Access Oklahoma Turnpike Projects

[mugofbeer]

OTA's long range plan and the Oklahoma legislators drafting a bill to create a corridor the OTA can build on in the future.

Can this be found anywhere? I have my reasons for asking.

[Plutonic Panda]

Can this be found anywhere? I have my reasons for asking.

Yes

HB 4088 allows the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority to construct and operate a toll turnpike at the
Oklahoma City Outer Loop expressway system north and west to I-35.
Prepared By: Keana Swadley

From HB4088 in 2022.

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf...%20BILLSUM.PDF

https://legiscan.com/OK/bill/HB4088/2022

This comes after Pike Off tried claiming that the OTA was never authorized by the state to construct a route through Norman but that claim was ultimately rejected by a judge.

As far as the long range plan from the OTA I will have to dig through their website and see if I can find it because I know I've seen it mentioned before along with some other routes that they have already been approved on and have yet to construct anything. It also mentioned how they would like to attempt to compress the plan from 15 years to 10 given the setbacks so if they could have most of these projects finished or completed by 2030-2033 they could start working on another bond measure by the late 2020s. Of course it wouldn't be mentioned for some time however I believe they announced Access Oklahoma right as the final projects of Driving Forward were wrapping up. I believe there still is a remanent of one of those projects U/C on I-44 in Tulsa but otherwise its mainly complete.

It would be nice to see it added to the Access Oklahoma plan but I am not sure how the OTA works exactly and if that is even possible.

Edit: I should mention this bill did not make it to a vote on the house floor. So it never happened. But I don't see why it wouldn't be pushed forward again in the future.

[The]

@PluPan - any update on that plan to move Flood to the right?

[Plutonic Panda]

@PluPan - any update on that plan to move Flood to the right?

Well I’m not sure that ODOT has any official plan to do that. It was just that ODOT specifically noted that that was something a lot of people mentioned during the comment period they held for I-35 and frontage road improvements in the south OKC metro I believe specifically from Moore to Norman. I wouldn’t hold your breath on it happening anytime soon. I might be wrong but I think we’ll hear more within the next year or so. I think the main focus from ODOT will be frontage road improvements(converting them to one way from Moore to Norman) and coming up with longer term plans for I-35(added lanes, new interchange access at local roads, HOV lanes, moving Flood Ave. access to the right etc.).

And I tried to find the meeting on my phone but again the new ODOT Website is just horrible. I have to Get on my computer And see if I can find it easier on the website.

[jn1780]

I guess Norman city council doesn't want to have an input on the turnpike design. Funny how they tabled the second resolution for 'further study'. Probably because they know they can't legally issue a moratorium?

https://kfor.com/news/local/norman-c...ike-authority/

[BoulderSooner]

I guess Norman city council doesn't want to have an input on the turnpike design. Funny how they tabled the second resolution for 'further study'. Probably because they know they can't legally issue a moratorium?

https://kfor.com/news/local/norman-c...ike-authority/

this is a classic cut off our nose to spite our face situation

[cinnamonjock]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. A ton of anti-turnpike people went to and spoke at that meeting and I don't think there was anyone "pro-turnpike" there. An email from the mayor leaked with him saying the turnpike is inevitable so the norman city government should work with OTA on compromises and concessions. That made the ant-turnpike people really mad.

I'd hate to be on city council during all this. I suspect most of Norman is neutral to somewhat in favor of the new roads, but the people losing their homes are understandably upset and very vocal. There are also quite a few people who live nowhere near the turnpike that I think are basically the old-school, anti-development type of environmentalist.

The only compelling argument I've heard is that the money being used to fund the construction could better be spent on establishing the norman-edmond commuter rail line--especially if the primary goal is to reduce traffic on I-35.

[Jeepnokc]

this is a classic cut off our nose to spite our face situation

Looks that way. OTA trims back the amenities that were added for Norman. Says it will cut the access roads and trails.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...s/74985749007/

[BoulderSooner]

Looks that way. OTA trims back the amenities that were added for Norman. Says it will cut the access roads and trails.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...s/74985749007/

these once again are not serious people

Other residents argued against the resolution saying the city can still fight the toll road in court and be the first community to successfully stop the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority.

[BoulderSooner]

The only compelling argument I've heard is that the money being used to fund the construction could better be spent on establishing the norman-edmond commuter rail line--especially if the primary goal is to reduce traffic on I-35.

except this money couldn't be used for that this it Turnpike authority money not dept of transpiration money ...

[cinnamonjock]

except this money couldn't be used for that this it Turnpike authority money not dept of transpiration money ...

Which is silly that these are two separate departments at all.

[jn1780]

Which is silly that these are two separate departments at all.

There would just be no turnpike or commuter rail.

[TheTravellers]

Which is silly that these are two separate departments at all.

No, it's not silly - the OTA takes care of the turnpikes, ODOT takes care of not-turnpikes. Pretty sure that's the way every state that has toll roads operates.

[cinnamonjock]

No, it's not silly - the OTA takes care of the turnpikes, ODOT takes care of not-turnpikes. Pretty sure that's the way every state that has toll roads operates.

Agree to disagree, respectfully. I think there would be an efficiency with OTA falling under the ODOT umbrella and being able to create state-wide transportation planning within the same department.

[Chris Gordon]

Agree to disagree, respectfully. I think there would be an efficiency with OTA falling under the ODOT umbrella and being able to create state-wide transportation planning within the same department.

Yeah sure... but that notion is completely predicated on ODOT actually being efficient... at all. More likely the ineffectiveness of ODOT would spread throughout the OTA leaving all the state roads and projects in disrepair. Shared services models are great until the sharing gets too large and bureaucratic. If you were going to have one of these departments be in charge of a road project in your neighborhood, which one would you pick? or If you needed to drive in the snow/ ice, which agency's road would you prefer to drive on?

I know one can make the argument that funding is the reason why...I wouldn't disagree, but OTA is somewhat insulated from the ignorance of the elected leaders and their personal agendas in ways that ODOT isn't.

[TheTravellers]

Agree to disagree, respectfully. I think there would be an efficiency with OTA falling under the ODOT umbrella and being able to create state-wide transportation planning within the same department.

Pretty sure OTA and ODOT coordinate (sometimes badly, yes) between them for projects. As I said, pretty sure every other state does it this way.

It probably would be more efficient if done the way you suggest, but that most likely doesn't happen anywhere and won't happen anywhere. Neither dept will give up their autonomy.

[VeggieMeat]

Which is silly that these are two separate departments at all.

OTA is a non-appropriated agency with a bonding authority that doesn't encumber ODOT or other state agencies.

[onthestrip]

Wow, keep fighting a winless fight and losing access roads as a result?! These citizens arent thinking very rationally. Not only do they lose nice new free access roads, they are also killing economic development opportunities that those access roads provide.

[josefromtulsa]

Wow, keep fighting a winless fight and losing access roads as a result?! These citizens arent thinking very rationally. Not only do they lose nice new free access roads, they are also killing economic development opportunities that those access roads provide.

Its a bluff I'm pretty sure. No access roads means smaller contracts for their friends in the Oklahoma Asphalt Pavement Association.

Not to mention the number of access points (homes, businesses, undeveloped land without other road access, dead end roads) that would need to be maintained would require them to build access roads anyways.

[cinnamonjock]

I've done a little reading on it and it appears the reason they are separate is due to how they are funded, which I suppose makes sense.

I think the east-west connector, at least form I-44 to I-35, is obvious. That area is going to fill in eventually anyway, and having those access roads built for free would be extremely valuable. I believe most of that area on the east side of the river is Norman city limits anyway.

Norman City Council could have made the best out of a situation they didn't want to be in, but instead they're refusing to play ball. Once it is all built, people will regret not coming to the table in good faith and getting the access roads, on and off ramps, and rec trails that would make these new turnpikes more tolerable.

[BoulderSooner]

Its a bluff I'm pretty sure. No access roads means smaller contracts for their friends in the Oklahoma Asphalt Pavement Association.

Not to mention the number of access points (homes, businesses, undeveloped land without other road access, dead end roads) that would need to be maintained would require them to build access roads anyways.

not really ... it would be like if OKC didn't want to play ball when the north okc turnpike was built ... memorial would have just stayed on one side of the new turnpike ..


i don't think this is a bluff in any way .. and this does NOTHING in stopping the turnpike from being built .

[Plutonic Panda]

not really ... it would be like if OKC didn't want to play ball when the north okc turnpike was built ... memorial would have just stayed on one side of the new turnpike ..


i don't think this is a bluff in any way .. and this does NOTHING in stopping the turnpike from being built .

That's so dumb. They just cost themselves economic benefits and activity. This seems more like the OTA giving them the middle finger. It'll be funny to see all the new development pop up around Moore on the new service roads and these people figure out how to get there *gasp* they end up using the tollway.

[Plutonic Panda]

Someone on another forum made a good point. This could potentially impact the proposed five stack at I-35. I will be very angry if that isn't built.

[jn1780]

Pretty sure OTA and ODOT coordinate (sometimes badly, yes) between them for projects. As I said, pretty sure every other state does it this way.

It probably would be more efficient if done the way you suggest, but that most likely doesn't happen anywhere and won't happen anywhere. Neither dept will give up their autonomy.

People seem to have already forgotten that Tim Gatz ran both agencies a few months ago. There was a high level of coordination between the two agencies. OTA doesn't just go around looking for random turnpikes to build. The governors office/transportation secretary gives them direction.

[Jeremy Martin]

The OTA and ODOT have been ran by the same person for many years. It's only been in the last year that it has been two people because the AG ruled it was not appropriate.
ODOT has even donated land to the OTA numerous times.
To say that the OTA is efficient however is a joke. The OTA is a ponzi scheme that only exists to issue new bonds to pay for it's old bonds. The OTA is shooting itself in the foot by not building access roads in Norman because those roads would drive more traffic to the turnpike and more tolls. The OTA doesn't care about that because they never want these roads to be actually paid for.