NFL in OKC

[bluedogok]

Nothing needs to be built in Stroud to serve both cities, it needs to be in one or the other because the majority of the time it will be used for something other than football. Especially if it was a retractable roof. The reason why Arlington works is that area is already fully developed and there is a third of the distance between Dallas and Fort Worth than there is between OKC and Tulsa. People from all over the state and bordering states travel to games in Norman and Stillwater. People from all over the region travel to Denver for Broncos games and Dallas for Cowboys games. I would think putting a stadium in Stroud is a non-starter for potential owners and the league.

[venture]

Nothing needs to be built in Stroud to serve both cities, it needs to be in one or the other because the majority of the time it will be used for something other than football. Especially if it was a retractable roof. The reason why Arlington works is that area is already fully developed and there is a third of the distance between Dallas and Fort Worth than there is between OKC and Tulsa. People from all over the state and bordering states travel to games in Norman and Stillwater. People from all over the region travel to Denver for Broncos games and Dallas for Cowboys games. I would think putting a stadium in Stroud is a non-starter for potential owners and the league.

Yup exactly. I would think if such a facility were built, a bowl game and even a bid for the title game would be put in.

[adaniel]

Not to mention, God would probably just take out any stadium there with a massive F5.

[Hollywood]

While the land is available, let's just build a stadium on the Mother Road near Arcadia. Easy access via 66 from the 35, then create a more efficient route off of 44 for the Tulsa area fans. Win.

[OKCisOK4me]

While the land is available, let's just build a stadium on the Mother Road near Arcadia. Easy access via 66 from the 35, then create a more efficient route off of 44 for the Tulsa area fans. Win.

That would never happen. This thing would create one helluva tax base. OKC wouldn't give that up to Edmond or Stroud. The only way they'd give it up is if Tulsa sold a better deal.

Mind you...my above scenario is only if anyone was crazy enough to move/purchase an NFL franchise to Oklahoma which I still think is asinine.

[Laramie]

Just wish Oklahoma City and Tulsa would have planned together on a strategic airport to serve both communities. Each city has invested a lot in airport upgrades (Will Rogers World/Tulsa International).

What impact would high-speed rail have between OKC-TUL?*


There are some great arguments both pro & con for building a stadium; any easy solutions? Oklahoma City has the track record for taking on projects of this magnitude. It is encouraging that there will probably be some kind of stadium on a MAPS (2017) initiative which could include a private-public partnership development.

The arguments & concerns have ranged from:

1) We can't build a huge stadium (50,000 plus); it would be too spacious for our current needs.

2) Build it small; later expand--costs could exceed construction's initial investment.

3) We build now; we will be in a position to bid on events.

Have we learned from experience? The indoor sports arena initially cost $90 million (MAPS I); we're added $100 million (MAPS for HOOPS) in renovations.

Could feasibility assessments; if completed answer these questions?

Oklahoma City is at the crossroads. Our projected population (2015-2020) could range from 1.3 to 1.6 million. True there are arguments that San Antonio built a dome and never got an NFL franchise (Wouldn't hold my breath). San Antonio's proximity (Houston, Dallas) may have been the biggest factor. Having three NCAA Division I football universities within a 150-mile radius isn't exactly a plus . That 150-miles radius (OKC-TUL-FORT SMITH, WICHITA, LAWTON-WICHITA FALLS) is what the NFL uses to gauge a city for potential expansion/relocation.

*Feasibility studies needed?

[HOT ROD]

OKC is already at 1.3 million at 2012. I'd project OKC to range 1.45 to 2.0 million between 2015-2020.

That said, while I know OKC could support the NFL today (particularly if Clay Bennett bought a team and that games would assuredly mostly be on Sundays/Mondays/Thursdays when OU does not have home games on Saturday); I want us to wait until 2020 to grow into the city we're building and THEN go after our second team (maybe third also with MLS). Again, we want it to be successful and NFL tends to be a different animal than the NBA.

Surely OKC is in a football state and surely if OKC didn't have the NBA then the city definitely could support NFL along with OU/OSU, but having the NBA means we need to properly nourish it then add another team after we've grown some more. Portland is at the point I'm talking about (2M metro) but I think OKC would be far more attractive when WE get there since we're in a football state (whereas OR really isn't despite the recent success of UofO).

As for the stadium, one does not need to build a HUGE stadium for the NFL like you do for college football. We could go for 55K-65K seats (something akin to Seattle's C-Link). I too am not sold on the retractable roof/domed idea; again - OKC is in football country. 2020 will be telling and if we make the projections everyone hopes for (and it appears that way) then I'd say OKC could begin planning for a NFL team with (say) MAPS 5.

[cagoklahoma]

Let's start marketing it as MAP5!

Personally, I think Harold Hamm would be a great NFL owner. I remember people (locals in particular) saying that OKC could not support a NBA team, even when the Hornets were here. We proved them wrong. Now we seem to forget what we have here and how much people here love sports. I think the group that woud suffer to most from the NFL in OKC would be OU football. Many of the non-alumni fans would, over time, make the transistion to the pros. It might take a generation, maybe two but I really think it would happen. I want to see what happens whent he OKC NFL team drafts a Univ. of Texas QB.

[rezman]

While the land is available, let's just build a stadium on the Mother Road near Arcadia. Easy access via 66 from the 35, then create a more efficient route off of 44 for the Tulsa area fans. Win.

No Thanks ... NIMBY!

There's already plenty of places to put an NFL stadium inside Okc.

[bchris02]

That is a cool idea. Of course I doubt Tulsa would go for it since they would probably argue you could just as easily "train" people up from OKC. It'll probably have to be an OKC centered project and throw a bone to Tulsa once it is settled.

True. Tulsa has no interest in supporting anything that will make them appear as Oklahoma's "second" metro even though that's what they are. Whenever something gets proposed for OKC, Tulsa comes in and tries to convince them that Tulsa is the better location, and whenever something gets completed in OKC, Tulsa tries to copy it bigger and better.

I also have strong doubts the OKC metro will reach the 2 million mark by 2020. That would be great if it happens but this would have to become a serious boomtown ala Austin or Charlotte in the 2000s. I don't see OKC's national perception as positive enough yet to make it happen.

[mmonroe]

Looked through the last few pages, didn't see this posted, but i'm posting it now!

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

[ljbab728]

Looked through the last few pages, didn't see this posted, but i'm posting it now!

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

See post 337 on previous page.

[mmonroe]

Just a littel blip of a link, no wonder i didn't see it...

[OKVision4U]

See post 337 on previous page.

The OKLAHOMA CITY LAND RAIDERS.... Just no the team from California I was hoping for. The silver & black has gotta go.

Go Raiders!!1

[OKVision4U]

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

Let's build the coolest 65000 seat stadium and get started.

[hoya]

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

Hey has anyone seen this link? I don't think it's been posted here before.

[Plutonic Panda]

There is this link I have found with very hard concentrating skills, and great specific knowledge pertain to the location of this link, I thought some people here might have missed it, so here it is: Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

[Fantastic]

There is this link I have found with very hard concentrating skills, and great specific knowledge pertain to the location of this link, I thought some people here might have missed it, so here it is: Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

I'm no stranger to sarcasm, sir

[mmonroe]

If I didn't know any better, and wasn't seasoned around here, i'd think you guys were being a bunch of asses.

[Plutonic Panda]

If I didn't know any better, and wasn't seasoned around here, i'd think you guys were being a bunch of asses.

That link has only been posted a thousand times, I was just making sure it was going to be posted 1001 times.

[Laramie]

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

Let's build the coolest 65000 seat stadium and get started.

NOT YET!

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

This ^link^ is possibly an attempt by the Oakland Raiders' Rusty Hilger and GM Reggie McKenzie to exploit Oklahoma City (A 'can do' city) and get a new 50,000-seat stadium built in Oakland. Will this get Oakland's attention? If they don't have a financed stadium plan by 2015, you will see cities like Los Angeles, Portland, Sacramento, San Antonio and possibly Oklahoma City make some serious offers.

The San Francisco-Oakland area in 2011 ranked as the 15th most overextended market among a list of the top 20:

Denver is most overextended market for professional sports - The Business Journals

Oklahoma City's reputation could draw some ire among potential NFL markets. Nashville had a slightly higher metropolitan area than OKC has now (2010 census) in 1998 (2000 census) when the NHL expanded & NFL relocated to Music City from Houston. There are other NFL teams with a similar situation as Oakland.

NFL Expansion: 20 Great Cities That Deserve an NFL Team | Bleacher Report

Call it a pipedream or pie in the sky; our 2015 census projections will give us some numbers to assess our ability to bring in one more major professional sport (MLS,NFL, NHL,MLB) before or after 2020.. Many of these projections are calculated by the number of new utility hook-ups and new housing starts along with other indicators.

Our growth has been 14.38% (2000-2010).

Oklahoma City's 2010 Census . . . . . (1,252,987)
Nashville's 2000 Census . . . . . . . . . (1,311,789)

Oklahoma City metro area continued growth last year and closed in on 1.3 million people | News OK

We should have approximately 1.5 million or more in 2020.

Largest Metropolitan Areas | Fastest Growing Metros | Census 2000 - Census Population Housing Change

[bluedogok]

Denver is most overextended market for professional sports - The Business Journals

Another meaningless poll, I seem to remember Kansas City heading the list a year or so ago. Losing has more effect of the "volatility in attendance and revenues" than anything else. Kansas City packed Arrowhead constantly even when they were mediocre, their attendance didn't get real bad until they were in an extended funk. I get season ticket emails from the Chiefs (bought OU-KU Arrowhead game tickets from them) and it wasn't until the past couple of seasons that they really dropped prices. The Royals drew well when they were winning. According to their methodology no place but the top 10 markets should have teams, not every team tries to approach the game like the Yankees or Dodgers.

Here, the Avs have sucked for a lot of years, before the lockout (not the last one, the one before) Avs tickets were hard to get. The Avs were pretty good in the pre-salary cap era. The Rockies seem to draw around 30,000 average no matter how good or bad they are. The Nuggets draw pretty well (only been to one Thunder-Nuggets game, it was full) and the Rapids have pretty decent crowds. I am in the 38,000 range on the Broncos season ticket waiting list.

[Laramie]

Interesting article on subsidizing professional sports franchises:

Excerpts from the link below:

"Milwaukee, which is the nation's 34th-largest TV market, is typical of the kinds of cities that end up providing their teams with annual cash payments, according to Long. "You've got Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Charlotte," she says. "Small cities who were luring a team from somewhere else, or otherwise second- or third-tier cities, are the common denominator."

...In 2010, the owners of the Indiana Pacers basketball team followed suit by demanding — and receiving — $30 million in "operating subsidies" over three years to remain at Conseco Fieldhouse, the arena that the city of Indianapolis had spent $183 million to build nine years earlier. (As in Glendale, Pacers owner Herb Simon, a billionaire real estate developer, paid just $1 a year rent.)

To pay off the initial Pacers arena cost — plus the $650 million that it sank into a new stadium for the Colts football team — Indianapolis' Capital Improvement Board had already cut off all of its arts and tourism grants the year before. To help fill the new gap, Mayor Greg Ballard funneled city property-tax revenues to the board, even as he asked city agencies to reduce library hours and close public pools because of budget shortfalls.


Do cities gain from subsidizing sports teams? | Al Jazeera America


Glendale, Arizona (NFL, NHL) is much like Arlington, Texas (MLB, NFL). Arlington which has about 100,000 more residents (than Glendale) is nestled between Dallas-Fort Worth. The City of Arlington built the 'Ballpark' and the NFL stadium was a private investment of Jerry Jones.

We (OKC) are going about building structures the right (correct) way--pay as you build. Some great lessons to be learned from Glendale and Indianapolis.

We know that the OKC downtown sports arena was built to accommodate a wide range of sports & entertainment events; not just a prompt for the NBA or NHL. It does help to have an anchor tenant like the Oklahoma City Thunder. Our penny sales taxes collected allow the venues that we build or renovate to be debt free.

[Snowman]

Do cities gain from subsidizing sports teams?

The situation is going to vary greatly on who the owner, the subsidies, owners goals and situation. I would not put much faith in the current owner of the Raiders to want to be a pillar of our community if this were actually serious, though it feels much more like a ploy for leverage in negotiations in California either in Oakland or LA. If I remember right at least one hockey team used threats to move to OKC before the Thunder where here, though in that case they could show market numbers to indicate it would be much more feasible the entertainment dollars were available and the stadium was already built. The situation can turn on a dime any time the team is sold, financial starts performing poorly, becomes a public relations hassle or they end up are just not good at owning a team. Moves to a city by an owner who is not part of the community tend to be because they are getting a sweetheart deal.

[Laramie]

Want to help map out OKC's future(?):

Oklahoma City is developing a new comprehensive plan, planOKC, and wants your help. The project includes an interactive online tool, CrowdGauge, to receive public input on how Oklahoma City residents can secure a healthy environment, community and economy for themselves. Learn more and interact with CrowdGauge by going online to planokc.org. --William Crum, Oklahoman


planOKC

I'm sure this is listed in some of the other threads on OKCTalk; however, we need a link in the sports area as well.

Your ideas are welcome … and wanted. So now’s the time to speak up and offer your two cents on what Oklahoma City should be, what it needs — or doesn’t — in the future.

What do you see for Oklahoma City's future? | News OK