Ford Center improvements up for March 4 vote

[jbrown84]

I'm going to repost this because I don't think anyone saw it.

OKAY, to Andy, Solitude, and company:


I assume you have voted at least once in a presidential election. Do you mean to tell me that you agreed with 100% of the views of the candidate you voted for? Of course not. That never happens. But you vote for the person who you agree with the most, that you believe can lead the country in the right direction.

We have 2 choices:

(1) Improve the Ford Center and build a practice facility. Neither will be NBA exclusive and both will allow the city to move forward.

(2) We can vote against progress in the name of principle and drift into the history books as that city that almost made something of themselves.


Voting against this because you don't like the practice facility part is like voting for Huckabee instead of Obama because you disagree with his stance on nursing home reform. Please.

[HOT ROD]

Good analogy and very true.

I do see and appreciate the points of dissention though. I just really hope that those who dissent do so to improve the city (and perhaps the process) HOWEVER

There becomes time stop complaining and to start to act.

--------------------------------

I hope they will consider that what we have is what we have. Sure, going forward - we can improve or change what happened. We can vote in rules about how tax initiatives need to be submitted or we can vote in other issues (police, schools, roads, maps III, whatever).

BUT, based on what we have (and what we ahve is an almost sure shot for OKC becoming a permanent NBA city). And this hinging on the upgrade of the Ford Center and a practice facility (once a franchise is signed).

Based on that, and that only - Do YOU want to see OKC become one of the big boys, mentioned nightly on ESPN, TNT, CNN, all the networks during sports? Do YOU want to have a team owned by hometown owners who will NEVER sell regardless of attendance or advertising market? Do YOU want to have a "FOR SURE" TOP entertainment draw in OKC to participate in yourself or possibly take your family or guests or 'just have the option to be able to."

How do YOU feel about improving OKC? This would only be a 12 or 15 month extension so the tax will not go up. And once complete, the arena would be city owned where the city can participate in the revenue stream and recover the costs over time.

And not only that, you can figure that once we get OUR OWN HOMEOWNED team - that the upgraded Ford Center surely would bring in revenue streams that would make the arena useful for the next 20 years; and I'd expect afterwhich the owners might participate in building the next one.

Some of you argue why Bennett was willing to participate here (in Seattle) with a contribution but has not said anything about doing so in OKC. You have to remember, Bennett is in a Federal lawsuit with the city of Seattle. They are looking for ANYTHING, any slip-ups from OKC, the NBA, and expecially Bennett. And it would be a HUGE conflict-of-interest for Bennett to offer funding improvements to the Ford Center AT-THIS-TIME when he is so-far bound to a lease in Seattle's Key Arena for 2 more years; when he's arguing that Key Arena isn't sufficient yet HAS NOT OFFERED ANY DOLLARS FOR IT.

Furthermore, Bennett has NEVER announced the amount of 'contribution' he was willing to go in for the New Renton Arena - something which has pissed a number of Seattle Sonics fans who otherwise might be more favourable of him if he did list a 'reasonable' contribution for Seattle.

I think some of you need to back off of the negative propaganda about Schools, or Police, or 'well he offered this for them, why not us." and realize that NONE of that effects the question about updating Ford Center (nor is the last point even true).

It all boils down to this. We need to complete the Ford Center. We need to make it so it is not a LOW BUDGET arena. We need to squash what people around the nation are saying about Ford Center and make it a top knotch facility. We need to complete the original plan of MAPS (which was to start Ford Center barebones and enhance it later once we saw real probabilities of getting our own team).

Sure, I dont like how quick it is or that we have to decide before the NBA does. But think of it this way, by voting in favour of the Ford Center - you put the pressure on the NBA to grant this city a team. You show them that we are hungary for major-league entertainment. Voting YES shows the world that Oklahoma City is ready to join the big-leagues of cities and do what it takes to get there by owning its facility. Voting yes shows your OKC ownership group that you appreciate their spending over $350M of their dollars (total announced so far) to bring YOU a team of your own [believe me, it would be a very long time before they made that money back, even with a sweetheart lease since operating margins are so slim].

Irregardless of what you think of the Daily Disappointment and their endorsements or link to Bennett, Mick Cornett has obviously got a guarantee from Stern that OKC will get a team with these 'minimal' NBA additions. The bulk of the improvements are actually just to enhance the arena PERIOD - which in itself would make OKC more marketable and valuable as a facility.

Regardless if you believe you will see any tangible direct link between having a team translating into business and population growth - wouldn't it be nice to hear OKLAHOMA CITY ___ each time you turned on the news? Don't you think that message might cause people's opinions to eventually turn positive about your city? Most if not all of you have a positive image of Seattle - and I can almost promise it is because of our major league teams #1 since most probably have never visited (and even if you did, you KNEW about our teams first). dont you want the same for your city?

Personally I do. I live here, but I am from and love OKC. I want OKC to keep getting better (and most expats do also). Voting YES to extend the tax is just a small way to write OKC's name up there with other large and medium market big-league cities.

Chew on this, 40 years ago Seattle got its first major league team. Prior to that, not many people knew anything about Seattle other than the World's Fair (which actually is why we even got a team). The Sonics became the NAMEPLATE for Seattle, people all around the nation saw S E A T T L E on scoreboards and jerseys with those from NY, Chi, SF, LA (the BIG CITIES); so much so that now many of you like to think we are 'world class' and a large city like them (when we're not).

Tell me having a major-league team does not make your city better. Yes, Seattle was a great place before the Sonics but since having them, their contribution to this city is immeasurable - despite the current feeling that is mostly anti-Sonics.

And whether OKC gets the Sonics or the Hornets, you can bet that voting yes will get you a team before the Ford Center improvements are even likely finished.

So if nothing else, please vent on but come back to the question - Do you want to improve the Ford Center and increase OKC's chances (to 100&#37 of becoming the next NBA permanent city? ...

By improving the Ford Center, you 'hold a gun' to the NBA Board forcing them to grant you a team (either the Sonics, or Hornets, or expansion). By improving the Ford Center, you shut up all of the OKC haters around the nation who are AMAZED that OKC has such a cheap arena. By improving the Ford Center, you enhance OKC's chances of continuing to be on the top concert and sporting event circuits - and these do translate into economic value for the city which eventually comes back to you. By improving the Ford Center, you end up enhancing the current tenants - the CHL Blazers and the AF2 Yard Dawgs - who also use the facility. By improving the Ford Center, you increase the city's ability to capture additional revenue streams since they likely would be negotiated with the NBA franchise (and certainly during non NBA events). By improving the Ford Center, you improve OKC's TOP VENUE and therefore - attraction, which in itself improves Oklahoma City.

I say, Vote Yes to keep moving OKC forward. I hope those who were against now can at least agree that we can't let this one slip by because of the rhetoric or timeline - we need to keep OKC's Renaissance moving.

Please Vote YES!

[solitude]

I have supported many candidates for office where I have had to hold my nose as I voted for them. But I voted for them because the alternative was worse.

I don't like the way the NBA (read: team owners) handles a lot of things and are expecting local governments to pony up - or else. Quite a few here have read my concerns about what is and what is not public responsibility. I can list many reasons why cities should tread carefully in these dangerous waters. However, I now am persuaded and believe the alternative is worse.

I have concluded that an NBA team in Oklahoma City can be another ember that sparks even more fires lit under our growing and dynamic city. I could go on and list the many reasons, but others have done it much more eloquently here than I could. The bottom line is that I plan to vote 'YES' on March 4th and will encourage as many people as I can to do likewise.

[OU Adonis]

The bottom line is that I plan to vote 'YES' on March 4th and will encourage as many people as I can to do likewise.

[Karried]

lol....that is great.

[betts]

I'm not even sure how to say how pleased I am to read what you wrote, solitude, without sounding like a sap. Clearly, for you, the entire decision process was very well thought out and heartfelt, and I had to admire that even while disagreeing with some of your earlier points.

[Easy180]

I have supported many candidates for office where I have had to hold my nose as I voted for them. But I voted for them because the alternative was worse.

I don't like the way the NBA (read: team owners) handles a lot of things and are expecting local governments to pony up - or else. Quite a few here have read my concerns about what is and what is not public responsibility. I can list many reasons why cities should tread carefully in these dangerous waters. However, I now am persuaded and believe the alternative is worse.

I have concluded that an NBA team in Oklahoma City can be another ember that sparks even more fires lit under our growing and dynamic city. I could go on and list the many reasons, but others have done it much more eloquently here than I could. The bottom line is that I plan to vote 'YES' on March 4th and will encourage as many people as I can to do likewise.

Very nice solitude...Not a perfect proposal but I think the positives definitely outweigh the negatives...The NBA may not fix all of our problems but it will damn sure keep the momentum going

It really is an exciting time for us Okies

[HOT ROD]

solitude.

I wasn't writing that exclusively for you, but I am glad that 1) you were able to express your opinions and 2) that you were able to think out of the box a little and consider the big picture.

I think you have some valid points and certainly they need to be addressed. I just think (and think you agree now) that for this particular issue that's on the table is what we need to focus right now.

You're right, the alternative to the NBA is a step back to 1970 when OKC was arguably worse than many regional cities it's well ahead of today.

I appreciate the long and hard thought you have given to your decision, your commentary certainly gives food for thought and gets people like me to really explain ourselves of why we support. It's very good debate and I hope you or others don't feel that I 'just refused or disregarded your views' or anything.

Im from Seattle, and I WONT vote for a new arena for the Sonics - for almost all of the concerns you listed. BUT I think OKC is different (and not because Seattle is so world class, this city just started a LONG time ago whereas OKC is brand new).

And being brand new... sometimes you have to put forth a little extra effort if you will so people will accept and let OKC in the club.

Anyways, I wont belabor with additional reasons to vote Yes. But I am glad to see that you will vote yes AND FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT. That is most important, vote your conscious but definitely have as much of the facts (that's my motto).

Your points fit point-on here in Seattle, but not so much YET for Oklahoma City since your city is 'new.'

It's all going to be worth it to attend those games again but this time in a TOP facility. ... with somewhere to drop off and entertain the kids... and with your own team. ...

Again, congratulations!

[gmwise]

I welcome a pro sports team, but i don't think taxing people who would never go to a game is fair, I don't plan on voting for a MAPS FOR MILLIONAIRES.
I think if the City/Sonics want this they should tax the fans, charged them an additional user tax on top of the tickets, the hotel taxes raised them to 10%, but don't delay the needs of the City for a few fans.
If after a NBA team was here for 5 years, yea I can do that, but I just don't trust the sincerity of these people.
Nor do I trust Little Micky, somebody is getting a kickback somewhere.

[jbrown84]

The Ford Center is NOT an NBA exclusive venue.

If that's your attitude, then I better not ever hear about you attending any events at the Ford Center.

[okctvnewsguy]

NBA in OKC, HA!, I work in Tv news (obviously) and I came from NY. One thing I am beginning to notice about Oklahoma, is that <engage rant mode>people here for some reason cannot stand change. A new development wants to take over an unused corner or part of a lot that is grass, and neighbors who haven't left their houses in 300 years start attending every city council meeting protesting the developers plans. "OH MY GOD! MY CHILDREN WALK BY THAT LOT EVERY DAY, THEY CAN'T HAVE ANY CONSTRUCTION THERE!" Not to mention that the new shopping center will bring oh, about 13 million dollars in new revenue into the city. They defeat the plans the council votes no, and they stop going to the city council meetings. If you want to be a forward thinking city, embrace change, look to the future, its just EXTENDING AN ALREADY EXISTING TAX! for 12 months... a year... that's NOTHING! VOTE YES!!! BRING IT ON!<rant mode off>

[betts]

I welcome a pro sports team, but i don't think taxing people who would never go to a game is fair, I don't plan on voting for a MAPS FOR MILLIONAIRES.
I think if the City/Sonics want this they should tax the fans, charged them an additional user tax on top of the tickets, the hotel taxes raised them to 10%, but don't delay the needs of the City for a few fans.
If after a NBA team was here for 5 years, yea I can do that, but I just don't trust the sincerity of these people.
Nor do I trust Little Micky, somebody is getting a kickback somewhere.

Have you read the preceding 12 pages of posts? I don't want to reiterate what has already been said, but the MAPS for Millionaires catchphrase is getting old. As has been said, not everyone uses city parks, but we all pay for them, not everyone goes to Redhawks games, but we all paid for that stadium, not everyone goes to the Civic Center, rides down the Bricktown canal, bikes along the Oklahoma River, goes to the Art museum, the Public Library or the Botanical tube, but we all paid for them. There were a lot of naysayers before MAPS was passed too, and I see excellent things that have come from it. If I only pay taxes to support things I actually use, then I'm not thinking about my fellow citizens, and we become a city of individuals, rather than a community. If there were hard and fast data supporting the hypothesis that the Sonics owners (if it's even the Sonics who move here) will make a lot of money from this team, then I would be far more interested in having them pay for the improvements. But, there's a lot of data suggesting they may make no money or lose money. The way I see it, we'll pay for this very low dollar (by professional team standards) upgrade to the Ford Center, and then, if we get an NBA team, we'll get annual data that shows us how the owners are doing financially. If they're raking in the cash, then any future upgrades could be on them, IMO. I also happen to agree with a seat tax, and I have no problems with a hotel and restaurant tax, but both of those require we pass bonds, and because of the debt service, we'll end up paying for the arena upgrades several times over. I feel those taxes should be instituted, and monies saved for any future improvements that will be needed. But people have to look at more than just going to basketball games. You have to look at what having a team could do for our city, how it could encourage downtown development over suburban development, what kind of exposure it gives us in the national media. If people think it through carefully, and they still feel they cannot support the tax proposal, I realize we all have different priorities and vision for our city. But a knee jerk "no money for millionaires" reaction to this proposal is not doing your city justice. Make an intelligent, reasoned decision, and some of us here might disagree with you, but we'll respect your right to a different opinion.

[metro]

NBA in OKC, HA!, I work in Tv news (obviously) and I came from NY. One thing I am beginning to notice about Oklahoma, is that <engage rant mode>people here for some reason cannot stand change. A new development wants to take over an unused corner or part of a lot that is grass, and neighbors who haven't left their houses in 300 years start attending every city council meeting protesting the developers plans. "OH MY GOD! MY CHILDREN WALK BY THAT LOT EVERY DAY, THEY CAN'T HAVE ANY CONSTRUCTION THERE!" Not to mention that the new shopping center will bring oh, about 13 million dollars in new revenue into the city. They defeat the plans the council votes no, and they stop going to the city council meetings. If you want to be a forward thinking city, embrace change, look to the future, its just EXTENDING AN ALREADY EXISTING TAX! for 12 months... a year... that's NOTHING! VOTE YES!!! BRING IT ON!<rant mode off>

I repeat what betts said, have you not read the last several pages of posts? Almost everyone on this site is in favor of this vote, only a select few have openly opposed this vote, and with no factual reasons stated for that matter. not sure if you live in your "news bubble", but most of OKC is pretty progressive right now, especially from where we came from 10 years ago. On the other hand, the news media in this town is not progressive, and usually reports fluff instead of the actual stories us listeners want to hear. We want real investigative in your face journalism that hasn't been reported in years.

[jbrown84]

In other words, you're preaching to the choir, tvnewsguy.

[Doug Loudenback]

I have supported many candidates for office where I have had to hold my nose as I voted for them. But I voted for them because the alternative was worse.

I don't like the way the NBA (read: team owners) handles a lot of things and are expecting local governments to pony up - or else. Quite a few here have read my concerns about what is and what is not public responsibility. I can list many reasons why cities should tread carefully in these dangerous waters. However, I now am persuaded and believe the alternative is worse.

I have concluded that an NBA team in Oklahoma City can be another ember that sparks even more fires lit under our growing and dynamic city. I could go on and list the many reasons, but others have done it much more eloquently here than I could. The bottom line is that I plan to vote 'YES' on March 4th and will encourage as many people as I can to do likewise.

I, too, want to compliment you on your post, Solitude. You certainly turned up every bush and looked under every rock in reaching your conclusion!

And, by the way, OU Adonis, that was a clever reply!

[okctvnewsguy]

I wish we got to do more fluff fluff is fun to shoot!

[gmwise]

jb/others,
its not that i am against the NBA, I just think we ought to focus on the work as a city we need to do, this is a want, not a need,we have still many things to do before I want a NBA team.
I think by hijacking MAPS for a few, is more like a teenager wanting to party without working for it.
We need to fix parking, we need to do a host of other things that would make the area accesiable, clean and safe.
No one will remeber who won/lost at the game but you can be sure they will remeber the "hell it was to park, or how litter the streets and the roads was when they droved into the area, or worst yet being a victim of crime.
We need to see some real proof of NBA sincerity and continued interest in OKC.
I believe ALL "users" ought to pay a user fee on top of tickets, wheather its the NBA or other.

[betts]

jb/others,
its not that i am against the NBA, I just think we ought to focus on the work as a city we need to do, this is a want, not a need,we have still many things to do before I want a NBA team.

I think that's fine. Some of us feel otherwise, but I can understand you feeling that way. If you're a big NBA fan, you realize there are only 30 teams, and chances to get a team don't come along every day or even every decade. If you're not, you may never care.

We need to see some real proof of NBA sincerity and continued interest in OKC.
I believe ALL "users" ought to pay a user fee on top of tickets, wheather its the NBA or other.

Sadly, this is a seller's market. We don't get to make terms. There are plenty of other cities who would happily take the Sonics or Hornets off our hands. I believe that if the NBA weren't sincerely interested in OKC, Clay Bennett would never have been allowed to file for relocation, but I have no proof of that. I also think that Mick Cornett may know more than he's saying, as I don't think he would have proposed this vote if he didn't think there was a really good chance we are going to get a team, but this is pretty much speculation on my part.

I think having an NBA team would be a great thing for Oklahoma City, and I'm willing to put up with a less than perfect plan to achieve that. But, I'm fine with a user fee on tickets. Although, technically, we should then put a user fee on every single thing that's paid for with special MAPS taxes or bond issues, as they're not used by everyone. And of course, one could then argue that I shouldn't have to pay the portion of property taxes that goes to schools, because I have no school age children. As I said earlier, if we all are selfish and want only to pay for things we use personally, it isolates us and removes the sense of community we get when we do things because it's good for the community, not simply ourselves. I'm happy to pay my property taxes, because I like my neighbors having good schools for their children, and I'm happy to pay for other things that I believe are good for the community, whether I ever plan to use them or not.

[metro]

gmwise, um what parking problem are you referring to? I think we've debated the downtown parking issue to death. I live/work in downtown OKC and I do not feel there is a parking problem. If I'm a chronic user of it and don't feel/see it as a problem, how is it a problem for suburbanites who may use it once or twice a month? As we've stated hundreds of times, it's a perception and attitude problem more than anything. Show us any major city our size or larger with cheaper on average parking fees. FYI I was just in San Fran a few months ago and paid $37 for a 12 hour parking lot and it wasn't even a nice lot. Much crappier than the ones in Bricktown. And this was on a Wednesday night at about 2am until 10am the next morning. I've paid well over $20 for parking lots in downtown Dallas for crying out loud. Part of living urban is not convenience and surface parking, if you want that, go to Quail Springs Mall.

[betts]

Now that I'm reading your post, metro, it reminded me of past Hornet's games. I parked at the Santa Fe garage for $5 when I went to games. I had a covered walkway almost all the way to the Ford Center, never had trouble finding a parking space, even when the games were sellouts, never felt unsafe, even if I was walking back to my car alone, and never had to wait to get out of the parking lot. I felt game night parking was an unbelievably good deal.

[OSUFan]

jb/others,
I believe ALL "users" ought to pay a user fee on top of tickets, wheather its the NBA or other.

I've seen this arguement a lot but I don't think people understand it is not feasable. The only way you could pay for the improvements would be to start adding $10-$20 per ticket. Is the NBA going to work if tickets are $20 more? Will people still go to concerts if they have to pay $20 more. If we start paying for things by user fees nothing will ever get done. Would we have libraries, a canal or the Bricktown Ballpark?

[jbrown84]

We need to fix parking, we need to do a host of other things that would make the area accesiable, clean and safe.
No one will remeber who won/lost at the game but you can be sure they will remeber the "hell it was to park, or how litter the streets and the roads was when they droved into the area, or worst yet being a victim of crime.
.

Parking, litter, and crime.

None of those are MAPS-related, and I don't see how any of them are a problem downtown. Parking is arguable, but I agree with metro that it's all about perception. The latter two issues... well I simply have no idea where you're coming from on that.

[Karried]

I have to agree.. I've never experienced any of the issues above.

The city was praised by everyone regarding cleanliness.

Parking was a non-issue everytime we went to big events .. we always parked in the Underground parking connected to the Cox Center and walked through to the Ford..

Crime. I've never felt threatened or harassed or worried in the least.. which is amazing in such a large crowd..

[jsenter]

Parking? How can that possibly be an issue. When I went to Hornets games, I always parked at Santa Fe, Galleria, or under the Cox Center. I never had a problem finding a space to park. I think the "parking" problem downtown is more a problem of people not wanting to pay to park, which is part of downtowns everywhere.

[Architect2010]

The parking issue isn't a problem I think. I think the problem is that people are too lazy to walk a couple of blocks from where they are parked to where they are heading. I know there is a huge parking lot off of main in Bricktown, and it seems that no one uses that to their advantage... I rarely see it full. =/