Costco

[Pete]

I'm really just not that impressed by TJ's but I know some people love it.

I wasn't impressed either until I finally "got it" after several trips.

Was just in there last night and I go more often than even the regular grocery store (which for me is a very nice Ralph's).

It's not only awesome, most of what they carry is unique to their stores, so completely new offerings when they come to a new market.

[Mississippi Blues]

Didn't think of that. That is a possibility.

But unlikely. Most Seattleites are cool with Oklahoma City (other than both places being flaming opposites) and hold no ill will against the city because of that. If all Seattle had was the SuperSonics and Seattle was a struggling city, it might make a small bit of sense; but from a business standpoint, it's completely illogical and ignorant to avoid a city because a businessman bought a struggling team from an already greedy owner and relocated the team to that city.

Oklahoma City has a Nordstrom Rack. Can anyone make an educated guess where Nordstrom is based?

[OkieNate]

But unlikely. Most Seattleites are cool with Oklahoma City (other than both places being flaming opposites) and hold no ill will against the city because of that. If all Seattle had was the SuperSonics and Seattle was a struggling city, it might make a small bit of sense; but from a business standpoint, it's completely illogical and ignorant to avoid a city because a businessman bought a struggling team from an already greedy owner and relocated the team to that city.

Oklahoma City has a Nordstrom Rack. Can anyone make an educated guess where Nordstrom is based?

Well, said. Should Seattle also hate every city with Boeing employees? Real adults who make important decisions aren't concerned with where the Thunder play.

[Rover]

If people are driving more than 30 minutes to shop at a warehouse then.... hell, I can't even come up with an analogy of how sad that is. All I can say is, a lot of people need to set their sights a little higher.

Amen. And if they think it is "upscale" or sign of social progress, it is even more amazing...amazingly sad. The fact we are obsessing over a warehouse store and who gets one first seems kind of 7th grade creepy.

[bchris02]

Amen. And if they think it is "upscale" or sign of social progress, it is even more amazing...amazingly sad. The fact we are obsessing over a warehouse store and who gets one first seems kind of 7th grade creepy.

Just because some people don't like or need Costco doesn't mean people who want it are 7th grade creepy. It seems to be the attitude with some around here regarding things that are lacking that if its not here it must not be worth having and those who complain about it (or drive to Dallas or Tulsa) are snobs or spoiled. I personally don't have the income to afford Louis Vuitton or Gucci, but if one of those stores were announced for OKC I would be very excited because that is indeed a sign of progress.

[Rover]

What is funny is that I used to commute to Riverside, CA to work. I knew a bunch of people there who were excited that Sams Club was opening. I guess we all want what we don't have. If Costco floats your boat, great. But it isn't the sign that OKC has arrived, or someone else has arrived first. Lots of small and relatively poor areas have Costcos. Now, if Bloomingdales or Nordstroms opens here, that is a sign that there is enough economic power in the city to encourage others to come. If Tulsa gets a Nordstroms and we don't, then let's talk about how Tulsa always gets the best first. Til then, arguing about prestige of who is first to get a Costco IS kind of weird.

[Pete]

By far the biggest and nicest new retailer to come to Oklahoma in quite some time is Von Maur, yet that gets conveniently dismissed by those committed to taking the negative view.

[Rover]

I agree Pete. It will be the best department store in the state and a great get for QS Mall.

[bchris02]

By far the biggest and nicest new retailer to come to Oklahoma in quite some time is Von Maur, yet that gets conveniently dismissed by those committed to taking the negative view.

Von Maur is a great catch. I can't think of anybody who has dismissed it as not a big deal. I'm excited about its opening as well as the changes that should come to QSM as a result.

[BrettM2]

Von Maur is a great catch. I can't think of anybody who has dismissed it as not a big deal. I'm excited about its opening as well as the changes that should come to QSM as a result.

Just not as big a deal as Tulsa's Sak's, right?

[bluedogok]

It's called the internet - everything can be delivered.

Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more

Not "everything"......there are some items that my wife uses in her baking that we have not been able to find suitable (to her) replacements here in Denver and we haven't found them on Amazon or Walmart.com. There are a few items that I order out of Texas through those two, we also get the Whataburger pancake mix and ketchup directly from them (a great and easy pancake mix). What she does for those items is stock up at HEB when she goes back to Midland to visit family. Some of the items are listed on Walmart.com but are only available in stores but not the stores here. The items she really misses is Falfurrias butter (a South Texas brand) and Imperial or Domino dark brown sugar, if we are in OKC she can find a similar sugar at Crest with the house brand, it has a similar molasses content. We haven't found the ability to buy those online yet in anything but huge quantities which might be feasible when she decides to open a shop.

[HOT ROD]

I thought OKC has over 1.4M people in the last estimate in the CSA (and not too far from that even in the 1.35M MSA, not sure why there is a CSA in the first place).

BChris, does Charlotte really have double that population (you claimed on a post earlier)?

[BBatesokc]

Amen. And if they think it is "upscale" or sign of social progress, it is even more amazing...amazingly sad. The fact we are obsessing over a warehouse store and who gets one first seems kind of 7th grade creepy.

There's absolutely nothing 'sad' about looking forward to Costco coming to OKC. I'm guessing if I paid 3x as much to buy the same groceries at Whole Foods then it would be far more acceptable to you? What about furniture and/or TV's? What's so positive about buying them at an expensive store? I just picked up a 39" JVC LED TV for $160 at Sam's a few days ago. Try getting that price in your definition of an upscale store. As for furniture, the stuff I buy at Sam's is much nicer and cheaper than even stuff Mathis Brothers puts in their scratch and dent area.

I'm guessing shopping on Amazon is totally not cool either - since that is the epitome of warehouse shopping (literally).

I live within a mile of Sam's in Edmond, so I'm there at least 2-3 times a week. I love that I can go in at 7am, and shop basically an empty store and be done with it. Not to mention their markdowns and clearance area can't be beat.

I'm totally 7th grade creepy excited to have a second local warehouse choice. And, on the upside, I apparently won't have to worry about waiting in line behind you!

Not to mention the above average paying jobs and competition it brings to the area. Win/Win

[bchris02]

I thought OKC has over 1.4M people in the last estimate in the CSA (and not too far from that even in the 1.35M MSA, not sure why there is a CSA in the first place).

BChris, does Charlotte really have double that population (you claimed on a post earlier)?

Charlotte has 2.4 million in its MSA. OKC is at 1.3 as of this year. So actually its a little less than double but almost. Charlotte is also still booming like wildfire. To put it into perspective, in 2000 the Charlotte MSA was only at 1.5 million population and was at 1.1 million in 1990. If OKC experienced a similar boom, which is possible but unlikely at least to that extent, this MSA would be flirting with 2.5 million people in the year 2030.

[Rover]

There's absolutely nothing 'sad' about looking forward to Costco coming to OKC. I'm guessing if I paid 3x as much to buy the same groceries at Whole Foods then it would be far more acceptable to you? What about furniture and/or TV's? What's so positive about buying them at an expensive store? I just picked up a 39" JVC LED TV for $160 at Sam's a few days ago. Try getting that price in your definition of an upscale store. As for furniture, the stuff I buy at Sam's is much nicer and cheaper than even stuff Mathis Brothers puts in their scratch and dent area.

I'm guessing shopping on Amazon is totally not cool either - since that is the epitome of warehouse shopping (literally).

I live within a mile of Sam's in Edmond, so I'm there at least 2-3 times a week. I love that I can go in at 7am, and shop basically an empty store and be done with it. Not to mention their markdowns and clearance area can't be beat.

I'm totally 7th grade creepy excited to have a second local warehouse choice. And, on the upside, I apparently won't have to worry about waiting in line behind you!

Not to mention the above average paying jobs and competition it brings to the area. Win/Win

Never said it wouldn't be good. Didn't say Costco was creepy. I like and shop Costco. But the obsession over whether Tulsa gets one first IS creepy and sort of childlike. Who cares which city found an acceptable location first? Who cares which one opens first? One WILL open in OKC. Great.

[BBatesokc]

Never said it wouldn't be good. Didn't say Costco was creepy. I like and shop Costco. But the obsession over whether Tulsa gets one first IS creepy and sort of childlike. Who cares which city found an acceptable location first? Who cares which one opens first? One WILL open in OKC. Great.

I'd agree with that and I apologize I didn't read that into your initial post. I agree I don't care who gets one first. I personally don't pay much attention to Tulsa because what happens in Tulsa doesn't directly effect me. If they get one, 'great' but I'm going to drive to Tulsa to patronize it and I doubt I'd stop by even if I'm in the area. However, you put one within a few miles of my home and I'm certain to ad it to my rotation!

[josh]

Charlotte has 2.4 million in its MSA. OKC is at 1.3 as of this year. So actually its a little less than double but almost. Charlotte is also still booming like wildfire. To put it into perspective, in 2000 the Charlotte MSA was only at 1.5 million population and was at 1.1 million in 1990. If OKC experienced a similar boom, which is possible but unlikely at least to that extent, this MSA would be flirting with 2.5 million people in the year 2030.

Charlotte MSA didn't grow by 900k in 12 years. It added already populated counties to its MSA definition.

It's an inflated population figure. If you went back to 2000 and added the counties, that were later added, to the 2000 figure it would go from 1.5 million to nearly 2 million or just over 1.9 million.

So essentially, the retroactive population figure for Charlotte in 2000 is nearly 2 million.

This should help you understand a bit better.

As you can see, between 2000 and 2012, the Charlotte MSA grew by a little over 300,000 and not by 900,000.

[David]

So in other words, in order to experience a similar boom we need to incorporate Tulsa?

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[AP]

I love Charlotte.

[josh]

So in other words, in order to experience a similar boom we need to incorporate Tulsa?

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It wasn't/isn't a boom per say as the population was already there and was just being incorporated on paper. But, in theory, sure. However, Tulsa is too large and too far away to cause a CSA to formed. In this theory, it would just take enough surrounding counties with a population total of 300,000. Those counties also have to have the right traffic commuting patterns to be incorporated.

[bchris02]

So in other words, in order to experience a similar boom we need to incorporate Tulsa?

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I think OKC would benefit if Tulsa was either 50 miles closer or 50 miles farther. One huge difference between the Piedmont area of North Carolina and OKC is our relative rural density is much higher and people commute much, much farther than they do in Oklahoma. I have friends who act like driving from Norman to downtown OKC is a big deal. I tell them that in the Charlotte metropolitan area, I drove up to 45 minutes to different areas to do things all the time and didn't think anything of it.

Interesting that if Charlotte's MSA only grew by 300,000 between 2000-2012, then that's not much more in actual numbers than OKC's growth during that time period. Would have never guessed that thanks to the national media hype surrounding Charlotte during the 2000s.

[josh]

I think OKC would benefit if Tulsa was either 50 miles closer or 50 miles farther. One huge difference between the Piedmont area of North Carolina and OKC is our relative rural density is much higher and people commute much, much farther than they do in Oklahoma. I have friends who act like driving from Norman to downtown OKC is a big deal. I tell them that in the Charlotte metropolitan area, I drove up to 45 minutes to different areas to do things all the time and didn't think anything of it.

Interesting that if Charlotte's MSA only grew by 300,000 between 2000-2012, then that's not much more in actual numbers than OKC's growth during that time period. Would have never guessed that thanks to the national media hype surrounding Charlotte during the 2000s.

I just looked it up and I was going off your 1.5 million population in 2000 claim. It seems you were incorrect. Charlotte's MSA population in 2000 was 1.33 million, not 1.5 million. This is the pre-2013 defined MSA. So, basically the Charlotte MSA (pre-2013 definition) grew from 1.33 million in 2000 to 1.86 million in 2013. That's an average of 40,000 a year. During the 2000s, Charlotte had two straight years of over 60k grow which was over 4 percent growth then they followed with a 53k growth year.

OKC itself grew by 224,000 between 2000 and 2013 which is an average of 17,000 a year. The highest growth year for OKC's MSA was 2011 with 23,000 new residents.

So, it's fair to say Charlotte definitely had some very "boom" years during the 2000s, but overall the decade or the last 13 years, averaged out, was not anything spectacular compared to other places. However, OKC was and is nowhere near the numbers Charlotte put up in the 2000s or puts up today.

[bchris02]

I just looked it up and I was going off your 1.5 million population in 2000 claim. It seems you were incorrect. Charlotte's MSA population in 2000 was 1.33 million, not 1.5 million. This is the pre-2013 defined MSA. So, basically the Charlotte MSA (pre-2013 definition) grew from 1.33 million in 2000 to 1.86 million in 2013. That's an average of 40,000 a year. During the 2000s, Charlotte had two straight years of over 60k grow which was over 4 percent growth then they followed with a 53k growth year.

OKC itself grew by 224,000 between 2000 and 2013 which is an average of 17,000 a year. The highest growth year for OKC's MSA was 2011 with 23,000 new residents.

So, it's fair to say Charlotte definitely had some very "boom" years during the 2000s, but overall the decade or the last 13 years, averaged out, was not anything spectacular compared to other places. However, OKC was and is nowhere near the numbers Charlotte put up in the 2000s or puts up today.

According the census.gov, the Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill NC-SC MSA came in at 1,499,293 in 2000 and was at 1,162,093 in 1990. In 2010 the population was 1,758,038, and that was before the new counties were added. Adding the new counties, especially Iredell, was necissary because a huge portion of the population boom was in Iredell county and development was pretty much contiguous with Charlotte. Not having Iredell county in the MSA was like if Cleveland county wasn't part of OKC's MSA.

http://www.census.gov/population/cen...c-t3/tab03.txt

[Pete]

We are way, way off topic here.

Back to discussing Costco please.

[BrettM2]

Tulsa would have been back on track long before OKC.

In all seriousness, Steve said on the chat that nothing in his chain is showing Costco as being close to a deal. Pete, are your sources still saying otherwise?