Full list of proposed MAPS 4 projects

[RedDollar]

It looks like they should be...

“David Greenwell ‘not supporting’ MAPS 4 without ‘measurable outcomes’’

https://nondoc.com/2019/11/19/david-...tcomes-maps-4/

I’ve had the opportunity to talk to David quite a bit and he has always been a huge supporter of Maps in the past... he is a very intelligent and reasonable man.

I'm curious, since I've chosen not to be an Oklahoman internet subscriber, did The Oklahoman cover Greenwell's stance ?

Just the headlines I read at NewsOK, tells me they're playing their usual role of cheerleader for anything downtown and not providing any critical coverage of City Hall. If they do write anything close to critical, they quickly gloss it over with quotes from City zealots, i.e. the mess in the Boathouse District that's costing the Gen Fund a million dollars per year.

[Quicker]

I'm curious, since I've chosen not to be an Oklahoman internet subscriber, did The Oklahoman cover Greenwell's stance ?

Just the headlines I read at NewsOK, tells me they're playing their usual role of cheerleader for anything downtown and not providing any critical coverage of City Hall. If they do write anything close to critical, they quickly gloss it over with quotes from City zealots, i.e. the mess in the Boathouse District that's costing the Gen Fund a million dollars per year.

I didn’t see this reported anywhere but on this site but it deserves mentioning that they have come up with some pretty good work in the past ...

[kswright29]

I didn’t see this reported anywhere but on this site but it deserves mentioning that they have come up with some pretty good work in the past ...

Yes, there was an article in The Oklahoman last week, maybe Thursday?

[okatty]

^I read it there as well. Was covered and discussed.

[Miracle121]

Maps 4 question, is new state fair arena going to have ice making equipment for Echl hockey?

[OKCRT]

Maps 4 question, is new state fair arena going to have ice making equipment for Echl hockey?

I seriously doubt it. It's a glorified horse barn. Have to keep the cowboys happy.

[jedicurt]

Maps 4 question, is new state fair arena going to have ice making equipment for Echl hockey?

i am assuming it will have ice making equipment as when the originally gave their proposal, it had an entire set up for ice shows... it wouldn't be that difficult to adjust that for ice hockey as well, assuming an outside group will want to make the effort again. i'm not so sure the Dallas Stars ownership group will be so keen to after the mess that occurred just a few years ago when they tried to see about bringing their echl team here

[Rover]

I seriously doubt it. It's a glorified horse barn. Have to keep the cowboys happy.

Is your doubt based on any facts we know? Is having ice capability and having horse shows incompatible? Will the kids also be kept happy with basketball tournaments, Disney on Ice, concerts and other events, or do they have to be Cowboy kids to be happy with a new venue?

[Pete]

In case you haven't noticed, the Oklahoman has been running non-stop promotions for MAPS thinly disguised as journalism for the last month.

Their relationship with the Chamber, the Boathouse Foundation, the Energy, the Thunder and others results in borderline corrupt reporting.


And I say all this without taking a stance on MAPS4 one way or another. It's just one of the many ways that publication puts its own self-interest ahead of the community.

[Midtowner]

In case you haven't noticed, the Oklahoman has been running non-stop promotions for MAPS thinly disguised as journalism for the last month.

Their relationship with the Chamber, the Boathouse Foundation, the Energy, the Thunder and others results in borderline corrupt reporting.


And I say all this without taking a stance on MAPS4 one way or another. It's just one of the many ways that publication puts its own self-interest ahead of the community.

There's a larger discussion merited here, as the Oklahoman has never really been about journalism. It's always been a cheerleader for Chamber oriented activity. That doesn't always make what they're reporting wrong or bad, but it is always suspect.

[Plutonic Panda]

Are they getting paid money under the table by the city? What is their incentive to do this? I certainly have noticed the seemingly weekly articles put out that act as advertised ads for maps 4 and it is very weird.

[Pete]

The city and chamber feed them stories in exchange for favoritism and puff-pieces, the Thunder and Energy are major advertisers, they have a relationship with the Boathouse Foundation whereby the foundation promotes the Oklahoman at their events and in return gets non-stop PR and more puff pieces masquerading as reporting, etc., etc.

And in general, the Oklahoman is in bed with all the traditional powers-that-be, all of which are intertwined with the Chamber.

The Chamber and MAPS are also heavy advertisers. The conflicts are numerous and go way back.

[Zuplar]

I've noticed this as well and figured it was because they are scared MAPS might fail. It will probably be tighter than past MAPS votes, but most likely still pass.

[Laramie]

Interesting article in December 1, Oklahoman on city beautification efforts that would result from MAPS 4.

$30 million for MAPS 4 would include beautification projects:

Water stains mark the bridges and retaining walls along the Clara Luper Corridor on NE 23 Street in Oklahoma City. MAPS 4 includes funding for proposed beautification projects, including along the east and west entrances to the Clara Luper Corridor. [CHRIS LANDSBERGER/THE OKLAHOMAN]


MAPS 4 includes up to $5 million for potential land acquisition and remediation of the northeast corner of NE 23 Street and Martin Luther King Avenue, home to the former Smart Saver grocery store, which closed in August. [CHRIS LANDSBERGER/THE OKLAHOMAN]


The MAPS 4 proposal for beautification includes significant funding to improve the aesthetics of the currently drab corridor to Will Rogers World Airport along Meridian Avenue. [CHRIS LANDSBERGER/THE OKLAHOMAN]

Source: Darla Spice, staff writer for the Oklahoman
Sunday, December 1, 2019

Link: http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/...n/default.aspx

[Laramie]

All future MAPS initiatives will have greater challenges than its passage. Being debt free poses the next phase of which projects will receive priority.

There's also the question of discontinuing MAPS in favor of the penny sales tax becoming part of the permanent general fund mechanism. That's what many of us on this forum's content haven been about the premise of our city's direction.

Prior to MAPS, OKC was virtually stagnant in growth for many decades (1960-1980); yet our population continued to grow. We're seeing a boom in business and corporate growth--downtown housing, redevelopment and so forth.

We saw 2014 redirection for MAPS to address community & neighborhood needs. Now we have a $978 million plan to address some those needs--we can't seen to satisfy everyone's imagination of what MAPS needs are.

[Midtowner]

I like the referendum every few years. I'd hope to think that if this iteration of MAPS fails, and I think it will, the city fathers will put their heads together, figure out why, then pass something which gains more public support. If we had a permanent tax in there, we'd see lots more of the people's money spent on corporate welfare projects. MAPS 4 is bad enough.

[Pete]

We need a break between so it is clear to voters that passing creates a new tax.

I really hate the "this won't raise your taxes" propaganda because it's disingenuous at best.

[AP]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The latest <a href="https://twitter.com/NEWS9?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NEWS9</a> poll shows 72.6% of OKC voters support MAPS4, 19.9% oppose, 7.5% don’t know. Election is Dec 10th. <a href="https://twitter.com/cityofokc?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@cityofokc</a></p>&mdash; Karl Torp (@KarlTorpNews9) <a href="https://twitter.com/KarlTorpNews9/status/1201608124265877505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[AP]

I guess html is not working and I can't edit that post for some reason. Here is the link: https://twitter.com/KarlTorpNews9/st...08124265877505

"The latest ⁦‪@NEWS9‬⁩ poll shows 72.6% of OKC voters support MAPS4, 19.9% oppose, 7.5% don’t know. Election is Dec 10th. ⁦‪@cityofokc‬⁩" - @KarlTorpNews9

[jerrywall]

We need a break between so it is clear to voters that passing creates a new tax.

I really hate the "this won't raise your taxes" propaganda because it's disingenuous at best.

If they phrased it as "it will keep your taxes at their current level" would that be accurate enough?

I get what you're saying, but it's also fair to say it's not an increase over what people are paying now. Yes, they could let one end and then campaign a start up a new one, and it would be clearer. But short of doing that, I'm not sure if there is a perfect way to phrase it that someone wouldn't find disingenuous. Marketing it as a new tax would imply that if it passes then taxes would be higher than they are now, verses remaining the same or lowering (if it doesn't pass).

Also, is it techinically a new tax, or an extension of an existing one? (I assume the latter - just curious though)

[jerrywall]

I guess html is not working and I can't edit that post for some reason. Here is the link: https://twitter.com/KarlTorpNews9/st...08124265877505

"The latest ⁦‪@NEWS9‬⁩ poll shows 72.6% of OKC voters support MAPS4, 19.9% oppose, 7.5% don’t know. Election is Dec 10th. ⁦‪@cityofokc‬⁩" - @KarlTorpNews9

That seems awfully high for the support side...

[Pete]

Also, is it techinically a new tax, or an extension of an existing one? (I assume the latter - just curious though)

It is a new tax and it says so on the ballot.

[Urban Pioneer]

In 2009 the Gazette did a similar poll in conjunction with News9 via Sooner Poll. Is this the same arrangement or did News9 hire someone out of state and do it on their own? Those numbers seem huge.

[soonerguru]

It is a new tax and it says so on the ballot.

That is somewhat misleading. The tax sunsets, meaning that your taxes would go down if it is not renewed. Therefore, technically, it is a new tax, but if it is voted up, the tax rate would not go up, as it did with the Better Streets, Safer City (or whatever it was called). It would stay the same. So, if you vote YES, your sales tax will be at the same rate as it is currently. If you vote NO, the sales tax rate will go down.

[soonerguru]

I like the referendum every few years. I'd hope to think that if this iteration of MAPS fails, and I think it will, the city fathers will put their heads together, figure out why, then pass something which gains more public support. If we had a permanent tax in there, we'd see lots more of the people's money spent on corporate welfare projects. MAPS 4 is bad enough.

This is not going to fail but if it does, the next iteration of this will be far worse. There certainly won't be "human needs" items included, if you care about those things. The powers that be will conclude, rightly or wrongly, that the voters just want money for roads and infrastructure.