Streetcar

[CaptDave]

One of the things this discussion has done for me: I never noticed the people waiting in the elements for the bus, they were invisible to me, now I see them every day. Think - if you were them what would you want?

We are in complete agreement on this Dave. This is due to a profit driven entity exercising control over randomly placed billboards - I mean bus stops - rather than COTPA controlling location and leasing ad space as nearly every other transit system in the country does. The MAPS Streetcar is not the reason for the grossly substandard excuses COTPA permits to pass for bus stops in OKC.

This is one of those issues we can correct without resorting to reducing or eliminating funding for a complimentary mode of transit. COTPA needs to end the ridiculous arrangement with Taylor Outdoor Advertising (or whatever they call themselves) and place bus stops in logical locations. Then work with city staff and COTPA to identify a funding source for immediately starting to improve bus stops in the locations most needed.

Why not focus our energy on this method of providing better service to the people you mention? I think you would have more allies than you know what to do with.

[RadicalModerate]

That's why I'm not a bus rider. To be at my desk at 8, I would have to get on a bus at 7:05. If I drive, I leave at 7:40. If I had a more frequent option, I would be a convert. I've said this on here before, but I don't need the commute times to be equal, but when riding a bus costs me an extra 5 hours a week - and doesn't save me any money (I have a paid off, fuel efficient car and employer paid parker) - I'll keep driving.

Has your workplace banned telecommuting like Yahoo? =) (just kiddng)

[RadicalModerate]

From Facebook-
While passage of any legislation is never certain until it is signed, we have been told that the Oklahoma Railways Commission (HB2180) and Right of First Refusal (HB2187) bills are in good shape. We still need to call our state senators in order to ensure passage of this legislation.

Less certain is HB1657 - Public-Private Partnership (P3) Design Build bill. We need to make certain House members know the importance of ‘cleaning up state statute’ to include railroad, airports, sewers, highways, etc… Presently design-build is not authorized. Such would be needed for example if a passenger rail carrier/ corporation were to come into the state to upgrade and operate the Oklahoma City – Sapulpa rail line.

"Facebook": there you have it. =)

Please be advised not to feel enough empathy for a fellow human being to offer a ride if you see them sitting or standing at a bus stop. They may feel patronized and/or may be a criminal fugitive. The same rule applies to unauthorized carpooling a.k.a. hitchhiking.

[Urban Pioneer]

I should clarify. Easter Flyer Alliance posted that to the Friends for a Better Boulevard Page which subsequently got posted to the OKC Streetcar page which subsequently I have now posted here. LOL

And if you want to "Like" the OKC Streetcar Page, you can do it here-

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Oklaho...03749819767937

[betts]

My mother rides her bike to the grocery store at home, but when we lived in NH, she used to walk to the store when she visited. She usually got stopped two or three times every time she went shopping to see if she wanted a ride. She told me she was only tempted to accept once - when she got the offer of a ride from a handsome young man in a red Mercedes. Haha!

[Larry OKC]

Read Exhibit A of the MAPS 3 City Council resolution approved on September 29, 2009:

MAPS 3 Resolution

"The intended MAPS 3 projects include the following:

2. A new rail-based streetcar system..."

Obviously, buses are not rail-based. No room for misinterpretation on that one.

True, BUT the Intent Resolution has NO legal bearing on the Ballot or the Ordinance. The Ordinance is what the City is bound by. The Courts ruled that the City can change their intent at will (as they did with the MAPS for Kids Use Tax money that went to fund the Bass Pro deal. Council Members and Mayors come and go.

[betts]

True, BUT the Intent Resolution has NO legal bearing on the Ballot or the Ordinance. The Ordinance is what the City is bound by. The Courts ruled that the City can change their intent at will.

Everyone knows that Larry. Rather, city council members also know that, if they veer too far away from what was promised, they risk never passing another MAPS resolution. I know that would make you happy, but I'm not sure the majority of people on the City Council would agree with you. It's smart politics, for those who think MAPS' projects have done great things for Oklahoma City.

[Spartan]

So has the streetcar been nixed yet?

[Popsy]

Everyone knows that Larry. Rather, city council members also know that, if they veer too far away from what was promised, they risk never passing another MAPS resolution. I know that would make you happy, but I'm not sure the majority of people on the City Council would agree with you. It's smart politics, for those who think MAPS' projects have done great things for Oklahoma City.

Seems to me that if the Council wanted to go a different direction this project would be ideal for doing so. I say ideal because they could claim they were sold a bill of B.S. information such as all the money that would flow in from the feds to help build and expand the streetcar system; the manipulation of the survey that was conducted online prior to the selection of the maps projects (Urban admitted to the manipulation by his group in this forum); having to tear up downtown streets again after going through project 180 for so long; the length of time it would take to build out a streetcar system that would still not service the majority of the populace ($130 million MAPS dollars every seven years at six miles per maps election starting April 1, 2017 would give OKC 42 more miles of track in 2066 for a total of 48 miles and that is only if there was absolutely ZERO INFLATION in the next 53 years. Of course the railies will continue to tell us that the feds will come through and bestow millions and millions of dollars on OKC for rail development if we just vote for streetcars in the next MAPS election and there is definately a chance for that because Oklahoma holds favor with the democratic party because we are the top red state in the Union.

I realize, having written the above, that most will think I am a streetcar hater, but that is not the case. I thought the idea of having a core circulator would be a good idea because the city could build two multi-story parking garages on the U-haul parking lot and have the streetcar tracks run between them for easy distribution plus the added benefit of having parking for both bricktown, the peake and cox center after 6 p.m., a win-win situation. I am now thinking improving the bus system would be of more benefit. My apologies to any railies I have offended. As a side note I would like to ask how a committee can make a site selection for transit or a convention center with out knowing what that site would cost. Seems to me that the smart thing to do would be to get a commitment from the owners of possible sites as to what they would legally commit to what they would sell it for. Makes more sense to me that this would be done rather than the process that was used.

[Hutch]

So has the streetcar been nixed yet?

Yep...rumor has it that the streetcar is being replaced with a fleet of modern hybrid minivans.

[Hutch]

...and with the money left over, we'll get a 600-foot high flying Jesus statue in Core to Shore.

[Hutch]

...or was that a 100-foot high flying Elvis ride in Core to Shore...I can't remember which.




Just trying to lighten things up a little...no offense intended at anyone.

[adaniel]

I'm just a casual follower of this, so I have to ask. How much of this proposed "tinkering" of the streetcar funds for more buses is just Ed Shadid mumbling in the background with everything else proceeding as planned, or is there serious momentum to do this?

I ask because in reviewing the city council video from last week, it seemed the other councilors just kind of blew him off when he went off on yet another tangent. Yet on here it sounds like several posters are genuinely concerned that the streetcar proposal will not be followed through. I would really hate it if this were the case and I would have to reconsider any further support of future MAP's programs, let alone any sort of tax initiative.

[OKCRT]

I'm just a casual follower of this, so I have to ask. How much of this proposed "tinkering" of the streetcar funds for more buses is just Ed Shadid mumbling in the background with everything else proceeding as planned, or is there serious momentum to do this?

I ask because in reviewing the city council video from last week, it seemed the other councilors just kind of blew him off when he went off on yet another tangent. Yet on here it sounds like several posters are genuinely concerned that the streetcar proposal will not be followed through. I would really hate it if this were the case and I would have to reconsider any further support of future MAP's programs, let alone any sort of tax initiative.

Yes there are rumors going around that they want to do away with the streetcar and add some trolley buses and routes that will service the core every 15 minutes.

[Frustratedoptimist]

Love the rumor jokes ^^^^!

Adaniel - IMO the streetcar funds will stay put, but Shadid is bringing up several technical, operational and financial questions and issues that deserve answers and resolution. Does he go too far sometimes? Maybe, but its a worthwhile dialogue and I appreciate that over the alternative.

I think the results of the bus transit service study and how the city council reacts, with dollars, will be very telling as to how deep thier committment is to mass transit in OKC. We simply will not have a good or great streetcar system without more buses, higher frequency, hundreds more shelters, a regional focus and a new service provider with experience in cities with mass transit.
It takes money to make money, right?

[Rover]

Everybody loves the guard dog until it turns on them and bites them. Shadid could seriously obstruct the streetcar project and that would be too bad.

[Just the facts]

Well, the City Council already approved the timeline and the streetcar is on it so I'm not too worried about it.

[Urban Pioneer]

Everybody loves the guard dog until it turns on them and bites them. Shadid could seriously obstruct the streetcar project and that would be too bad.

1st- Comparing Shadid to a "guard dog" would be too noble a compliment.

2nd- Obstructionism requires a few more friends and some political give and take. We'll see.

[Urban Pioneer]

the manipulation of the survey that was conducted online prior to the selection of the maps projects (Urban admitted to the manipulation by his group in this forum)

I did? How noble of me me to admit to such a manipulation! Did you go to Shadid's forum? He went on and on about that meaningless online survey and how it "could have been" manipulated and that it probably had been.

I'm pretty sure that approaching council directly about doing a substantive and integral part of the 2005 transit System Plan had more effect than a unscientific online poll. A System Plan developed out of an authoritative regional transit study.

I would be more facetious but undoubtedly the comments would be taken out of context and read before council or something. Lol

[Hutch]

I did? How noble of me me to admit to such a manipulation! Did you go to Shadid's forum? He went on and on about that meaningless online survey and how it "could have been" manipulated and that it probably had been.

I'm pretty sure that approaching council directly about doing a substantive and integral part of the 2005 transit System Plan had more effect than a unscientific online poll. A System Plan developed out of an authoritative regional transit study.

I would be more facetious but undoubtedly the comments would be taken out of context and read before council or something. Lol

Hey UP...did you also manipulate the ACOG Encompass 2035 Survey...LOL!


ACOG 2009 Encompass 2035 Transportation Survey


Question 10: In the future, which of the following ways would you prefer to travel in Central Oklahoma? (choose three*)

Response Total Response Percent
Rail 1146 63 %
Car 1074 59 %
Bus 619 34 %
Bike 512 28 %
Walk 277 15 %
Carpool 199 11 %
Other 67 4 %

Question 11: What are your top three priorities for the transportation system within Central Oklahoma? (choose three*)

Response Total Response Percent
Develop passenger rail 1003 56 %
Maintain roads and bridges 891 50 %
Improve public bus system 619 35 %
Add more bicycle paths/bike lanes 582 33 %
Add more sidewalks/walking paths 469 26 %
Expand interstate rail (Amtrak) 451 25 %
Improve interchanges on interstates 241 14 %
Add lanes to interstates 233 13 %
Improve traffic signals/intersections 227 13 %
Increase transportation services
for elderly and disabled 226 13 %
Add lanes to roads 206 12 %

[Bellaboo]

Seems to me that if the Council wanted to go a different direction this project would be ideal for doing so. I say ideal because they could claim they were sold a bill of B.S. information such as all the money that would flow in from the feds to help build and expand the streetcar system; the manipulation of the survey that was conducted online prior to the selection of the maps projects (Urban admitted to the manipulation by his group in this forum); having to tear up downtown streets again after going through project 180 for so long; the length of time it would take to build out a streetcar system that would still not service the majority of the populace ($130 million MAPS dollars every seven years at six miles per maps election starting April 1, 2017 would give OKC 42 more miles of track in 2066 for a total of 48 miles and that is only if there was absolutely ZERO INFLATION in the next 53 years. Of course the railies will continue to tell us that the feds will come through and bestow millions and millions of dollars on OKC for rail development if we just vote for streetcars in the next MAPS election and there is definately a chance for that because Oklahoma holds favor with the democratic party because we are the top red state in the Union.

I realize, having written the above, that most will think I am a streetcar hater, but that is not the case. I thought the idea of having a core circulator would be a good idea because the city could build two multi-story parking garages on the U-haul parking lot and have the streetcar tracks run between them for easy distribution plus the added benefit of having parking for both bricktown, the peake and cox center after 6 p.m., a win-win situation. I am now thinking improving the bus system would be of more benefit. My apologies to any railies I have offended. As a side note I would like to ask how a committee can make a site selection for transit or a convention center with out knowing what that site would cost. Seems to me that the smart thing to do would be to get a commitment from the owners of possible sites as to what they would legally commit to what they would sell it for. Makes more sense to me that this would be done rather than the process that was used.

This makes more sense than ever - we could have had a few landowners bidding against each other to sell their site, rather than the chosen site owners holding their property hostage.

[Bellaboo]

1st- Comparing Shadid to a "guard dog" would be too noble a compliment.

2nd- Obstructionism requires a few more friends and some political give and take. We'll see.

Six months ago, 90% of the folks on this board thought the sun rose and set in Shadid's behiney.....I've been pessimistic about him from the begining, thinking he had an alterior plan.

Now if someone turns up with concrete shoes at the bottom of Hefner.......it's probably me.

[OkieDave]

wrong forum for post

[Just the facts]

Six months ago, 90% of the folks on this board thought the sun rose and set in Shadid's behiney.....I've been pessimistic about him from the begining, thinking he had an alterior plan.

Captains floating with the tide sometimes think they are steering the ship. I think it fair to say that a lot of Shadid's support (at least on this site) is not because he was leading, but because he was walking in front and going the same way we were going. Then he strayed from the path and found out he wasn't being followed.

[Bellaboo]

Captains floating with the tide sometimes think they are steering the ship. I think it fair to say that a lot of Shadid's support (at least on this site) is not because he was leading, but because he was walking in front and going the same way we were going. Then he strayed from the path and found out he wasn't being followed.

Him questioning the dedicated zoo tax set me off against him..... totally going against what the people had voted for.