NFL in OKC

[Laramie]

Fort Worth-Arlington area is where all the new growth is in the Metroplex. Dallas is 95% occupied--litte room for growth.

The 2012 population estimate for Fort Worth is 777,000 and Arlington is 375,000. Arlington is about the size of Tulsa.

Source: U.S. Census Quick Facts State and County QuickFacts

The MLB Texas Rangers and the NFL Dallas Cowboys reside in Arlington in separate venues. We know the City of Arlington and the Rangers built the Ballpark and the Cowboys built AT&T (JerrysWorld).

We are fortunate, our sales tax rates range is 8.25-8.375 cents/dollar in the OKC area; the Metroplex sales tax rate range from 9 -12 cents/dollar. Event Parking around the American Airlines Center (Mavericks/Stars) is $30 to $50. We pay $5 - $15 on nights the Thunder are home.

I own property in Oklahoma and Texas and when I claimed 'homestead' when I lived here vs. when I was living in the Metroplex (can't claim both states at the same time); I paid two-three times in property taxes more in Texas than in Oklahoma--whichever state I qualified for the exemption. My property in East Texas is much cheaper. You pay the County and the School District in most Texas city/county arrangements.

[bluedogok]

Dallas is landlocked for the most part, especially to the north but the north Dallas burbs are growing fast as well as those in the mid-cities and Fort Worth. Just 20 years ago when I lived there 121 was still a two lane road with barbed wire and fields on both sides, and McKinney was way outside of town, now it is just another burb. There was also a discernable gap in development between Carrollton, Lewisville and Denton, now they are just merged together.

Our property tax in Austin was 3,400 in 2012 (partial year residents there) for a house valued by Travis County at 155,000, we were 4 miles south of downtown in AISD. Our house valued for 265,000 in Unincorporated Arapahoe County (between Aurora and Centennial, Colorado) has property taxes of almost 1,300 (2013 taxes), that is in the Cherry Creek School District which is not one of the cheaper districts. Even if we lived in Aurora proper (in CCSD) the taxes would only be about 300-400 more. I know people in DFW who are not Oklahoma natives (no connection at all) and are buying lake property on the Oklahoma side of Texoma, Lake Murray or Lake of the Arbuckles because of the property tax differences. Most are buying it for retirement.

[Laramie]

Has anyone seen this site:

Could Your City Give a Sports Team a Good Home?

Just can't figure out their logic for Tulsa being able to support one of the following:

NHL * NFL * NBA * MLS

We (OKC) already have the NBA which means that there are about $15 MM left to support one of the other sports which would make us marginal for MLS.
We're at 49.23 with 15.0 available for being marginal with the MLS.

Tulsa ranked Yes for any one of the following: NHL, NFL, NBA & MLS.
Tulsa is right at 38.35 with 38.3 available for each of those catagories.

New Orleans received 52.48 with a -18.4. They have NFL & NBA. Could the tourists dollars be making up for this adjustment?

We definitely need to promote more venues which could increase our tourism intake.

What are your thoughts? Am I reading this wrong? Those with high stat apt please feel free to chime in...

[hoya]

They are looking at overall household income in the area. So OKC has $49 billion in personal income. They calculate that you need $34.2 billion in income to support the NBA. That leaves us $14.8 billion remaining to support other pro teams. They estimate that Major League Soccer requires $15.4 billion. So we'd be over-extended if we got another team. And given the size of our market and our overall income, only MLS would really be feasible. Hence, we're "marginal" with it.

Tulsa, on the other hand, has $38.35 billion in personal income. They are (according to these figures) using precisely zero of that to support a pro team. So they could support the NHL, the NFL, the NBA, or MLS. Note that the NFL, NBA, or NHL would basically eat up every penny they had.

New Orleans is actually over-extended. What we're seeing now is that they can't support both teams. Yes, they have the NFL and NBA, but the Hornets are not long for the city and it was only sympathy from Hurricane Katrina that kept them there as long as they have been.

[Kokopelli]

Has anyone seen this site:

Could Your City Give a Sports Team a Good Home?

Just can't figure out their logic for Tulsa being able to support one of the following:

This site is using a formula that was developed by bizjournals a couple of years ago, to read more about the methodology used you can visit:

Methodology: Market Capacity for Pro Sports

[Laramie]

Thanks,

Kokopelli

[bluedogok]

New Orleans is actually over-extended. What we're seeing now is that they can't support both teams. Yes, they have the NFL and NBA, but the Hornets are not long for the city and it was only sympathy from Hurricane Katrina that kept them there as long as they have been.

They are the Pelicans now...Charlotte is taking back the Hornets name starting for the 2014-15 season.

[Bunty]

Probably the vast majority of ticket holders were already in the suburbs. In some ways it will make it easier to pay debt after the fall out is over of the case. Longer term though their bigger problem is that things like migration out of town, low housing prices, crime, unusually low income of tax base, corruption and slow job creation still have a lot of work after the bankruptcy process is over if they are to be solved. Though there is also a chance one of the wealthier suburbs or the state may pick up the tab on the next stadium.

Keep in mind that the Detroit metro area has as many people in it as all of Oklahoma. That's quite a cushion in the face of bankrupt Detroit.

[Bunty]

They are the Pelicans now...Charlotte is taking back the Hornets name starting for the 2014-15 season.

Pelicans? Doesn't sound like a good name for a football team, unless they want to come across as underdogs, or underbirds as in the Pelicans against the Eagles.

[Snowman]

Pelicans? Doesn't sound like a good name for a football team, unless they want to come across as underdogs, or underbirds as in the Pelicans against the Eagles.

It is for their basketball team, not that it is any better for basketball than football

[Dubya61]

It is for their basketball team, not that it is any better for basketball than football

Supposedly, it's an homage to the nickname for the state: The Pelican State. Looks like they're trying to increase the buy in for the Pelicans nee Hornets as more then just a New Orleans thing.

[Laramie]

The first time I heard the name New Orleans Pelicans was way back before New Orleans and Atlanta were awarded NFL expansion franchises.

Sports Illustrated had the teams listed for name sake as the:

New Orleans Pelicans
Atlanta Crackers (meaning firecrackers).

If you're from the South, you know as well as I do why that nane (Crackers) didn't go over regardless of what was intended.

I was surprised to see the name Pelicans resurface until I heard why they wanted to use it.

Can you imagine the Thunder someday becoming the Oklahoma City Supersooners? Wouldn't have been as controversial as the Oklahoma City Supersonics?

[OKC_Chipper]

Pretty interesting story from ex-OSU QB Rusty Hilger Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City RUSTY HILGER

[MikeLucky]

Supposedly, it's an homage to the nickname for the state: The Pelican State. Looks like they're trying to increase the buy in for the Pelicans nee Hornets as more then just a New Orleans thing.

Supposedly for sure... they just used it as a reason to give Charlotte back the Hornets name before the New Orleans team moves somewhere else and changes anyway.

[warreng88]

Pretty interesting story from ex-OSU QB Rusty Hilger Oakland Raiders Stadium Plan A Field Of Dreams In Oklahoma City RUSTY HILGER

I am a little confused on that rendering in the article. Was that supposed to OKC or Oakland?

I don't think we will see an NFL team here by 2020, but soon after that could work. We would only have 8-10 games/year and they would fall mostly on Sunday, Monday and sometimes Thursday. With a population the size of Oklahoma City and having two major sports teams, the teams would have to work with each other to make sure we don't have a lot of overlapping going on when it comes to games. Of course, that would only be an issue for about 10 or so NFL games/year.

It would be cool if one of the guys fighting to bring in pro soccer would buy into an ownership group and get the stadium built to house both football and soccer. Kill two birds with one stone.

[Pete]

The rendering is the of the proposed Farmers Field in downtown L.A.

Rusty Hilger is just putting forth an idea without anything to back it up.

[Teo9969]

While I hold that OKC *could* support an NFL team in about 12 years were our corporations to be in good enough standing (it would take an unbelievable next 12 years) I don't want OKC to get another professional franchise until 2030 at the earliest. This city already spends way too much on sports as it is between the Thunder and OU and the myriad other sports things. At some point, we need to invest more in the arts and education.

[Laramie]

Revival of the USFL may be an option to professional football outside the NFL. Formation of a new league just below the NFL could be attractive. You will see more articles like this in the next three to five years.

Boston Globe By Kevin Paul Dupont
| February 17, 2013


Other than that seed money, USFL owners must prove they have another $6.5 million in ready cash to run the team each year.

“That’s really not a lot,’’ said Cuadra, who was born in Nicaragua and came to the US six months later when his family moved to San Francisco. “We really feel that we’ve nailed it down.’’

Ideally, said Cuadra, the USFL will evolve in three or four years to a 16-team league, playing almost exclusively in cities absent NFL or Major League Baseball clubs. Cuadra wouldn’t be specific, but cities such as Birmingham, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Austin, Omaha, and others are the league’s primary targets, offering population density and less competition for the sporting dollar.

New USFL aims for new spring football league - Sports - The Boston Globe

If we are going to build a stadium, construct something for multiple use for events like soccer (NASL, MLS), american football (high school, collegiate division II) track & field events, lacrosse, amphitheater and other events.

We're talking about building something 9,000-14,000 seats. We need to be thinking along the lines of 25,000 - 75,000 seats where to expand a stadium for the future we don't exceed original costs through expansion (adding on later).

Who knows? There may be some NFL franchises ready to relocate in around 2020. Do we want to be in a position without having to negotiate with Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium (OU) as we did when we lost the USFL 'Outlaws' to Tulsa in the 70s? That contract OU put before the old USFL sealed the fate of the league from being successful in Oklahoma. Jacksonville's performance in the old World Football Leauge made them more attractive to the NFL.

[josh]

How long has San Antonio been trying? and it sure isn't working out for them... they Built a Stadium to bring an NFL team there... and aside from a few preseason games and the temp relocation of the Saints after Katrina, it has been unused by Pro Football

For San Antonio's case, the issue was that for some odd reason, Paul Tagliabue disliked San Antonio as a market. Then in the early 90s when the NFL extended by two teams, he thought Jacksonville was a better market and had a better future than San Antonio. As we can see some 20 years later, that wasn't two in the least and choosing Jacksonville over San Antonio was a blunder on his part.

[Laramie]

For San Antonio's case, the issue was that for some odd reason, Paul Tagliabue disliked San Antonio as a market. Then in the early 90s when the NFL extended by two teams, he thought Jacksonville was a better market and had a better future than San Antonio. As we can see some 20 years later, that wasn't two in the least and choosing Jacksonville over San Antonio was a blunder on his part.

If I recall, that was 1994-95 expansion Carolina (Charlotte) and Jacksonville were admitted to the NFL while a much bigger markets like San Antonio, St. Louis, Baltimore and Memphis were passed over. The Rams left Los Angeles for St. Louis leaving LA without an NFL franchise as the Raiders returned to Oakland.


Surprisingly, Oklahoma City was considered for expansion back in the 1969-76 era when there was talk of building a 100,000-seat stadium at Fair Park. Insurance executive E.L. "Jim" Roederer, a candidate for mayor was pushing this as a part of his platform. When Roederer was defeated so went the plans for the State Fair financed stadium. OKC was definitely on the NFL's radar.

In 2008 a group of investors led by Jerry Kobyluk proposed building a 100,000-seat retractable dome stadium? This received little if any local media attention.



Proposed NFL Expansion 1969-76:

Proposed NFL Expansion » FootballGeography.com

[Just the facts]

The article suggest we use MAP III money to build the stadium for the Raiders.......
...
....
.....
......
Now that I have stopped laughing, which MAPS III projects get scrapped to make way for the stadium?

[warreng88]

The article suggest we use MAP III money to build the stadium for the Raiders.......
...
....
.....
......
Now that I have stopped laughing, which MAPS III projects get scrapped to make way for the stadium?

I think you misunderstood:

"Continuing the MAPS 3 tax for another three years would create the necessary revenue for an Oakland Raiders stadium plan."

[SoonerDave]

Surprisingly, Oklahoma City was considered for expansion back in the 1969-76 era when there was talk of building a 100,000-seat stadium at Fair Park. Insurance executive E.L. "Jim" Roederer, a candidate for mayor was pushing this as a part of his platform. When Roederer was defeated so went the plans for the State Fair financed stadium. OKC was definitely on the NFL's radar.

An abortive version of that stadium eventually received lukewarm support from then-governor Henry Bellmon such that it went on a statewide ballot, but by then had been dissected and chopped down to a "20,000-seat multipurpose arena" question that was quite thoroughly crushed.

[Just the facts]

I think you misunderstood:

"Continuing the MAPS 3 tax for another three years would create the necessary revenue for an Oakland Raiders stadium plan."

Oops - I stand corrected. Thanks. So does this mean the Stadium would be built last or wiggle its way up to the front?

[warreng88]

Oops - I stand corrected. Thanks. So does this mean the Stadium would be built last or wiggle its way up to the front?

Again, this is a pie in the sky dream, but I would guess it would be at the end because all of the other projects would have been started by then. Although, a new football stadium would bring in a lot more revenue but I wouldn't think the city council would ok an extension for an NFL stadium to be built even with the broad meaning of "capital improvements." I would guess there would be a new vote for the stadium (much like the arena improvements plan vote) and it would go on from there. So, even if the vote was passed and the tax was collecting, we wouldn't get any money from it until January of 2018. So, the stadium probably wouldn't even start construction until almost 2020.