airport manager, make sure he's aware of what's going on.

If I can meet up with him after the trust meeting tomorrow I will bring it up off the record. (I don't like addressing the trust directly)

Mind you, this garage was supposed to fill capacity for the next 10 years. It looks like demand was already 190% above capacity when they started this garage. So right now we'd be at, what 95% capacity?

It seems they are bad at planning traffic. But I am impressed with their east side ground usage and rental car facility plans -- very long term thinking.

Unfortunately, this parking structure plan is very bad. The master plan only foresees the need for a third 5-story. When development planning firms have suggested building higher than 5 stories, the trust says no because it will "hide the terminal building." What are we going to do in 20 years? Have 6 or 7 5-story lots going all the way out to Amelia Earhart Drive?

Airport Trust meeting tomorrow at 1030am, City Council Chambers, 3rd Floor, City Hall.

[ljbab728]

SkyWest, I flew out of the airport on 5/8 and both garages were full. I had to parking in covered shuttle parking. I was NOT happy. Last time I had to do that a storm came threw and blew the covers off the "covered" shuttle parking. Of course they still made me pay for covered parking even though my car wasn't covered.....

This time at least the storms didn't blow the covers off. But I did not return until 5/23 and did not like my car not being in the garage the whole time. Why is the airport trust so bad at planning things like this? The new garage doesn't have enough capacity 6 months after it's finished?!? That is beyond ridiculous. I NEVER see that kind of problem in other cities. They always have plenty of parking in their garages.

Brian, I'm not sure what other airports you have parked at but I have definitely seen similar problems if not worse at others. I'm not saying ours is sufficient but it's hardly the worst.

[DelCamino]

It does make you wonder....

.....When development planning firms have suggested building higher than 5 stories, the trust says no because it will "hide the terminal building." What are we going to do in 20 years? Have 6 or 7 5-story lots going all the way out to Amelia Earhart Drive? .....

If they are really thinking this way, it doesn't make sense. The new garage is horribly ugly (a square box made out of concrete - no landscaping, no color, no signage, architectural feature). That building already hides the terminal.

What they need now is a building/garage to hide the new garage.

[DelCamino]

Skywest and Venture - thanks for the information you provide here. It's interesting and informed.

Do you have any news on the proposed new WRWA website? (Unfortunately I think I know what your answer will be).

[OKC@heart]

If they are really thinking this way, it doesn't make sense. The new garage is horribly ugly (a square box made out of concrete - no landscaping, no color, no signage, architectural feature). That building already hides the terminal.

What they need now is a building/garage to hide the new garage.

With the effort that was put into the terminals redesign it is unfortunate that they did not put more effort into studying ways to make the parking structures more integrated with the design of the terminals. There are some stunning examples of parking garages that while there is no way to hide the mass actually contribute to the vibrancy and activity that an Airport is supposed to be. There are a number of cool ways to screen the garage and add planting in strategic ways or well executed lighting that combined with a well articulated facade design can actually make the building an icon in themselves. Fortunately some of these types of design solutions can be added after the fact so there is still hope yet if they will consider it.

[SkyWestOKC]

They updated the Terminal Guide on the site, so it's slightly newer.

Other than that, I have no clue. Off to the meeting and hopefully I can talk to someone about it after the meeting.

[SkyWestOKC]

Delta to Detroit will go down to 2x from 3x daily, I'll bet this a seasonal pull down for winter traffic.

[venture]

Delta to Detroit will go down to 2x from 3x daily, I'll bet this a seasonal pull down for winter traffic.

It should be. We'll probably see it back in April if all goes well.

[OUman]

Funny they still have "Delta/Champion Air" on Level 2 of the terminal map.

[SkyWestOKC]

As well as America West, and American/US Airways.

[venture]

I think it is safe to say the Airport Trust/Dept of Airports really doesn't care about the website at all. They use to have someone chime in here from time to time and she totally vanished.

[SkyWestOKC]

Southwest is expected to make a huge announcement sometime this week, internally they are really making a lot of noise about it. All I have been told is, "You will remember where you were when you hear the news."

This probably has absolutely nothing to do with OKC, I don't know, and I'm not banking on anything, though, or keeping my hopes up. I don't even know the nature of the announcement, just that it will be big. Since Southwest is a carrier at OKC, I think it's fair to bring this up from the rumor mill. There's also a good chance that this will be a regular announcement of some sort (new station, new route, etc.), and a very good chance it is absolutely nothing.

Parking: Dir. Kranenburg has told me they monitor the situation constantly, and there is plenty of surface parking available. Demand for a 3rd 5-story is not there, etc. etc. Peak traffic right now, etc.

Website: no clue, they updated the terminal map a little bit it seems, but still not very up to date.

[Rover]

I agree with the others stating the obvious...the garages are very non-descript and hide the terminal. If featuring the appeal of the terminal is important, then they have failed already.

The approach to the airport has already been upgraded substantially in the last 10 years with better landscaping etc. However, once you get to the immediate approach to the terminal, it is very disappointing. The best views, unfortunately, are if you are LEAVING and happen to be taking a taxi or shuttle. It seems to me the architects and planners worked on one piece at a time and did a poor job of planning the design for the overall appeal or functionality for those actually using it.

[proud2Bsooner]

I agree with the others stating the obvious...the garages are very non-descript and hide the terminal. If featuring the appeal of the terminal is important, then they have failed already.

The approach to the airport has already been upgraded substantially in the last 10 years with better landscaping etc. However, once you get to the immediate approach to the terminal, it is very disappointing. The best views, unfortunately, are if you are LEAVING and happen to be taking a taxi or shuttle. It seems to me the architects and planners worked on one piece at a time and did a poor job of planning the design for the overall appeal or functionality for those actually using it.

I don't disagree with your post. However, the drive to the airport is pretty much meaningless. For visitors, they want to be able to navigate through the airport, and they care most about the terminals. I get a lot of compliments from visitors about how nice the terminals are. I really doubt they care much about the drive to the airport, unless it is confusing (which, it is not). Granted, I haven't flown everywhere. But in my experience airports are not the most beautiful structures in the world. They are more function than form.

[venture]

Another infamous "mega super ultra Southwest" announcement. Considering every other one they've been rumored to do has never happened...not holding my breath. About the only thing that would really get attention would be an order for the CSeries or E-Jet line. Finally start using aircraft that fit their load factors. 25% of their seats currently go unfilled, which is one of the lowest numbers in the industry. Right sizing to a smaller aircraft on certain routes would be a good thing. Not to mention it opens up the ability to launch many more markets that can't support 8 737s a day.

The only other things I can think of that would peak some interest...entering Atlanta, merging with AirTran/Alaska/Hawaiian, joining Star/OneWorld/SkyTeam, and umm....yeah that's about it. It'll probably be something lame like starting service to Wichita after that city presents them the check for $3 Million that Southwest is asking for.

Or it could be this (but they are probably still pretty far away from an official announcement): http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...dline=Analyst:

[SkyWestOKC]

Well, this is gaining steam internally, lots of talk and hype. But most of these turn into nothing. Word is first week of June. Nothing to get too worked up about, if it happens it happens.

It is most likely the announcement of a new city -- if it's anything at all. I wonder why everyone is being told, "you'll remember where you were when you hear it."?

[Richard at Remax]

do you think they might start serving canadian cities? like toronto, vancouver, calgary, ect?