Access Oklahoma Turnpike Projects

[josefromtulsa]

I don't think you realize how many also use the spur near riverwind. the section of this highway that is absolutely needed and going to have a huge impact is the bridge across the river and connecting 44 to 35.

thinking this is being built because of indian hills traffic alone is laughable. the extension from 35 to the far side of norman needs to include robinson and techemseh traffic counts as well. because most going from 35 to sooner, will probably use this over those routes now.

Do you think the future Sooner Road and EWC intersection will just be fields and trees forever? Within 10 years of this turnpike being built it will look just like I-35 and Robinson. And the commuters will be back to the same commute time if not worse because now more folks are using I-35 to get downtown. No one is going to give themselves a 16 mile detour and use it all the way to I-40.

[jedicurt]

Do you think the future Sooner Road and EWC intersection will just be fields and trees forever? Within 10 years of this turnpike being built it will look just like I-35 and Robinson. And the commuters will be back to the same commute time if not worse because now more folks are using I-35 to get downtown. No one is going to give themselves a 16 mile detour and use it all the way to I-40.

Do you really think they aren't already going to develop in the next 10-20 years and there just won't be any form of infrastructure to support it if we don't do this? You do realize that development is already happening, and traffic will come and if we don't build for that traffic now, we will have to play catchup later. It's all going to just get worse. or are you under the assumption that if this isn't built, that no development is ever going to happen along these routes?

[josefromtulsa]

Well seeing that the parcels to SE and SW of the intersection are owned by Shaz Investments it is certain that homes will be built. How much they make just depends on whether the EWC are built. As it stands much of the area is the urban fringe because travel times are too long.

Im not ant-growth but pro smart-growth. Its much better for cities to focus on infill and take advantage of existing infrastructure instead of falling into the growth ponzi-scheme. Some folks certainly want to live in suburbs and thats okay. But as current land use and transportation policy stand it is essentially the only option.

[BoulderSooner]

But it will, very quickly. Why do you speak in absolutes all the time? Or seem to think that OKC's done growing?

Or maybe you think that traffic won't be a problem in your lifetime, so why should you care?

I am very much pro growth and planning for the future .. so that we continue to not have traffic .. so I am very much for these projects

[BoulderSooner]

And if you think Semis will I will just say "Texas SH-130")

tons of truck traffic will take the kickapoo from I35 to I44 and by pass OKC .. it will be about 10 miles shorter with less traffic ..

[josefromtulsa]

tons of truck traffic will take the kickapoo from I35 to I44 and by pass OKC .. it will be about 10 miles shorter with less traffic ..

Long haulers coming from Dallas going to Tulsa and beyond use US-69. It is about 60 miles shorter with less traffic.

Eastbound freight traffic from Dallas uses I-30 to meet I-40 in Little Rock. These turnpikes may help all the semi truck traffic coming from Purcell and Wynnewood I guess.

Northbound I-35 freight wont use it if its cost more than a few dollars. Once again look at SH-130 which bypasses I-35 in Austin.

[bison34]

Long haulers coming from Dallas going to Tulsa and beyond use US-69. It is about 60 miles shorter with less traffic.

Eastbound freight traffic from Dallas uses I-30 to meet I-40 in Little Rock. These turnpikes may help all the semi truck traffic coming from Purcell and Wynnewood I guess.

Northbound I-35 freight wont use it if its cost more than a few dollars. Once again look at SH-130 which bypasses I-35 in Austin.

No wonder no one ever comes to OKC. They'd rather take the scenic route through east Texas or Muskogee and Durant...

[josefromtulsa]

I am very much pro growth and planning for the future .. so that we continue to not have traffic .. so I am very much for these projects

If that were the case you wouldnt want to incentivize further single family, Euclidean zoning, and car dependency. You would pushing for the state to invest in transit and mixed use developments so that traffic is not an issue 20 years down the line.

No wonder no one ever comes to OKC. They'd rather take the scenic route through east Texas or Muskogee and Durant...

I forgot to consider visitors to OKC would use the OKC bypass to get OKC

[jedicurt]

Once again look at SH-130 which bypasses I-35 in Austin.

Traffic Counts for 130 north of the Austin airport are 55,000 per day. that's 1/3rd the traffic of I-35 per day... someone is using it. and the 183 toll road is 46,000 per day. so there are 100,000 a day avoiding a road that has traffic counts of around 160,000 a day once you get out of downtown Austin.

heck, you get all the way up to Georgetown where they meet back up, so looking at people leaving Austin to Dallas, I35 in Georgetown is 93,000, 130 is 40,000. so it's going from about a 3rd of overall traffic to just shy of half (43%). so again, someone is using it.

[scottk]

tons of truck traffic will take the kickapoo from I35 to I44 and by pass OKC .. it will be about 10 miles shorter with less traffic ..

On a similar note, for those who travel to and from Joplin or St. Louis often and take the Will Roger's Turnpike to and from the Missouri State line into Tulsa, when you get to Tulsa do you stay on I-44 all the way through, or do you take the outer Creek Turnpike loop that takes you through south Broken Arrow and Jenks. The southern turnpike route is about 10 extra miles than just going on I-44 and about 10 extra minutes from the Catoosa split to Sapulpa split.

Even then, you are still going through large chunks of well developed south Tulsa metro with plenty of places to stop, shop, dine, etc.

The complete Kickapoo Turnpike route when completed from I-35 to I-44 appears that it will really bypass ALL of the OKC metro.

[LakeEffect]

On a similar note, for those who travel to and from Joplin or St. Louis often and take the Will Roger's Turnpike to and from the Missouri State line into Tulsa, when you get to Tulsa do you stay on I-44 all the way through, or do you take the outer Creek Turnpike loop that takes you through south Broken Arrow and Jenks. The southern turnpike route is about 10 extra miles than just going on I-44 and about 10 extra minutes from the Catoosa split to Sapulpa split.

We frequently go through Tulsa to/from Michigan or other SW Missouri/NE Arkansas road trips, and the Creek is never faster. Even when I-44 has been under construction. We tried using the Creek a few times, but it's never made sense as a real bypass.

[stlokc]

I travel back and forth from Missouri to OKC regularly. One time I made the mistake of trying the Creek turnpike. More just "to see it" than any other reason. Huge mistake. Took much longer than just going right through on I-44.

[bombermwc]

Eastbound freight traffic from Dallas uses I-30 to meet I-40 in Little Rock. These turnpikes may help all the semi truck traffic coming from Purcell and Wynnewood I guess.

I may have misunderstood, but are you trying to say that a trucker would purposely choose to go through Dallas instead, to avoid OKC? Last time i checked, I-20 coming from the west side of Dallas didn't come FROM anywhere. Yes it does tie in to I-10 wtf down in the armpit of Texas. But the more heavy traffic comes from LA via I-40.

[jn1780]

We frequently go through Tulsa to/from Michigan or other SW Missouri/NE Arkansas road trips, and the Creek is never faster. Even when I-44 has been under construction. We tried using the Creek a few times, but it's never made sense as a real bypass.

If it didn't back track 10 miles maybe it would. That's why we need to build these OKC metro area turnpikes now and not wait 20 years and have weird routes.

Also, even though it does have an inefficient route, it does serve its purpose on getting vehicles off of the other interstates going through the Tulsa Metro.

[josefromtulsa]

I may have misunderstood, but are you trying to say that a trucker would purposely choose to go through Dallas instead, to avoid OKC? Last time i checked, I-20 coming from the west side of Dallas didn't come FROM anywhere. Yes it does tie in to I-10 wtf down in the armpit of Texas. But the more heavy traffic comes from LA via I-40.

No i am saying long haul trucks are not going to go up I-35 then east on I-40 which would give the bypass a reason to be built.

And you are right!
A lot of the traffic is east on I-40 which also wouldn't use this proposed bypass.

[MagzOK]

We frequently go through Tulsa to/from Michigan or other SW Missouri/NE Arkansas road trips, and the Creek is never faster. Even when I-44 has been under construction. We tried using the Creek a few times, but it's never made sense as a real bypass.

I agree. The problem with the Creek is that it goes so far out of the way while I44 basically continues its NW trajectory through the city.

The Kickapoo will be different as the Kickapoo's trajectory will pretty much stay parallel to I-35 up to the Turner. I hope one day the Kickapoo will continue north and west back over to I35.

[scottk]

I agree. The problem with the Creek is that it goes so far out of the way while I44 basically continues its NW trajectory through the city.

The Kickapoo will be different as the Kickapoo's trajectory will pretty much stay parallel to I-35 up to the Turner. I hope one day the Kickapoo will continue north and west back over to I35.

If it went north, it would be great if it could make it to at least the 77/I35 split just south of Guthrie and divert Semi-traffic that is going east to I-40. If you wanted to dream big, push it all the way to Stillwater and incorporate it somehow into the Cimarron Turnpike for a fully integrated system and secondary method to get to Tulsa.

[bombermwc]

Well one thing to consider is the port of Memphis. It's an intermodal hub right on I-40. I wonder how much of it comes our way instead of turning in Little Rock? If it's back and forth to Houston, then there are 3 other ways to go besides OKC.

Stay with me here, but what if this is just a part of the future vision to add another north side loop on the far northern side of Edmond at some point? If it continues past I-44 and then loops west, it could connect to 35. By the time that is built, 35 will be a parking lot and even going the extra miles, might be faster. How many trucks want to pay for that? I don't know. By then, they might all be electric and autonomous, so would they even care anymore? Hey, lots to think about.

[rte66man]

If it went north, it would be great if it could make it to at least the 77/I35 split just south of Guthrie and divert Semi-traffic that is going east to I-40. If you wanted to dream big, push it all the way to Stillwater and incorporate it somehow into the Cimarron Turnpike for a fully integrated system and secondary method to get to Tulsa.

IIRC, the plan is to bend it west to meet I-35 just south of Seward Rd.

[Snowman]

Well one thing to consider is the port of Memphis. It's an intermodal hub right on I-40. I wonder how much of it comes our way instead of turning in Little Rock? If it's back and forth to Houston, then there are 3 other ways to go besides OKC.

Stay with me here, but what if this is just a part of the future vision to add another north side loop on the far northern side of Edmond at some point? If it continues past I-44 and then loops west, it could connect to 35. By the time that is built, 35 will be a parking lot and even going the extra miles, might be faster. How many trucks want to pay for that? I don't know. By then, they might all be electric and autonomous, so would they even care anymore? Hey, lots to think about.

The bulk cargo that can come via river ports and large volumes come via interstate to OKC, is cheaper to send on to Tulsa and truck the shorter distance. At least some of the items like road salt and constructions materials had been noted to have been doing that for some time by one of OKC's public works staff years ago. Even items needed on 40 near the Oklahoma boarder is probably much cheaper from the port in Fort Smith.

[Plutonic Panda]

If it went north, it would be great if it could make it to at least the 77/I35 split just south of Guthrie and divert Semi-traffic that is going east to I-40. If you wanted to dream big, push it all the way to Stillwater and incorporate it somehow into the Cimarron Turnpike for a fully integrated system and secondary method to get to Tulsa.

That is in the long term plan just not part of the Access Oklahoma plan. It would nice to see a connection across I-35 north of Waterloo for a freeway to connect with SH-74 which needs to be upgraded to a full freeway.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't think you realize how many also use the spur near riverwind. the section of this highway that is absolutely needed and going to have a huge impact is the bridge across the river and connecting 44 to 35.

thinking this is being built because of indian hills traffic alone is laughable. the extension from 35 to the far side of norman needs to include robinson and techemseh traffic counts as well. because most going from 35 to sooner, will probably use this over those routes now.

That entire spur and road connecting from I-35 to I-44 needs to be connected to the Kilpatrick somehow even if it requires taking homes and properties in Mustang. It was so short sighted to allow so much development and no ROW for a freeway connection. Eventually they should create a loop to connect it to I-40 around Mustang/Yukon area to support existing growth and allow for more.

[mugofbeer]

IIRC, the plan is to bend it west to meet I-35 just south of Seward Rd.

According to what plan?

[jn1780]

According to what plan?

Long-term aspiration is a better term to use. Access Oklahoma is a 15-year plan so we are looking at 2 decades before they consider doing that.

[Plutonic Panda]

According to what plan?

OTA's long range plan and the Oklahoma legislators drafting a bill to create a corridor the OTA can build on in the future.