Scissortail Park

[Just the facts]

I am afraid if you start mixing in single family homes the density won't be high enough to support very much retail or services in the area. What do you think a good average density would be for the central core of OKC?

[Spartan]

Thoughts on the Hargreaves designs???

[ABryant]

I left OKC for a few years, and came back there and the power plant was gone. Left again for a few years and stars and stripes park was gone. Never know what they will destroy next.

[Just the facts]

Thoughts on the Hargreaves designs???

Like Sid said, how are people living next to the park going to get into it, walk all the way to the convention center first? It doesn't appear if the designers of this have ever built a park they expect most people to walk to. It seems their only attempt at making it urban was to remove the large parking lot, but clearly if they had a parking lot we can all see exactly where it would need go. And I don't even understand the 'transition from urban to nature' comment. It is in the middle of the city, there is no transition.

On edit: I also don't see any way for a person to traverse the park east to west which is the way most people will be walking when this area is developed. A person living at 6th and Broadway should be able to walk in a mostly straight line to their favorite coffee shop at 6th and Dewey. Any water feature is also going to have a serious impact on walkability bring the 'you can't get there from here' phrase to a new level. With MBG having a water feature and the river just a few blocks away I see no need for another pond.

[CaptDave]

Thoughts on the Hargreaves designs???

When considering each design on its own, I preferred Option 2. I like the Great Lawn and Plaza in the northeast section and the pond/lake. I think the lake may be a bit too large but I did like how the view to Union Station was unobstructed across the lake. That allows people to see one of OKC's great buildings, provide a nice vista from Union Station toward the skyline, and should help Union Station get established as some sort of events center. I preferred this Promenade design - I think this one will entice people to walk from the boulevard down to the river best. I liked having programmed nodes along the east and Robinson that give people a reason to take the walk and see what is next. Also, I think that makes Robinson a natural route for our streetcar system (not to mention connecting it across the river eventually). Leaving the western side less programmed will make the park more of the future residents of C2S front yard. This is what I believe will be one of the primary draws to living in that area.

I think it can be improved by working on making it less of a perceived barrier to east-west pedestrian and bicycle traffic (one of the reasons I think the lake is somewhat oversized). Some concerns were raised at the meeting that Perez Park should be better incorporated and I think that can be done with a wye arrangement of sidewalks and maybe a prominent fountain or large piece of art in that direction. In the future, the river park will need a destination on the river bank for the Promenade and a way to connect to the southern riverbank. The C2S conceptual drawings showed two relatively large residential towers in this area but I am not sure about that - at least not for a long time. It would be pretty cool to walk or bike to work along the Promenade though. I am concerned about being able to maintain it in"as delivered" condition. O&M will be critical because we absolutely cannot permit any part of it to fall into disrepair or even give that impression.

I think the designers are off to a good start. I am looking forward to this park and the streetcar system more than any other because I think these are the two transformative projects in MAPS3. It will be interesting to see how the design evolves at the next meeting.

[Spartan]

Well, it probably won't surprise anyone that I'm a little underwhelmed by the first three concepts. However, what I'm astonished by is their insensitivity toward the local community. The old brick buildings along Robinson all could and should be repurposed into pavilions, interactive facilities, cafés, etc..

The Hargreaves architect just flew in and thought cool there's nothing here, even the local leaders say so, we'll just do whatever. They clearly don't understand how brick is ingrained in our community identity, and we have way too little of it left that is authentically historic that we can't be trading more grass for brick.

That said, I think the large lake may not just be an excellent sight line for Union Station, but also a good solution for programming relative to the MBG. I do also like the active edge along Robinson.

[edcrunk]

I opened up a Dance club in the basement of SW 5th and Broadway and my partner has a haunted house on the floors above, the building is almost 100 years old... do you guys think it is in danger of being torn down. It's about a block away from the park I think.

[CaptDave]

Went down to the Central Park location to look around again. 70 acres sounds like a lot but it really isn't as large as you might think - especially the 40 acre upper park. I think the designers have to be careful not to try to stuff too much into the park lest it appear too crowded with "stuff". They will have to strike a balance and make some tough choices later in the process. I am not sure what the buildings many have talked about might be used for in a park environment. I wish a couple of them were across Robinson because they are nice structures and could be redeveloped into mixed use. There isn't much on the western side worth worrying about in my opinion and hopefully we will see some residential development get started while park construction is still in progress. The more I wander around the area, the more I look forward to the new park.

[CaptDave]

I opened up a Dance club in the basement of SW 5th and Broadway and my partner has a haunted house on the floors above, the building is almost 100 years old... do you guys think it is in danger of being torn down. It's about a block away from the park I think.

Pretty sure I saw this - The Sanctuary? I think that building is safe unless the convention center location is reconsidered and moved to the original "preferred" site.

[Spartan]

No they'll tear it down anyway..

[Rover]

No they'll tear it down anyway..

Spartan, is this you being grouchy or do you know for a fact there are plans to tear it down?

[betts]

I love that building. And it's not a part of the park. It seems like a logical building to save.

[KayneMo]

I like Alternative 1 the best.

[Spartan]

Spartan, is this you being grouchy or do you know for a fact there are plans to tear it down?

Yes, OCURA has been tasked to acquire all the parcels surrounding the park

[OKCisOK4me]

I opened up a Dance club in the basement of SW 5th and Broadway and my partner has a haunted house on the floors above, the building is almost 100 years old... do you guys think it is in danger of being torn down. It's about a block away from the park I think.

Ed, you're east of the substation and they're keeping that, so I'm sure your business will be fine.

[ThomPaine]

CaptDave- you mentioned the size of our park...
Not that it is the model, but Millennium Park in Chicago is about 25 acres, and has an outdoor concert pavilion that seats over 10k. They've done quite a lot there. Of course, it's part of a larger 300+ acre park that has lots of buildings, green space, roads, walkways, and that very, very large pond.

[Just the facts]

To keep the comparison going, Rittenhouse Sq in Philly is only 7 acres.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rittenhouse_Square

[CaptDave]

Thom/JTF, That is kind of what I was getting at. We need to decide what we want this park to be; my understanding is the Myriad will be the densely programmed park a la Millennium and Central Park will be more natural with selected areas of programming. I think they struck a pretty good balance with the intitial three concepts and only hope they refine it to be a source of civic pride and not "what could have been". But overall, I think it is going to be a great place and hopefully something that will speed up the redevelopment in the C2S area.

[catch22]

I'm pretty underwhelmed by all 3. Would like to see more E/W access along the park.

[Pete]

The still haven't posted the presentation given to the park subcommittee, so I took screen captures of the three general concepts:

[jn1780]

Whats the deal with the line of trees on the east side of the park on all three plans? Block the substation view from the rest of the park?

[hoya]

I'm not sure I like any of the designs. Of course it's hard to tell given the lack of detail in these pics. I needs me some artistic renderings, with pictures of people walking by trees and stuff. I do like the big lake though.

[Snowman]

Whats the deal with the line of trees on the east side of the park on all three plans? Block the substation view from the rest of the park?

What says natural better than evenly spaced trees in a strait (or slightly curved) line though?

[Just the facts]

Still no way for people living next to the park to get into the park. The Convention Center has better access than residents living 40 feet away.

[catch22]

What says natural better than evenly spaced trees in a strait (or slightly curved) line though?

Well even though a park is generally 'open space'. You still need to define that space. The trees create a streetwall in lieu of buildings. See how they are used in the Devon area and MBG area along the sidewalk to define the street space and to create an enclosed park space on the other side.