SandRidge Center & Commons

[Kerry]

Are they going to get rid of the parking garage that surrounds the Kerr McGee building? That will really help bring Dean A McGee into the rest of downtown.

[Architect2010]

It seems they are Kerry. But not entirely, it looks like the portions to the north and north west of the tower will be demolished. The eastern portion however will stay.

[khook]

I still say that in the twenty block defined area of downtown CBD of Oklahoma City you are not going to get any higher densities than what you already have existing. If you look at the built section of those twenty blocks, they are pretty well developed with existing structures that have been designed primarly for specfic tenants. The exceptions being the old galleria parking lot - (the devon site), the block proposed to be the chamber of commerce site, and Kerr Park. The only way you will get higher density is to demolish something and build a new larger structure. Creating green spaces that can be used by the whole community while interacting with the build environment will help create energy between the two. By using the Project 180 plans and melding the Sandridge campus with those plans, you start to get a green corridor of life throughout the downtown. If you just have sidewalks it just becomes another "underground" corridor that happens to be street level. It would be nice to see retail all along the street level of downtown, but I don't think this is a real model for retailers today. I still feel that creating vibrant green paths that connect to each other will provide a synergism of spaces and energies to develop and to spur other redevelopment along side it. The real growth for higher densities are the areas outside the CBD- The Arts District, Midtown, and Core to shore.

[Rover]

Oklahoma City CBD will never be like NY City, Chicago, or other highly urbanized, extremely high density development. I think it should reflect our culture and expectations. I personally believe that the green city of reasonable high density will create an inviting area to go to work in. We are not an uptight city. We are a country casual, upwardly sophisticated culture that still respects our spaces. We can do this and develop pockets of exciting retail and residences in areas we are developing in and around the central area. I like the mid-town character, and automobile alley, and deep deuce, film area, etc. Each has distinct character and will be part of the mosaic that is downtown.

Let's create our own model of humane, urbane, western chic and sophisticated living, without trying to be something we aren't. Embrace the unique character that is developing in the CBD and quit trying to make it from some template.

Just MHO

[Spartan]

Oklahoma City CBD will never be like NY City, Chicago, or other highly urbanized, extremely high density development. I think it should reflect our culture and expectations. I personally believe that the green city of reasonable high density will create an inviting area to go to work in. We are not an uptight city. We are a country casual, upwardly sophisticated culture that still respects our spaces. We can do this and develop pockets of exciting retail and residences in areas we are developing in and around the central area. I like the mid-town character, and automobile alley, and deep deuce, film area, etc. Each has distinct character and will be part of the mosaic that is downtown.

Let's create our own model of humane, urbane, western chic and sophisticated living, without trying to be something we aren't. Embrace the unique character that is developing in the CBD and quit trying to make it from some template.

Just MHO

What are you saying here, though? That all sounds nice and lovely, but honestly, I don't see what this has to do with the SandRidge proposal. Either you're for it because you believe it will benefit the human environment of downtown, or you're against it because you believe it will be detrimental to the human environment of downtown. Which is it?

I don't see how creating our own model of humane, urbane, western chic, and upwardly sophisticated living blah blah blah has to do with whether you think KerMac and the India Temple need to stay or need to go.

[Kerry]

If you ask me I think OKC has pretty dense downtown right now. When you look at downtown OKC from 10 miles away it looks like one solid mass. Not all downtowns (especially ones with lots of green space) have that silhouette.

OKC - very dense


Sacramento - not so dense. Just as many tall building but in 5X the space. You would never guess they had over 1,000,000 more people.

[Spartan]

Sacramento's downtown looks healthier in that picture. But let's examine TRUE density. Not density of a high rise cluster, but the overall density of the built environment. You'll find that OKC is in fact QUITE lacking, urban renewal excuses or not.

OKC


Nashville


Louisville


Memphis


Birmingham

[Steve]

As an aside, what is the cut-in-half circle development in the heart of the Louisville photo? Is that housing? Quite intriguing.

[Kerry]

This one should bring a tear to your eye. OKC can't afford another plaza at the expense of existing structures.

[Steve]

That photo must be on one of those days I get hit with emails saying there's no place to park in Bricktown.

[OUGrad05]

So sandridge is going to demolish a building downtown? Replace it with what? Office or living space?

Most importantly where is SD going to get the money for this project? They're struggling a bit right now, demolition of existing structures poses potential problems for downtown, espeically if SD doesn't fullfill their end of the bargain. The city can and should get some big assurances that whatever they do gets DONE.

[Kerry]

OUGrad - they are going to replace 2 existing buildings with brick pavers and grass.

Steve - everytime someone complains about Bricktown parking just forward that photo to them.

[Spartan]

I dunno what the circle development in Louisville is, but I agree that it is an intriguing use of space. I like it.

OUGrad05 -- $100 million is NOT a lot of money for a corporate redevelopment project. Devon is spending $750 million. Chesapeake has spent way more than $100 million too. SandRidge is still getting an absolute bargain with their corporate campus. Office space is an essential need for them, kind of like paper clips..or natural gas wells.

[architect5311]

Downtown Oklahoma City in it's dense urban prime state.


And the PEI Plan demolition (shown red) which destroyed the urban density that many cities maintained during Urban Renewal.


Unfortunately this urban fabric will not return to downtown Oklahoma City. While we all embrace the Devon project with it's setback and front yard, the urban sprawl continues with MAPS 3 and C2S...............I tend to agree with the above post.......creating a new urbanism for what is Downtown Oklahoma City.

[Kerry]

I say we track down I.M. Pei and kick him in the nuts.

[lasomeday]

When does this project go up to the city for approval? I think we should get a group together to protest the merits of it.

[architect5311]

I say we track down I.M. Pei and kick him in the nuts.

I think the same thing every time this issue comes up, along with the City leaders who brought him in here and allowed this.........

[Kerry]

What was the IM Pei plan anyhow? Surely it was more than tearing down hundreds of old buildings and trying to build a downtown mall. There was a lot of land cleared, what happened that made it all go wrong? Was there a plan to put anything back on all the newly cleared land? I mean beside a Ford Dealership, junk yards, and surface parking.

[architect5311]

Wilkipedia has a good summary of the Pei Plan and the City's implementation of..........

Pei Plan (Oklahoma City) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[OUGrad05]

OUGrad - they are going to replace 2 existing buildings with brick pavers and grass.

Steve - everytime someone complains about Bricktown parking just forward that photo to them.

Anytime I hear about the destruction of current structures it makes me cringe a little...

I dunno what the circle development in Louisville is, but I agree that it is an intriguing use of space. I like it.

OUGrad05 -- $100 million is NOT a lot of money for a corporate redevelopment project. Devon is spending $750 million. Chesapeake has spent way more than $100 million too. SandRidge is still getting an absolute bargain with their corporate campus. Office space is an essential need for them, kind of like paper clips..or natural gas wells.

spartan I'm well aware of corporate development, its costs and the industry I work in...the fact is SD is struggling and is not currently profitible, they just agreed to an 800 million dollar acquisition

Financial Statements for SandRidge Energy Inc. - Google Finance

As you can see there are some problems. I would urge you to look over their financials in detail and you will see what I am talking about.

I want SD to do well as I do all companies in our state, but I do not want them to make promises, demolish buildings and then fail to follow through on their end due to financial hardship, it wouldn't be the first time the city was on the losing end of such a deal.

[Spartan]

Downtown Oklahoma City in it's dense urban prime state.


And the PEI Plan demolition (shown red) which destroyed the urban density that many cities maintained during Urban Renewal.


Unfortunately this urban fabric will not return to downtown Oklahoma City. While we all embrace the Devon project with it's setback and front yard, the urban sprawl continues with MAPS 3 and C2S...............I tend to agree with the above post.......creating a new urbanism for what is Downtown Oklahoma City.

You're right, it's the Pei Plan all over again. The only relevance old photographs of the density we lost have anymore are to show how we've backtracked, and we're still backtracking. We are combining a great park and a convention center and lumping together unprecedented sizes of superblocks, a classic urban renewal mistake. We are tearing down great old buildings with fantastic detail that could EASILY be renovated into housing, for windswept plazas..another classic urban renewal mistake.

I really wish someone would tally up all of the plazas that are currently in the works for OKC..it's quite surprising, we've got Devon (a good project so we'll let a plaza slide), the Chamber, Sand Ridge, BOK renovated theirs recently, the list goes on and on.. We don't need new plazas. We need to eliminate and develop these plazas. Not go the other way, which is what we're doing.

But never before have we seen so much urban renewal in OKC since the 1970s, maybe even the 1960s. It's baaaaack.

[David Pollard]

Guys, all of this discussion is encouraging, but we need really get politically active. Does anyone know if the Criterion Group is still active?

The Criterion Group -- Advocating preservation of historic Oklahoma City architecture -- About

If so, this might be a good platform to galvanize support for an intelligent solution to the "Sandridge Question" that would benefit the historical bones of the city as well as the company itself. It may be that Sandridge just needs to be shown that there are good architectural alternatives to wholsale destruction of historic buildings.

Take the case of Chijmes Cloister in Singapore. It was just a group of decaying buildings, but was revitalized into a fantastic urban entertainment center while still preserving the historical character: CHIJMES
I quote from their site:

" Unlike a new development which is built with facilities to suit its tenants, Chijmes had to work the other way round -determining the functions and facilities that would work best within the constraints and specifications of the site. The heritage aspects of the site, the design features and the quality of restoration were foremost in the planning stages. High standards and criteria were set for careful preservation and adapting the building for new use".


Now granted, the historic buildings we are talking about downtown don't have the flair of Chijmes, but nonetheless, they are some of the few remaining vestiges of what this city meant in the past. With this approach in mind, Sandridge could make its 'campus' (inappropriate word here as it implies that this is not an urban environment) into the living, breathing heart of the city. NOT an out-of-place downtown prairie. They could easily make their skyscraper a new icon by filling its direct surroundings with restaurants, retail, museums, etc. Much like Chijmes.

Let's help them with inspiration for all the possibilities, and if they prove to be inflexible, take this argument to the people! We cannot let this happen again.

[Platemaker]

I wonder if everyone knows that Couch Drive between Robinson and Broadway will become a pedestrian street in Project 180 and how that will relate to Sandridge's plan?

[dcsooner]

Downtown Oklahoma City in it's dense urban prime state.


And the PEI Plan demolition (shown red) which destroyed the urban density that many cities maintained during Urban Renewal.


Unfortunately this urban fabric will not return to downtown Oklahoma City. While we all embrace the Devon project with it's setback and front yard, the urban sprawl continues with MAPS 3 and C2S...............I tend to agree with the above post.......creating a new urbanism for what is Downtown Oklahoma City.

WHOW! urban renewal destroyed what was a pretty robust downtown.

[Rover]

After my earlier post I was called out to say whether I am for or against the Sandridge plan. I guess I am somewhat agnostic about it but am saying that, if executed to the plan, it can create a desirable corporate destination and an enjoyable environment. That in turn will help create demand for people to remain downtown and will create demand for urban housing, which in turn creates demand for retail. No amount of construction will create demand. Only jobs and people wanting to work downtown will create demand for housing. And until you have people WANTING to live downtown you can forget about housing and retail. People will not move downtown and work in the suburbs...it just doesn't work that way.

I travel to all those cities you compared us to and I certainly do not believe (from observation and being in the construction business in those cities) that any of those downtown urban areas are desirable. The closest model we may have is in Austin where they are developing the urban living. However, it's downtown hasn't been a high rise mecca until pretty recently. FIRST, the corporate developments have to be there to create the jobs. THEN the people follow. OKC has to support getting good corporate buildings with growing employment base and then create incentives to infill with urban style residential and street level retail. Otherwise we will continue to get low rise apartment style development in and around downtown. That will be the kiss of death in 10 years.

So, rather than keep a couple of dilapidated and empty low rise buildings around a magnet employer who wishes to create a better environment in which to attract prime employees, I would rather they remodel, rebuild and re-landscape the area.