Alley's End (4th & EK Gaylord)

[Pete]

First impression I like the first option better, probably because they provided a rendering of how it interacts with the curve of Gaylord so I can envision it being there. This doesn't have to be a tower to activate that side of the road with a nice street wall.

I assume they would have been posted if they existed, but are there any more renderings of the Bomasada proposal? It looks so...cookie cutter modern apartment.

Bomasada didn't submit renderings, just the site plan plus a couple of their projects that are similar.

Just picture a 6-story Metropolitan and that would likely be darn close.

[David]

Oh, that makes more sense. Looking at the pictures plus the site plan I couldn't really reconcile the concept as a whole.

A 6-story Metropolitan does sound pretty good.

[David]

LOL. Looking at their projects they really like the name Metropolitan. That and Enclave.

[Pete]

This would be called The Liam.

Perhaps we can lobby for Enclave.

[Ross MacLochness]

Haha "the Enclave" like its some bougie oasis keeping out the riff-raff of the hip but s C a R y downtown.

[hoya]

The Liam sucks as a name.

[catch22]

Why does everything need to have name? Especially when the names are drawn out of a consultant’s hat on what sounds sanitized enough to not offend anybody.

[ChrisHayes]

I too like the Rose Rock proposal. It's unique! That being said, I would like a residential component to it. Maybe an apartment tower on the vacant land behind it. And instead of that copper looking coating, how about a screen of some sort that's playing news, or whatever? Kinda like at the new NewsOK building, but much bigger.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm asking a real question-how many residential units are currently in the Urban Core, and how many are already under development? Next-any idea what the current demand is?

[hfry]

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...906#post524906
Pete has the best list for residential units, as well as hotel and others, already compiled. But looks to be a little over 5,000 units.

[SharkSandwich]

Rose Rock is much better. The other one looks like cheap suburban crap.

[BoulderSooner]

Rose Rock is much better. The other one looks like cheap suburban crap.

there is no picture of what the other looks like

[HOT ROD]

I honestly hope somehow both proposals can be built. have them on top of one another.

Underground parking with entry at the viaduct, retail on first and maybe second floor (including the bank branch), bank offices on 3-5 then apartments on the 6-12+ (hopefully higher). STL is right, there MUST be retail on this gateway corner and I also think the development should mirror Boulevard Tower down the street. ...

^ THIS is mixed use development and THIS corner begs for this sort of plan. Also, by combining the elements of the two we get a mid to highrise vs. the continuation of stick built 6 floor and less apartments.

[Pete]

Here's the lead business reporter for our state's largest newspaper not so subtly advocating for the Bomasada apartment proposal. This is a direct result of his completely unprofessional and unethical relationship with Jonathan Russell, who uses this reporter as his personal PR firm.

Russell owns the lot that Bomasada has under contract. The Rose Rock proposal would only involve the city's property.

Remember when Russell summoned the Oklahoman to do a story on the facade they unexpectedly revealed when working on Russell's redevelopment, The Rise? They ran out there with a camera crew and did this whole story at a time Russell was getting a lot of heat due to very long delays at The Rise and was facing lawsuits from multiple tenants. No matter that exact facade had already been submitted as part of their design proposal more than a year before, something the Oklahoman didn't bother to check or closely follow the subject of their own story to have known better.

THIS is the type of crap that is so very bad for Oklahoma City. It's called Access Journalism and involves favor-trading to get stories and news rather than working hard and finding information on your own. It's a practice universally criticized and avoided by any respectable journalist and news organizations due to the massive conflicts of interest inherent in such a 'relationship'.

If you pay attention, you'll see several developers are treated like rock stars by the Oklahoman; "A street should be named after x!" While most are just trying to control the news and push their own agenda. All the while, angling for millions in public incentives, presently or in the past or future. Whether the projects deserve them or not involves real work and investigation and calculations and objective analysis and perspective. Or often, a developer is working towards a demolition or some other politically difficult situation (OG&E & Rainey Williams leap to mind).

And a huge percentage of reporting by the Oklahoman on these projects is driven by whether the reporter has a personal relationship with the subject or not. Or if the subject is an advertiser in their publication.

[Rover]

So, you think parking is the better use of this spot than residential? We know how you feel about the Oklahoman, but we don't know how you feel about the proposals.

[Pete]

So, you think parking is the better use of this spot than residential? We know how you feel about the Oklahoman, but we don't know how you feel about the proposals.

I don't understand your question. One proposal is for a mixed-use of parking, office, restaurant and retail space. The other is for apartments and a parking structure.

[DallasOkie086]

Absolutely the Rose Rock proposal wins. Remember this is not showcasing any of the retail space. If i think about a long impact, the commercial space will have a much larger influence on the area than some apartments which look like they can be built anywhere.

[Colbafone]

Absolutely the Rose Rock proposal wins. Remember this is not showcasing any of the retail space. If i think about a long impact, the commercial space will have a much larger influence on the area than some apartments which look like they can be built anywhere.

This is exactly what drives me crazy about downtown OKC. There are several new/newer developments that absolutely don't look like they belong in a downtown. Zero uniqueness to them. Be they hotels,offices, larger apartment complexes or restaurants. I LOVE infill. I love adding density and hotel rooms to our downtown. I just don't really like those suburban urban developments downtown. I already like the Rose Rock design better. I'm just not too worried about adding housing RIGHT NOW because we HAVE TO build up density. Let the right developments come. They'll certainly be there. No need to just accept everything.

Granted, we don't know what the Bomasada stuff looks like yet, but if it looks like any other 4 story apartment complex that could be on Jenkins and Constitution on Norman, or Memorial and Penn in OKC, that's a hard pass from me.

Give me the qualify use of space and character of that Rose Rock plan everytime.

[baralheia]

This is exactly what drives me crazy about downtown OKC. There are several new/newer developments that absolutely don't look like they belong in a downtown. Zero uniqueness to them. Be they hotels,offices, larger apartment complexes or restaurants. I LOVE infill. I love adding density and hotel rooms to our downtown. I just don't really like those suburban urban developments downtown. I already like the Rose Rock design better. I'm just not too worried about adding housing RIGHT NOW because we HAVE TO build up density. Let the right developments come. They'll certainly be there. No need to just accept everything.

Granted, we don't know what the Bomasada stuff looks like yet, but if it looks like any other 4 story apartment complex that could be on Jenkins and Constitution on Norman, or Memorial and Penn in OKC, that's a hard pass from me.

Give me the qualify use of space and character of that Rose Rock plan everytime.

That's exactly why I favor the Rose Rock proposal as well. We definitely do need more residential, but we want urban residential in the core. It needs to be tall and dense, and not following a more suburban layout like the submitted Bomasada proposal. They didn't even submit renderings. To me, the Bomasada proposal is half-baked.

[SagerMichael]

I prefer the Rose Rock proposal... but I’m surprised a lot of you guys also agree. Seems like the #1 thing people fuss about is adding more housing to the core

[G.Walker]

I prefer the Bomasada proposal, more residential is always good. As you have persons 24/7. Office, after 5 & on the weekends it will be dead. It wouldn't be hard to add a retail component to the Bomasada proposal. All these plans are preliminary so adjustments can be made.

[catcherinthewry]

Here's the lead business reporter for our state's largest newspaper not so subtly advocating for the Bomasada apartment proposal. This is a direct result of his completely unprofessional and unethical relationship with Jonathan Russell, who uses this reporter has his personal PR firm.

Russell owns the lot that Bomasada has under contract. The Rose Rock proposal would only involve the city's property.

Remember when Russell summoned the Oklahoman to do a story on the facade they unexpectedly revealed when working on Russell's redevelopment, The Rise? They ran out there with a camera crew and did this whole story at a time Russell was getting a lot of heat due to very long delays at The Rise and was facing lawsuits from multiple tenants. No matter that exact facade had already been submitted as part of their design proposal more than a year before, something the Oklahoman didn't bother to check or closely follow the subject of their own story to have known better.

THIS is the type of crap that is so very bad for Oklahoma City. It's called Access Journalism and involves favor-trading to get stories and news rather than working hard and finding information on your own. It's a practice universally criticized and avoided by any respectable journalist and news organizations due to the massive conflicts of interest inherent in such a 'relationship'.

If you pay attention, you'll see several developers are treated like rock stars by the Oklahoman; "A street should be named after x!" While most are just trying to control the news and push their own agenda. All the while, angling for millions in public incentives, presently or in the past or future. Whether the projects deserve them or not involves real work and investigation and calculations and objective analysis and perspective. Or often, a developer is working towards a demolition or some other politically difficult situation (OG&E & Rainey Williams leap to mind).

And a huge percentage of reporting by the Oklahoman on these projects is driven by whether the reporter has a personal relationship with the subject or not. Or if the subject is an advertiser in their publication.

Lackmeyer seems to have a very casual relationship with "reporting". I know this was under his blog so it is not considered reporting, but today he had a byline on the front page concerning the bicycle death that was more opinion than reporting.

[Pete]

Lackmeyer seems to have a very casual relationship with "reporting". I know this was under his blog so it is not considered reporting, but today he had a byline on the front page concerning the bicycle death that was more opinion than reporting.

His chats are printed in the paper as well, under his byline.

[catcherinthewry]

His chats are printed in the paper as well, under his byline.

Yes, but they are obviously opinion just like Berry Tramel's Q&A's, so I have no problem with that. I had an issue with some of his reporting being opinion but in the recent past they've started labeling it as opinion under his byline so they've made a little progress. Today's article brings up some important issues that this city has with cycling but he clearly inserts his view into the article.

[Pete]

Berry Tramel is a columnist, only opinion and human interest angles, so there is never any confusion about his writing. Once in a while, he'll write a game report but there is no confusing that, either.

Writers should be reporters or columnists, not both... And at the very least if you are going to try and be both, each article should be clearly labeled as falling clearly into one category or the other. And the two should never, ever be mixed together.


From the Society of Professional Journalists:

Reporters are not columnists or editorial writers. SPJ’s recommendation is that reporters not take a position on an issue that they are covering. They may do so privately, but they definitely should not do so in a public or visible way.