Century Center

[Pete]

I believe that Journal Record article is inaccurate on several fronts.

Much of the assistance mentioned is for improving and expanding the garage, which is being done in association with COPTA -- that was going to happen anyway.

I believe the only real assistance being sought by OPUBCO is the $1.5 million from the Devon TIF. And even though the primary aspect of that TIF was the Project 180 stuff, there was another chunk of money set aside specifically to move corporate HQ's downtown. OPUBCO and the massive investment needed to turn the CC into a modern newsroom seem to fit those parameters and I bet this will easily win approval.


Back to the parking garage, OPUBCO won't be the only tenant in the remodeled Center Center. I'm hearing a branch of the YMCA may be included, probably some additional smaller office tenants and the Mahogany rumor for the SW corner is starting to firm up.

So, this isn't just about OPUBCO.


The more I find out about this, the more I think it's going to be great for OKC. OPUBCO can bring life to that space in a way no other office tenant could as they employ hundreds who are very tuned in and interested in the community. They also work long, unusual hours including weekends... Imagine what that will mean for downtown restaurants and street activity in general.

[Praedura]

... OPUBCO can bring life to that space in a way no other office tenant could as they employ hundreds who are very tuned in and interested in the community. They also work long, unusual hours including weekends... Imagine what that will mean for downtown restaurants and street activity in general.

Roving gangs of OPUBCO employees terrorizing the neighborhood?

[kevinpate]

wearing matching ties instead of doo rags and flashing digi recorders instead of hand signs

[Just the facts]

You just have know the secret sign and the OPUBCO Boys will leave you alone.

[Bellaboo]

When does "corporate welfare" actually become "welfare"? I know that term is used as a parallel to the entitlement program "welfare", but if the result is that supporting OPUBCOs move downtown results in a net gain to the city it isn't welfare, it is a money making move for the City.

If I give $5 to some person, and they give me nothing back except a request next week for $5 more - that is welfare.
But if I give $5 to a company and next week they give me back $6 - that ISN'T welfare. That is smart money management and for the residents, that is $1 less in taxes that will need to be paid.

This...

[BoulderSooner]

I believe that Journal Record article is inaccurate on several fronts.

Much of the assistance mentioned is for improving and expanding the garage, which is being done in association with COPTA -- that was going to happen anyway.

I believe the only real assistance being sought by OPUBCO is the $1.5 million from the Devon TIF. And even though the primary aspect of that TIF was the Project 180 stuff, there was another chunk of money set aside specifically to move corporate HQ's downtown. OPUBCO and the massive investment needed to turn the CC into a modern newsroom seem to fit those parameters and I bet this will easily win approval.


Back to the parking garage, OPUBCO won't be the only tenant in the remodeled Center Center. I'm hearing a branch of the YMCA may be included, probably some additional smaller office tenants and the Mahogany rumor for the SW corner is starting to firm up.

So, this isn't just about OPUBCO.


The more I find out about this, the more I think it's going to be great for OKC. OPUBCO can bring life to that space in a way no other office tenant could as they employ hundreds who are very tuned in and interested in the community. They also work long, unusual hours including weekends... Imagine what that will mean for downtown restaurants and street activity in general.

very good recap ... i agree

[metro]

Roving gangs of OPUBCO employees terrorizing the neighborhood?

Or roving gangs of OPUBCO employees eating $100+ steak dinners at Mahogany every day? That seems unlikely as well. I'd much rather see a La Madelines or Panera fit that space that will be used more than a premium Steakhouse only a few nights a week.

[Jack D.]

I believe that Journal Record article is inaccurate on several fronts.

Much of the assistance mentioned is for improving and expanding the garage, which is being done in association with COPTA -- that was going to happen anyway.

I believe the only real assistance being sought by OPUBCO is the $1.5 million from the Devon TIF. And even though the primary aspect of that TIF was the Project 180 stuff, there was another chunk of money set aside specifically to move corporate HQ's downtown. OPUBCO and the massive investment needed to turn the CC into a modern newsroom seem to fit those parameters and I bet this will easily win approval.


Back to the parking garage, OPUBCO won't be the only tenant in the remodeled Center Center. I'm hearing a branch of the YMCA may be included, probably some additional smaller office tenants and the Mahogany rumor for the SW corner is starting to firm up.

So, this isn't just about OPUBCO.


The more I find out about this, the more I think it's going to be great for OKC. OPUBCO can bring life to that space in a way no other office tenant could as they employ hundreds who are very tuned in and interested in the community. They also work long, unusual hours including weekends... Imagine what that will mean for downtown restaurants and street activity in general.

As was pointed out in the article, the COTPA money only came about because of the OPUBCO development. Would it have happened anyway? Possibly. Was it happening now? No.

Other than the Hurst/H3-Advisors identification failure, I'm not seeing anything "inaccurate" in this article, Pete, and your notes above don't clarify anything contradictory. It's pretty clearly laid out what OPUBCO wanted versus what the *developers* were asking for versus why COTPA is stepping in. OPUBCO is, however, the common catalyst here, as I'm reading it.

[BoulderSooner]

As was pointed out in the article, the COTPA money only came about because of the OPUBCO development. Would it have happened anyway? Possibly. Was it happening now? No.

Other than the Hurst/H3-Advisors identification failure, I'm not seeing anything "inaccurate" in this article, Pete, and your notes above don't clarify anything contradictory. It's pretty clearly laid out what OPUBCO wanted versus what the *developers* were asking for versus why COTPA is stepping in. OPUBCO is, however, the common catalyst here, as I'm reading it.

the copta money was coming either way .. this building was going to be redeveloped with or without OPUBCO OPUBCO is asking for the 1.5 mil not the developer per devon IC and TIF 2 documentation ...

also misidentifying Hurst is a huge deal .. SVN is a national real estate advisors company .. the local SVN Tim strange and assoc .. work for and with local developers and building owners .. H3 is an asset mgmt company that invest their clients money into all types of things including buildings

SVN didn't become "interested" in the property .. H3 bought it and hired SVN Tim strange to market the property ..and advise them H3 bought this building a while ago and they would have developed it with or with out OPUBCO like they have with other buildings in their portfolio

[mcca7596]

I am surprised that there is enough demand downtown that 3 YMCAs could be supported within a mile radius.

[Pete]

The CC facility would just be a satellite.

But think about how many new employees have come to downtown in the years since the main YMCA was built.

[Jack D.]

the copta money was coming either way .. this building was going to be redeveloped with or without OPUBCO OPUBCO is asking for the 1.5 mil not the developer per devon IC and TIF 2 documentation ...

also misidentifying Hurst is a huge deal .. SVN is a national real estate advisors company .. the local SVN Tim strange and assoc .. work for and with local developers and building owners .. H3 is an asset mgmt company that invest their clients money into all types of things including buildings

SVN didn't become "interested" in the property .. H3 bought it and hired SVN Tim strange to market the property ..and advise them H3 bought this building a while ago and they would have developed it with or with out OPUBCO like they have with other buildings in their portfolio

I'm sorry, but WHEN exactly was COTPA going to work on that garage?
And as for developing that property with or without OPUBCO: Did you fail to notice that the property was purchased at the same time the newspaper sold the tower? Or is your world ruled by coincidental timing?

I get the feeling that you guys drank the boosterism-flavored Kool-Aid purchased with Oklahoman newspaper coupons.

[catch22]

The CC facility would just be a satellite.

But think about how many new employees have come to downtown in the years since the main YMCA was built.

Which is packed all the time, from what I hear.

[onthestrip]

When does "corporate welfare" actually become "welfare"? I know that term is used as a parallel to the entitlement program "welfare", but if the result is that supporting OPUBCOs move downtown results in a net gain to the city it isn't welfare, it is a money making move for the City.

If I give $5 to some person, and they give me nothing back except a request next week for $5 more - that is welfare.
But if I give $5 to a company and next week they give me back $6 - that ISN'T welfare. That is smart money management and for the residents, that is $1 less in taxes that will need to be paid.

How is it a net gain for the city? They are just moving from on area of OKC to another. Should OKC be giving money to companies already here just to make a flashy move downtown?

[BoulderSooner]

I'm sorry, but WHEN exactly was COTPA going to work on that garage?
And as for developing that property with or without OPUBCO: Did you fail to notice that the property was purchased at the same time the newspaper sold the tower? Or is your world ruled by coincidental timing?

I get the feeling that you guys drank the boosterism-flavored Kool-Aid purchased with Oklahoman newspaper coupons.

actually the purchases were 2 1/2 months apart ..

[Jack D.]

actually the purchases were 2 1/2 months apart ..

[Pete]

I get the feeling that you guys drank the boosterism-flavored Kool-Aid purchased with Oklahoman newspaper coupons.

You need to read more of the site.

Your perspective is appreciated and there is always plenty of disagreement here, so please try not to take anything too personally.


Regarding the parking, there was a study done over a year ago that demonstrated the huge need in the central business district. I believe the discussions about adding onto the Century Center garage started well before it was sold to the new owners. It also contributed to the decision to not try and renovate the Cox Center for a new and expanded convention center.

[Praedura]

Should OKC be giving money to companies already here just to make a flashy move downtown?

I think that's pretty much the point of MAPS. To revitalize the downtown area by luring new and existing businesses into the downtown core.

[Just the facts]

How is it a net gain for the city? They are just moving from on area of OKC to another. Should OKC be giving money to companies already here just to make a flashy move downtown?

Because it is cheaper for the city to provide services in higher densities. Now granted, the benefit of OPUBCO moving downtown is off-set by AF moving out to back fill the space but what can you do - make a law against companies moving into low density areas? From a resource utilization point of view it isn't even close. Look how many acres of land OPUBCO needed to generate taxable revenue vs how many acres it takes downtown. There are huge economies of scale in density.

[Pete]

I think it's a valid point to question whether tax dollars should go towards relocating an existing OKC business to downtown. Especially one like OPUBCO who just made a ton of money selling their properties and is absolutely zero threat to move elsewhere.

Of course on the plus side, they bring something unique and energetic to downtown and seem to be a great fit for the high-visibility of this property. What they propose will really appeal to those who are casual downtown visitors; there for Thunder games or to see the adjacent Myriad Gardens. The CC is also a gateway between these areas and the core of the CBD, which is one of the reasons that ugly, empty hole has been eating away at our downtown vibe.


But remember, TIF dollars are just taxes diverted from things like education and police protection. So, the use of those funds should fall under heavy scrutiny.

[Just the facts]

Funny how spending $1.5 million to increase density raises flags but spending millions more to fund sprawl doesn't bat an eyelash. Maintaining Britton Road also diverts tax dollars from things like education and police protection while at the same time making things like education and police protection cost more.

[onthestrip]

I think that's pretty much the point of MAPS. To revitalize the downtown area by luring new and existing businesses into the downtown core.

We voted on MAPS, so i cant complain. But let MAPS money and improvements be the motivator for company relocations, not other monies.

Because it is cheaper for the city to provide services in higher densities. Now granted, the benefit of OPUBCO moving downtown is off-set by AF moving out to back fill the space but what can you do - make a law against companies moving into low density areas? From a resource utilization point of view it isn't even close. Look how many acres of land OPUBCO needed to generate taxable revenue vs how many acres it takes downtown. There are huge economies of scale in density.

OPBUCO moving from 235 to downtown does nothing to make city services cheaper. There would be a much better argument if this was an out of state company but this is just one moving 7 miles down the road. Im not going to be too upset about it but I think the extra funding is unnecessary.

Maybe it irks me because of this:
“It is wrong for public funds to be used to support corporate welfare, especially for a newspaper whose editorial policies seem to constantly object to the level of taxation in Oklahoma?" K.C. Moon

[PhiAlpha]

Whatever the case with the tif money, this is great for downtown. The century center has been an eyesore and a hole in downtown for 20 years. I think anything that helps improve that should be welcomed. I pay taxes in OKC and I support anything that improves downtown.

[OKCisOK4me]

Man, worked a bridal show inside of the Sheraton Century Ballroom yesterday and it opens up to the Century Center. WOW, time machines do exist. Walk through that door and you'll clearly be shot to that point in time. Talk about ugly. I was going to say the place was definitely a hole but seems PhiAlpha has already done so, lol.

[Lauri101]

Man, worked a bridal show inside of the Sheraton Century Ballroom yesterday and it opens up to the Century Center. WOW, time machines do exist. Walk through that door and you'll clearly be shot to that point in time. Talk about ugly. I was going to say the place was definitely a hole but seems PhiAlpha has already done so, lol.

I walk through it twice a day to park in basement. I took a picture on January 30 of a styrofoam cup next to a spoon, sitting next to one of the windows by the staircase on first floor. It was still there yesterday. No one cleans in there - it's so nasty even the bums won't hide out in there.

Lately, a bunch of cheap looking furniture has been piled in center and is slowly being hauled out by day laborers. Maybe hotel is remodeling? Or just clearing excess out so the Century Center building will be empty?

Bring on the roving gangs of pocket-protected OPUBCO employees! It'd be nice to have to company!