Panasonic Battery Plant

[TU 'cane]

I've read fun posts before, that one didn't seem to come from a place of fun.

+!

Not as funny when it's based in so much truth, is it? I quoted several posts some pages back that undeniably prove the point I'm making here, please go find it for context.

And please, I beg for your forgiveness for breaking your fun-o-meters this morning.

[dcsooner]

n case both of you haven't noticed the popular opinion(s) going on here, we aren't allowed to discuss these other possible reasons. We're only allowed to blame current state leadership, rural rednecks, etc.

I jest, but I hope people see the point that conversations like these become a joke when there's some scapegoat to pin things on instead of logical facts like this. Just re-read the last several pages.

Of course, some people will then turn this part of the conversation into "Well, why isn't Stitt encouraging new warehouse construction around Pryor or OKC?!"

What I think is not "funny" is so many peoples unwillingness to see the obvious damage the last two Governors have done to the reputation and credibility of Oklahoma. Goverors' Fallin and Stitt both failed to deliver Statewide prosperity. Facts are that Gov. Stitts adminstration attempts to run a "Trumpian" style, heavy handed, obedience type of governance. Truth is corruption has been uncovered in a variety of agencies. His piggyback policies (following mostly Texas) have made the State a laughing stock. Look at Twitter posts that show Oklahomas ranking in a number of economic and Q of L areas. There is nothing remotely "funny" about the damage being done to the State I love.

[baralheia]

n case both of you haven't noticed the popular opinion(s) going on here, we aren't allowed to discuss these other possible reasons. We're only allowed to blame current state leadership, rural rednecks, etc.

I jest, but I hope people see the point that conversations like these become a joke when there's some scapegoat to pin things on instead of logical facts like this. Just re-read the last several pages.

Of course, some people will then turn this part of the conversation into "Well, why isn't Stitt encouraging new warehouse construction around Pryor or OKC?!"

What I think is not "funny" is so many peoples unwillingness to see the obvious damage the last two Governors have done to the reputation and credibility of Oklahoma. Goverors' Fallin and Stitt both failed to deliver Statewide prosperity. Facts are that Gov. Stitts adminstration attempts to run a "Trumpian" style, heavy handed, obedience type of governance. Truth is corruption has been uncovered in a variety of agencies. His piggyback policies (following mostly Texas) have made the State a laughing stock. Look at Twitter posts that show Oklahomas ranking in a number of economic and Q of L areas. There is nothing remotely "funny" about the damage being done to the State I love.

I agree. I don't think the Governor's office is the only reason that we lost the Panasonic deal, but I absolutely believe it's a contributing factor.

[catch22]

I think the frustration lies in the messaging from the governor’s office. A bunch of propaganda at being the leader, or a top ten state in every category. Super pro business. Super this. Super that. Freedom. America. Business. More freedom. Companies will be flocking here.

And not a damn thing has come from it, in fact we are ranked bottom of the barrel in many categories. The state’s actions cannot back up what the governor is selling.

[chssooner]

I think the frustration lies in the messaging from the governor’s office. A bunch of propaganda at being the leader, or a top ten state in every category. Super pro business. Super this. Super that. Freedom. America. Business. More freedom. Companies will be flocking here.

And not a damn thing has come from it, in fact we are ranked bottom of the barrel in many categories. The state’s actions cannot back up what the governor is selling.

And he will be re-elected in a LANDSLIDE!

[Laramie]

And he will be re-elected in a LANDSLIDE!

That should concern us all.

Elect Joy Hofmeister, she's conservative. She will do a better job IMO than Kevin Sttit, who hasn't delivered on any of his promises--other than dig Oklahoma into a deeper hole.

[PhiAlpha]

I agree. I don't think the Governor's office is the only reason that we lost the Panasonic deal, but I absolutely believe it's a contributing factor.

It might have been a slight contributor but had little to nothing to do with the final decision (other than not matching Kansas’s incentive deal).

[shavethewhales]

I think the frustration lies in the messaging from the governor’s office. A bunch of propaganda at being the leader, or a top ten state in every category. Super pro business. Super this. Super that. Freedom. America. Business. More freedom. Companies will be flocking here.

And not a damn thing has come from it, in fact we are ranked bottom of the barrel in many categories. The state’s actions cannot back up what the governor is selling.

Exactly. The Governor deserves to take flak from getting the state excited for these big opportunities only to consistently sh*t the bed when it comes to execution. The governor should have made sure we could have countered Kansas' deal more effectively if he was going to weigh in and promote this opportunity. It's almost like he just wanted to create the illusion of "doing something" and supporting business growth in the state but didn't care if we actually won.

Not only are missing every big opportunity that presents itself but we are also slipping on many other metrics, making us an even worse contestant. There's really no hope in getting our hopes up for anything else at this point until there are major changes in OK's government, which we all know won't happen this decade.

[Scott5114]

The thing is, how many potential deals is Oklahoma rejected for before they even get to the stage of reaching out to the state government? If the decision to disqualify Oklahoma happens in the boardroom when they're brainstorming the initial list of candidates they want to look into, we'd have no way of knowing that discussion even took place. And that would be the stage at which the political climate and cultural norms get factored in. It's not as if it's something they would only find out about once they started negotiating a deal with the state.

Suppose the CEO of a company building a new plant was someone to whom abortion access was really important. They'd start the process by pulling up a map of the legal status of abortion in each state. And then cross off all the states without abortion access as candidates. There would be no point in that company contacting Oklahoma to begin with; the CEO would never select Oklahoma as the final candidate, so it'd be a waste of both the company and the state's time.

[chssooner]

The thing is, how many potential deals is Oklahoma rejected for before they even get to the stage of reaching out to the state government? If the decision to disqualify Oklahoma happens in the boardroom when they're brainstorming the initial list of candidates they want to look into, we'd have no way of knowing that discussion even took place. And that would be the stage at which the political climate and cultural norms get factored in. It's not as if it's something they would only find out about once they started negotiating a deal with the state.

Suppose the CEO of a company building a new plant was someone to whom abortion access was really important. They'd start the process by pulling up a map of the legal status of abortion in each state. And then cross off all the states without abortion access as candidates. There would be no point in that company contacting Oklahoma to begin with; the CEO would never select Oklahoma as the final candidate, so it'd be a waste of both the company and the state's time.

Those same CEOs don't far whey Texas comes in and offers tons of money. Their morals go away then. So let's not think they aren't just altruistic.

[Scott5114]

Those same CEOs don't far whey Texas comes in and offers tons of money. Their morals go away then. So let's not think they aren't just altruistic.

We have no way of knowing if Texas is losing out on investment opportunities as well. We only see the deals that go through, or at least get close.

Texas is also quite a bit more ideologically diverse at the city/county level than Oklahoma is, so that can make a difference. Note that many of the companies moving into Texas choose to move into Austin specifically, which is culturally dissimilar from the rest of the state.

[PhiAlpha]

We have no way of knowing if Texas is losing out on investment opportunities as well. We only see the deals that go through, or at least get close.

Texas is also quite a bit more ideologically diverse at the city/county level than Oklahoma is, so that can make a difference. Note that many of the companies moving into Texas choose to move into Austin specifically, which is culturally dissimilar from the rest of the state.

Dallas/Fort Worth gets as much or more than Austin does.

[BG918]

We have no way of knowing if Texas is losing out on investment opportunities as well. We only see the deals that go through, or at least get close.

Texas is also quite a bit more ideologically diverse at the city/county level than Oklahoma is, so that can make a difference. Note that many of the companies moving into Texas choose to move into Austin specifically, which is culturally dissimilar from the rest of the state.

Maybe in the big cities but small town Texas and small town Oklahoma are nearly identical

[Scott5114]

Maybe in the big cities but small town Texas and small town Oklahoma are nearly identical

That's exactly my point. The big cities in Texas are big enough that you can ignore, to some extent, the small town parts of Texas.

In Oklahoma, the rural areas are comparatively more powerful, politically and culturally speaking.

[HFAA Alum]

Help me out here, would ya? I'm confused, are you angry OK didn't land the Panasonic plant? Are you satisfied "Tulsa" didn't get it to spite Stitt and Tulsa? I put Tulsa in quotes because Pryor is about 40-45 mins. East of Tulsa and not even included in the metro.
Has Stitt literally shoved every "lucrative" business opportunity out of the state? Like, he's pushing them away the best he can instead of trying to draw them here? Can you please provide proof of your claim(s)?

The Tulsa bashing that goes on in this board is something that I've been watching since taking a break from here and it's only gotten worse since we have a governor from Tulsa (God forbid it!). Tulsa, for the benefit of all of the posters on here who've partaken in this silly charade, has a metro over 1,000,000 and is OK's second largest city. It needs things just as much as OKC does. So, are you suggesting OKC gets everything and every other city be damned? What all has Stitt "given" Tulsa vs. OKC?

Please, help me out here.

P.S. as far as the Thunder's new arena goes, this is a Tulsa specific sub-forum with a thread about the Panasonic plant.
But since you started it, here it goes: You're fine with state tax dollars going to the Thunder when OKC should be first and foremost trying to figure it out?
What of the people in Durant who are Mavericks fans? What of the folks in Guymon or Boise City who may be Nuggets fans? And what of the people who don't care about the NBA?

Had a busy week so I couldn't immediately respond to you. So allow me to expound on my rant a little further.

I am upset that the proposition did not go through, something like this would've benefitted the state by a mile. But the drive to press inquiring businesses to cities that have inadequate infrastructure (namely air traffic accommodations) to handle the demand that's being requested is not only foolish, but also selfish. It speaks of the ego that Stitt himself has in prefacing all of these deals to be located in Tulsa like a "take it or leave it" kind of negotiation. It doesn't make any sense to continue to press these ventures towards a direction the businesses and corporations don't want to go. And all it does is incentivize these corporations to look elsewhere. I credit Laura Kelly for being able to help her state land such a profitable venture that will add jobs to the Kansas City metropolitan area, even if it especially benefits Missouri just as much. The point of the matter is that the business will be in Kansas because Panasonic pushed for the most lucrative city for the deal and the governor gave them favorable terms. If Panasonic landed in OKC, they would see both the land advantage and the closer connectivity to the towns in Texas, all while being hubbed near an international airport, military airbase, and an Amazon warehouse facility. In other words, the commercial implications would be virtually endless. Now to my next point.

I am not digging on Tulsa in any way, not the slightest. I actually root for the laundry list of improvements the city is seeking to implement. I love the park that's been put there, how they built a land bridge over the highway just to better connect the park instead of there being this massive concrete divide like there is in Scissortail Park (It's a nice park, but I just don't like the concrete slicing between the two halves, that and some random asshat not wanting to sell land to the park and allowing that square to be a blight in what would be an otherwise beautiful southern half). If anything, some of the density and architecture that goes on in Tulsa is something I'd wish OKC would take more of a risk with instead of depending solely on "in-house" contractors. It's always a grand vision that gets stepped down for price tag, then stepped down even further for the cheapest dollar on development, and then we end up with some mostly disappointing results (like the Oklahoma Boulevard, the lid that should've led to the innovation district, the architecture of the main building of the innovation district, the OU medical tower that had three of its top floors lopped off just before the start of the pandemic, the Paycom complex that looks more and more like a cheap Minecraft build, and OG&E tower complex that's now just a surface lot soccer field, just to name a few examples). There's many disappointments to be had, but some developments there do have me optimistic for the future. The same goes here.

I visited Tulsa and used to live in OKC, at one point I was jealous of how dense Tulsa was in contrast to OKC at the time (2010). I root and cheer for both of these cities to continue pursuing growth and improvement, because God knows the place I live in now does not believe in growth other than relocating a regional airport and building a toll bridge, all while allowing businesses, corporations, and tourist attractions to seat themselves the next county over across the bay. What these two cities have experienced in growth over the past three years, my current city can't even achieve in a decade thanks to cronyism, red-lining, and good-old-boys networking. Trust me when I say it, OKLAHOMA HAS IT GOOD RIGHT NOW.

So am I upset with Stitt for pushing Tulsa, yes but not out of bias. His mentality and delusion of altruism is nothing more than a reflection of the same corruption and muck I see here in the state of Alabama, where there's no lottery, the cities up north have more priority, and a whole port city can go neglected for two decades just because of a mayor's political affiliation and skin color (yeah, you think the congress over in DC is mad with the games, I'll tell you this city had the blueprint for it for over twenty years). Trust me when I say that coming to the forums of these two cities give me hope and perspective in contrast to the mundane doldrums I'm currently planted in, the city that started Mardi Gras itself but can't even compete with New Orleans for tourism. Sad.

So yeah, trust that I'm not bashing Tulsa. Wanna see me bash a city, I'll willingly bash Mobile for free.

[progressiveboy]

Oklahoma is truly at a crossroads for their future. The mindset boggles me with the way the State Government leads Oklahoma, and how the residents of Oklahoma continue to put up with this archaic, ignorant path. Does Oklahoma have a long term future and have a long term sustainability? Gov Stitt will win election by a landslide and will continue to keep Oklahoma on a stagnant economic path. Wake up residents of Oklahoma! You have the choice to live in mediocrity or live up to your potential that you can improve socially, economically and enjoy a decent quality of life!

[Bunty]

I think the frustration lies in the messaging from the governor’s office. A bunch of propaganda at being the leader, or a top ten state in every category. Super pro business. Super this. Super that. Freedom. America. Business. More freedom. Companies will be flocking here.

And not a damn thing has come from it, in fact we are ranked bottom of the barrel in many categories. The state’s actions cannot back up what the governor is selling.

At least Oklahoma ranks number 5 for bridges.

[Bunty]

And he will be re-elected in a LANDSLIDE!

Perish the thought! I think Hofmeister has a good chance of getting many of the female votes, especially if she makes clear that she doesn't stand with Stitt for extreme abortion bans. Our neighbor to the north, Kansas, sure made clear Tues. night in a surprising blowout vote that it can't get behind the Republicans to support extreme abortion bans. Oklahomans will quite likely have to petition for a vote to put the right to abortion in the state constitution, while making the state more attractive to business and industry. I trust that Oklahomans can reject extremism as good as Kansas when allowed to vote on it. If I'm right, Stitt will lose.

I think the tribes will do what they can to try to get rid of Stitt.

[BG918]

If rec marijuana makes it on ballot this November I think that favors Hofmeister

[Bunty]

If rec marijuana makes it on ballot this November I think that favors Hofmeister

Yeah, but I don't think there is as much passion to legalize rec marijuana as there was for medical marijuana. If Hofmeister tells Republicans that she will consider going back to being a Republican if she wins and runs for reelection that could help her.

[PhiAlpha]

I think we could do better than Stitt, but Hofmeister just hasn’t ever really done anything for me. I don’t think Stitt is holding us back in such a way on the business development (or whatever you want to call it) front that Hofmeister is going to be some savior. The only thing that would’ve saved this deal would’ve been matching Kansas’s incentive package which, correct me if I’m wrong, but was decided on by the state legislature and approved by Stitt…I don’t think he put the dollar figure on it. Id be interested in seeing something quantifiable that shows Stitt is the reason we’re missing out on deals like this because so far it just seems like a bunch of people that don’t like him or his politics making him the scape goat. Hard to believe the most inspiring challenger to Stitt this fall is Joy Hofmeister…pretty weak.

I know everyone wants to be super critical on this and I think the self examination is a good thing but don’t over think it… they looked at two very similar options and took the one that offered several hundred million dollars more in incentives. We could have the perfect governor and it wouldn’t have changed that.

[Bunty]

I think we could do better than Stitt, but Hofmeister just hasn’t ever really done anything for me. I don’t think Stitt is holding us back in such a way on the business development (or whatever you want to call it) front that Hofmeister is going to be some savior. The only thing that would’ve saved this deal would’ve been matching Kansas’s incentive package which, correct me if I’m wrong, but was decided on by the state legislature and approved by Stitt…I don’t think he put the dollar figure on it. Id be interested in seeing something quantifiable that shows Stitt is the reason we’re missing out on deals like this because so far it just seems like a bunch of people that don’t like him or his politics making him the scape goat. Hard to believe the most inspiring challenger to Stitt this fall is Joy Hofmeister…pretty weak.

I know everyone wants to be super critical on this and I think the self examination is a good thing but don’t over think it… they looked at two very similar options and took the one that offered several hundred million dollars more in incentives. We could have the perfect governor and it wouldn’t have changed that.

Oklahoma could have equaled or bettered Kansas on the Panasonic deal since Stitt said Oklahoma now has $2.8 billion saved up. With interest rates still quite low, I don't see much sense in letting it accumulate. Next year, at least $1 billion should be taken from it to help public schools. If voters don't want private or religious schools included, they will have to vote for candidates that don't.

Every state incentive plan for a new company should come with a claw back provision to ensure taxpayers don't get fleeced.

[Pete]

Interesting perspective from a Kansas publication:

https://kansasreflector.com/2022/07/...cturing-plant/

The back story of the largest private-sector development in state history included an auspicious dinner conversation in Washington, D.C., clandestine trips to Nevada and Japan, rare political bipartisanship in Topeka and a clumsy pitch by main rival Oklahoma. Behind-the-scenes work on the deal included rejection by Panasonic of Kansas’ first incentive offer and the company’s decision to embrace a substantially strengthened bid.

[chssooner]

Interesting perspective from a Kansas publication:

https://kansasreflector.com/2022/07/...cturing-plant/

It was clumsy, but theirs isn't very thoughtful. If Panasonic only hires half of what they say, they are still entitled to the whole incentive package. Oklahoma's was job-based, unlike Kansas.

[BG918]

Interesting perspective from a Kansas publication:

https://kansasreflector.com/2022/07/...cturing-plant/

This was interesting, and likely led to Kansas going all-out to secure this. What's Oklahoma's record? Google in Pryor, Boeing in OKC, ???

Since 2017, Kansas had a dismal 0 for 11 record in attempts to land megaprojects, ranging from aviation to food manufacturing.

Project Ocean surfaced on the state Department of Commerce’s radar in 2021. It was of special significance to Kansas because Panasonic was examining the potential of Midwest sites, including the Sunflower property in De Soto.