NFL in OKC

[Laramie]

An abortive version of that stadium eventually received lukewarm support from then-governor Henry Bellmon such that it went on a statewide ballot, but by then had been dissected and chopped down to a "20,000-seat multipurpose arena" question that was quite thoroughly crushed.

As late as 1984 there was talk of a 55,000-seat dome stadium by the Fairgrounds Trust.

A previous feasibility study had been done in 1972 (State Fair Board Trust).

"I would love to see us have some kind of professional sports team come here," Coats added. "Every time a business talks about locating here they want to know about professional athletics."

Study Sought On City Dome | News OK


I would love to see them build something at Fair Park to replace many of the iconic structures which have been demolished or are currently non-functional.*

1. Grand Stands were demolished
2. *Arrow to Atoms Space Tower
3. Monorail torn down.

Oklahoma State Fair: Some State Fair highlights now just a memory | News OK

[MikeLucky]

About the time OKC was repeatedly NOT building a dome.... Indianapolis was busy building one... It seems to have worked out for them.

[Just the facts]

I know what you mean WichitaSooner...but...

Along came United Airlines - and picked Indy over OKC because of 'quality of life' (AKA - the NFL). Then United turned out to be bust leaving Indy with so much debt at their airport they will never be able to pay it off
Then the temporary $150 million RCA dome that lured the Colts was imploded and replaced with a temporary $750 million stadium.

Their 'success' has come at a high price ($1.9 billion in debt). Carmel (an Indy suburb) is $1 billion in debt (not sure how a suburb got $1 billion in debt though).

[Buffalo Bill]

Carmel (an Indy suburb) is $1 billion in debt (not sure how a suburb got $1 billion in debt though).

By building too many roundabouts?

[Laramie]

I know what you mean WichitaSooner...but...

Along came United Airlines - and picked Indy over OKC because of 'quality of life' (AKA - the NFL). Then United turned out to be bust leaving Indy with so much debt at their airport they will never be able to pay it off
Then the temporary $150 million RCA dome that lured the Colts was imploded and replaced with a temporary $750 million stadium.

Their 'success' has come at a high price ($1.9 billion in debt). Carmel (an Indy suburb) is $1 billion in debt (not sure how a suburb got $1 billion in debt though).

These are the risks you take when bidding for a manufacturer to bring thousands of jobs to your community of which a lot of satellite businesses follow. What's the trade off? How long was United Airlines Maintenance facility there in Indianapolis before closing their doors? What was the economic impact while that corporation was there?

We experienced the same when we built the GM plant in OKC? Now the old GM Plant facility continues to serve an alternate purpose. There are risks involved in these type of fishing expeditions. Monroe, LA beat us out for a maintenance facility some decades back; that facility is still in operation. Did quality of life make the difference in that decision? Who knows what goes on behind-the-scenes in these high stakes bidding battles.

You come away with the 'Grand Prize' and it turns sour before you can get it into the freezer. Do we stop attempting to lure these manufacturing giants? Or do we continue to bait that hook and try for the next big catch-of-the-day.

Business deals have always brought about an element of risk as well as an element of surprise...

[jedicurt]

Revival of the USFL may be an option to professional football outside the NFL.

the USFL has been trying to make a come back since 2008... and it hasn't happened since.

[OKCisOK4me]

I'm surprised that this thread has been resurrected. We should rename it 'Jesus'.

[bradh]

I'm glad OKC didn't build a dome, domes suck (and I'm from the home of THE Dome)

[adaniel]

About the time OKC was repeatedly NOT building a dome.... Indianapolis was busy building one... It seems to have worked out for them.

Actually I think this is more reason for people to drop this OKC NFL fantasy.

In addition to what JTF said, Pacers attendance has been dreadful in the past few years. As in 5th from last in 2013, despite having a pretty good team. Colts attendance has historically been much better but maintaining that is not guaranteed, especially with Peyton Manning gone. And outside of basketball, college sports is nowhere near as supported there then here.

So if a market quite a bit larger cannot support 2 teams, what does that say about OKC's chances?

[Laramie]

Actually I think this is more reason for people to drop this OKC NFL fantasy.

In addition to what JTF said, Pacers attendance has been dreadful in the past few years. As in 5th from last in 2013, despite having a pretty good team. Colts attendance has historically been much better but maintaining that is not guaranteed, especially with Peyton Manning gone. And outside of basketball, college sports is nowhere near as supported there then here.

So if a market quite a bit larger cannot support 2 teams, what does that say about OKC's chances?

One of the things you learn about a market is that some are unique. You can always lump them all into one catagory and say 'if it doesn't work in a larger city then it won't work in a smaller one.

Using the model of minor league sports as a gauge for major professional sports doesn't always fit the mold; this can sometimes be misleading. There are many variables to be considered. New Orleans for example based on its population and demographics is an overextended market to support both the NFL and NBA franchises. There are exceptions to the rules.

Sure in your opinion it's a fantasy or pipedream as most people like to put it. What harm is there in posters expressing their opinions? The year 2020 could bring about a complete demographic transformation for Oklahoma City.

I know the NFL is a different animal and on a mega level than the NBA.

How well in my recollection (late 80s) posters were saying that Oklahoma City would never get an NHL franchise. We finished high in the NHL expansion derby in 1997. That pipedream or fantasy didn't die. Nashville was one of those cities poised to get an NHL expansion fanchise in 97 along with Atlanta, Minneasota (St. Paul) and Columbus. Raleigh, N.C. was able to relocate the Hartford Whalers to their city during that same period. Houston and Oklahoma City were said to have been left out in the cold. We leap-frogged the NHL all the way to the NBA.

IMO: Nashville, Raleigh and Columbus would have preferred to NBA over the NHL.

In our brief experiment with the New Orleans Hornets we far exceeded the standard for housing a temporary NBA team. That opened the gates for the relocation of the Supersonic to our city. The new OKC Thunder was the result of that NBA transplant. We wil begin our eighth year hosting the NBA and our OKC NBAThuner resume looks impressive:

2008-09 Oklahoma City Thunder 97.7 (18,693)
2009-10 Oklahoma City Thunder 98.9 (18,003) arena reconfigured and downsized to 18,203
2010-11 Oklahoma City Thunder 99.7 (18,148)
2011-12 Oklahoma City Thunder 100.0 (18,203)
2012-13 Oklahoma City Thunder 100.0 (18,203)

Source: 2012-2013 NBA Attendance - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Mayor Mick Cornett summed it up by saying that smart cities plan ahead...

[Jesseda]

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

[Achilleslastand]

All jokes aside....
This is not going to happen.

[Dustin]

If only...

[Bunty]

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

So let the voters decide if they want a penny in city sales tax to go to a pro football stadium.

[Laramie]

Can't help but agree that Oklahoma City would be used as a pawn to up the ante on getting the stadium project completed in Oakland.

Has history taught us anything? Just how serious are the Raiders about building a stadium in Oklahoma City? Remember the Houston Oilers flirting with the City of Nashville. Nashville had the Oilers in bed quicker than two rabbits could mate. Nashville's mayor locked the Oilers into an 'exclusive agreement' while negotiating with the Oilers to relocate to the Music City. That meant 'there were no counter offers' from Houston during the process; this kept Nashville from being used as a pawn.

"Confronted by this unprecedented opposition, Adams once again drew the ultimate weapon: the threat of a move from the city. First, he pitted nearby county against county in a bid for a new stadium. Then, for good measure, the Oilers commissioned a study from a major accounting firm—the kind of study that ignores basic principles of economics, the failure of government industrial policy, and the efficiency of the private sector—which asserted that a new dome for the Oilers would be worth $20 million annually to Houston. Still, none of it turned the tide in Adams’s favor.

Nashville Woos the Oilers

So, in August 1995, he opened negotiations with the city of Nashville. Unlike Houston, Nashville and the state of Tennessee had wooed Adams. The city had long wanted to be “big league.” Mayor Phil Bredesen had already built a new hockey arena without a National Hockey League tenant; so he stood more than willing to build a football stadium for an actual NFL team. And Tennessee Governor Don Sundquist announced that state taxpayers also would be tapped to help bring the Oilers to Nashville.

Back in Houston, Lanier started to crack. He offered a deal to build an open-air stadium for Adams. But Adams decided it was too little too late, and besides, it supposedly was too hot to play outside in Houston."

The NFL Oilers: A Case Study in Corporate Welfare : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

Oklahoma's Gaylold Family Memorial Stadium (82,000-plus) would make a temporary home if the team had to exit the Bay early.
So, if the Raiders are serious, there is a sure way to find out.

This may be what the Raiders need to get that stadium built in Oakland; because with two NFL franchises in the area (49ers getting a new stadium), Oklahoma City would be just the 'can do city' to flirt with as a relocation destination if Oakland doesn't get the job done. Oakland only needs to ask Seattle about Oklahoma City's adulteress ways.

[venture]

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

I was expecting to see that this was on The Onion. Call me surprised.

[OKCisOK4me]

Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City

It did kinda feel like April today...

[dcsooner]

One of the things you learn about a market is that some are unique. You can always lump them all into one catagory and say 'if it doesn't work in a larger city then it won't work in a smaller one.

Using the model of minor league sports as a gauge for major professional sports doesn't always fit the mold; this can sometimes be misleading. There are many variables to be considered. New Orleans for example based on its population and demographics is an overextended market to support both the NFL and NBA franchises. There are exceptions to the rules.

Sure in your opinion it's a fantasy or pipedream as most people like to put it. What harm is there in posters expressing their opinions? The year 2020 could bring about a complete demographic transformation for Oklahoma City.

I know the NFL is a different animal and on a mega level than the NBA.

How well in my recollection (late 80s) posters were saying that Oklahoma City would never get an NHL franchise. We finished high in the NHL expansion derby in 1997. That pipedream or fantasy didn't die. Nashville was one of those cities poised to get an NHL expansion fanchise in 97 along with Atlanta, Minneasota (St. Paul) and Columbus. Raleigh, N.C. was able to relocate the Hartford Whalers to their city during that same period. Houston and Oklahoma City were said to have been left out in the cold. We leap-frogged the NHL all the way to the NBA.

IMO: Nashville, Raleigh and Columbus would have preferred to NBA over the NHL.
In our brief experiment with the New Orleans Hornets we far exceeded the standard for housing a temporary NBA team. That opened the gates for the relocation of the Supersonic to our city. The new OKC Thunder was the result of that NBA transplant. We wil begin our eighth year hosting the NBA and our OKC NBAThuner resume looks impressive:

2008-09 Oklahoma City Thunder 97.7 (18,693)
2009-10 Oklahoma City Thunder 98.9 (18,003) arena reconfigured and downsized to 18,203
2010-11 Oklahoma City Thunder 99.7 (18,148)
2011-12 Oklahoma City Thunder 100.0 (18,203)
2012-13 Oklahoma City Thunder 100.0 (18,203)

Source: 2012-2013 NBA Attendance - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Mayor Mick Cornett summed it up by saying that smart cities plan ahead...

Totally Agree! the NBA is much better than the NHL and those Cities you mentioned with NHL franchises would switch in a heartbeat!

[hoya]

What OKC really needs to do is spend the next 15 years improving on its transportation, its education, and its economy. The more improvements we make to our quality of life, the more people will move here. If we add another 10 buildings to our skyline of 500'+ (on the high end, but possible), that will mean we have a stronger corporate presence, a growing population, and more wealth.

At a certain point, we will become very attractive for an NFL team. In 2030, there will be some team that is in trouble. They will be wanting a new arena. Their ownership group will be losing money. They will have a bad relationship with their city. We will be voting on MAPS 6 or something. If we have a metro area population of 1.9 million and are voting to build a new 65,000 seat multi-purpose arena, I think we'll have a legit shot at a team.

[Laramie]

Interesting finding by Bleachler Report (2011) on NFL potential relocation or expansion cities:

"It's rumored that several teams, including the Jacksonville Jaguars, San Diego Chargers, Oakland Raiders, and (less frequently) the Buffalo Bills and Minnesota Vikings, could be seeking new homes. It's also occasionally rumored that the NFL might expand to as many as forty teams." Oakland, San Diego, Minnesota & Buffalo are aggressively seeking to replace their current facilities.

Excerpts on OKC:

5. Oklahoma City and Vegas seem to have been the hot expansion/relocation topics for the last few years. Oklahoma City now (unfortunately) has the Thunder, and isn't a big enough market to accommodate much more than that.
...They would need a new stadium, but they could use Gaylord/Oklahoma Memorial in the interim.


NFL: Potential Cities it Could Move or Expand To | Bleacher Report

If Oklahoma City and Tulsa could work together and build something in between both cities; an NFL franchise would be a lot more pliable. Really don't see one (OKC) of these cities being able to bring in an NFL franchise since much of the NBA and NFL seasons interlock. OKC has the NBA and our 2020 population numbers and 2020 potential corporate support will determine how far into the future we can increase our major professional sports menu.

[bradh]

Oklahoma City now (unfortunately) has the Thunder

Boy people are just never going to get over this are they?

[venture]

If Oklahoma City and Tulsa could work together and build something in between both cities; an NFL franchise would be a lot more pliable. Really don't see one (OKC) of these cities being able to bring in an NFL franchise since much of the NBA and NFL seasons interlock. OKC has the NBA and our 2020 population numbers and 2020 potential corporate support will determine how far into the future we can increase our major professional sports menu.

Who in the world is going to go to a stadium in Stroud to watch football? Those will be some amazing shots from the blimps...big stadium and then nothing but empty fields. You also lose every single benefit of having the stadium in a city (restaurants, shops, hotels, etc).

[catch22]

Who in the world is going to go to a stadium in Stroud to watch football? Those will be some amazing shots from the blimps...big stadium and then nothing but empty fields. You also lose every single benefit of having the stadium in a city (restaurants, shops, hotels, etc).

Locate it in Oklahoma City (preferably downtown), have OKC and Tulsa split the cost to get that dang rail line up and running between the two cities. Have someone sponser a few pre-game party trains before the games.

Game at noon on Sunday:
TUL-OKC
0800-0915
0900-1015
1000-1115

OKC-TUL
1700-1815
2030-2145
2300-1215

If I lived in Tulsa, it would be so fun to spend Sunday getting pregamed in the morning on the train to OKC. Watching an NFL game. Going to some afterparties in Bricktown (or anywhere downtown because of the streetcar). Then taking the train back to Tulsa. Talk about a fun day. Not have to worry about traffic, parking, driving drunk, etc.

[venture]

That is a cool idea. Of course I doubt Tulsa would go for it since they would probably argue you could just as easily "train" people up from OKC. It'll probably have to be an OKC centered project and throw a bone to Tulsa once it is settled.

[catch22]

You're probably right. But, OKC is the larger city and the fastest growing. Someday the neighbors up the turnpike will need to accept reality, because when the opportunity comes around to snag an NFL team. It will most likely be a statewide effort.