Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[Rover]

If anything I think Tulsa would be more worthy of an NHL team or a step up to AHL. They support The Oilers way better than OKC did with the Barons.

Support of a minor league team of anything isn't necessarily a predictor of major league success.

[irishtate]

i would love this. i just don't think it's a reality.... sadly enough.

I'll agree as well. And when nimble ideas like this aren't even considered, I sure wish there were resonable answers from someone in planning/development, etc. I just mean so I could personally grasp the why's and why not's.
If "we" can engineer Palm Jumeirah, surely we can build an NBA arena next to an old one, while still using the old one concurrently

[bison34]

I'll agree as well. And when nimble ideas like this aren't even considered, I sure wish there were resonable answers from someone in planning/development, etc. I just mean so I could personally grasp the why's and why not's.
If "we" can engineer Palm Jumeirah, surely we can build an NBA arena next to an old one, while still using the old one concurrently

But OKC doesn't need 2 full-size arenas right next to each other. Not at all. Especially in 2 prime lots. If Detroit, Dallas, New Orleans, Denver, Charlotte, Boston, etc. don't need 2 full-size arenas, OKC definitely doesn't.

Of course it can be done.

Also, you are responding like OKC can't build one and use the other at the same time. They 100% will do that. But I think you meant using both at the same time, and there is no reason to. Not that they can't, but the old arena will be a money pit.

[Jersey Boss]

But OKC doesn't need 2 full-size arenas right next to each other. Not at all. Especially in 2 prime lots. If Detroit, Dallas, New Orleans, Denver, Charlotte, Boston, etc. don't need 2 full-size arenas, OKC definitely doesn't.

Of course it can be done.

Also, you are responding like OKC can't build one and use the other at the same time. They 100% will do that. But I think you meant using both at the same time, and there is no reason to. Not that they can't, but the old arena will be a money pit.

Great points. That is why OKC needs to make the new arena ice hockey capable.
In 10 years the population and the NHL would be a great fit.
Why should OKC metro be left in the dark due to not looking ahead.
The City not the Thunder own the arena

[Jersey Boss]

Support of a minor league team of anything isn't necessarily a predictor of major league success.

I made that point several posts ago comparing the Calvary to the Hornets/Thunder

[PhiAlpha]

I struggle to understand what OKCTalk's fascination is with hockey. It seems like every other month someone is suggesting we "bring hockey back" or use the Paycom for hockey or starts a new thread re bringing the NHL/Coyotes to town. I know I've seen someone in the thread on the new arena suggest that we are making a misstep in not making building it to be NHL compatible.

Help me understand. Are many in town in love with hockey or is it a select few who are just vocal on this board? Is there actually a large contingency of hockey fans in OKC as some vestige of when we briefly had the Barons? Is it because it's a 4th (5th?) tier sport and would therefore be sustainable in our metro? Is it just one poster named Laramie running 3-6 accounts to frequently re-introduce hockey into threads about development?

I am truly uneducated on how/why hockey would be a good fit for OKC and why it gets brought up so much. It doesn't seem to have a large market share of sports across the US, generally speaking. It doesn't seem to naturally belong in Oklahoma where its hardly played at any level.

I can see why people like hockey given that we built Paycom to lure an NHL team (and were very close to getting one) but I struggle to understand the unrealistic obsession with doing anything other than demolishing the Paycom Center. The idea of keeping it around for some minimal use instead of just using the brand new building across the street that is only pre booked for 43 nights per year is just so unlikely that its not even worth discussing.

[bison34]

Great points. That is why OKC needs to make the new arena ice hockey capable.
In 10 years the population and the NHL would be a great fit.
Why should OKC metro be left in the dark due to not looking ahead.
The City not the Thunder own the arena

I mean, the NHL isn't happening here. If Houston csnt get a team, why would OKC?

I am sure the arena will be able to have an ice rink, though.

[PhiAlpha]

If anything I think Tulsa would be more worthy of an NHL team or a step up to AHL. They support The Oilers way better than OKC did with the Barons.

I do think Tulsa would be a better fit for an NHL team than OKC. Not because of how they support the Oilers or how we didn't support the Barons, but because it's a growing metro of 1 million people with no professional franchises that generally loves athletics and heavily supports community events enmasse. It also has a bunch of decent sized companies that currently aren't tied up in other professional sports sponsorships. It's essentially the same reason everyone thought the NBA could work here when we got our trial run with the hornets.

I don't think OKC is ready for a professional sports franchise with a season that overlaps with the NBA. Corporate sponsorships alone would be an issue but between NBA and College football fans/sponsors are already spread thin. Just not worth it at this stage of the game.

[PhiAlpha]

OKC would support an NHL team as long as they were good. As soon as they hit tough times it would go tits up. We are lucky the Thunder rebuilt so well and the people approved the arena or we would not have an NBA team come 2030. The attendance stats and listening to the Boomers and casual fans in the bar pretty much confirm the fair weather fan status of the majority of Oklahomans. For the most part the people that go to the games are really the only ones I trust to have a relatively informed opinion on the team. The average Oklahoman does not know anything about basketball.

Yeah I agree to a point but I think the massive drop in support had a lot to do with the rebuild coinciding with Covid and the team essentially telling season ticket holders to go F themselves in 2021. Probably was a merciful move on their part but hitting the reset button on season ticket holders, some of whom had tickets for the entire history of the franchise, while tanking probably wasn't the best move if they cared about keeping ticket sales up. I posted some research I did on it in another thread but all of the teams that eliminated fans for an entire season or more have had more difficulty building back fans support than franchises that took a more relaxed approach. I'm sure a bunch of our season ticket holders watched games from home and thought "I guess I don't really need to renew those for next season, I'll just pick back up when we're good again." Fortunately, as you mentioned, that only took two seasons but support would've come back a lot quicker if they hadn't completely blown it up.

[PhiAlpha]

I'll agree as well. And when nimble ideas like this aren't even considered, I sure wish there were resonable answers from someone in planning/development, etc. I just mean so I could personally grasp the why's and why not's.
If "we" can engineer Palm Jumeirah, surely we can build an NBA arena next to an old one, while still using the old one concurrently

Why not?

1. Because we'll have a $1 Billion arena across the street that everyone would prefer to use over the 30 year old one across the street.
2. Maintenance costs on a building that gets little to no use.
3. Property value in the middle of downtown will make it more valuable as an empty lot.

[Snowman]

But OKC doesn't need 2 full-size arenas right next to each other. Not at all. Especially in 2 prime lots. If Detroit, Dallas, New Orleans, Denver, Charlotte, Boston, etc. don't need 2 full-size arenas, OKC definitely doesn't.

Of course it can be done.

Also, you are responding like OKC can't build one and use the other at the same time. They 100% will do that. But I think you meant using both at the same time, and there is no reason to. Not that they can't, but the old arena will be a money pit.

It is not like we are intentionally building a pair at the same time intended to run for the entirety of their lives, the question is if their is there enough advantages to keeping a building open that still can have decades of usable life, while their is still dozens of surface parking blocks and much less developed properties within few blocks.

[caaokc]

I mean, the NHL isn't happening here. If Houston csnt get a team, why would OKC?

I am sure the arena will be able to have an ice rink, though.

I think it can have a rink but it might be a weird layout (Google Delta Center, Bankers Life Fieldhouse hockey layouts) since they plan on designing the seating bowl specifically for basketball.

[bison34]

I think it can have a rink but it might be a weird layout (Google Delta Center, Bankers Life Fieldhouse hockey layouts) since they plan on designing the seating bowl specifically for basketball.

Well, if they don't design it around our current NBA team, it would be a major disservice. I think it's fine if it has a weird layout for hockey. Just my opinion, but no sense designing an arena with an NBA tenant with a hockey-based layout.

[taha]

i would rather have 2 arenas than 1 brand new arena/development facing an empty lot. an empty lot that would probably sit empty for years. see: all the empty lots around cool developments around the city lol. unless of course there is already a master plan ready to go.

[okcrun]

I think it can have a rink but it might be a weird layout (Google Delta Center, Bankers Life Fieldhouse hockey layouts) since they plan on designing the seating bowl specifically for basketball.

If you are building a brand new arena and are going to plan on making it possible to accommodate a hockey team at some point in the future you really should design it around both. It's not the weird layouts in both of those arenas that's the issue, it's that the layout could mean a lot fewer seats (on top of the already reduced capacity due to rink/court sizes) which could be the difference in getting a team or not especially for a market our size. Those arenas are 25 and 33 years old, surely the design around accommodating both has progressed since then.

[bamarsha]

Once we (OKC) get the new arena built, wouldn't be so quick to begin talks about demolition. The current Paycom Center could become home for ECHL 'AA' Hockey with accommodations for 15,152 minimum permanent seats. Also
allow Oklahoma City to bid on NCAA hockey events and gymnastics.

It could also be used for a number of overflow events planned in conjunction with the convention center and new arena. The more events we schedule using the flexibility of two arenas, the more hotel occupancy nights will be needed which equates into more hotels or expansion of existing hotels. Imagine the Omni expanding with a 2nd (400 - 600 room) hotel wing or adding nine or 17 stories to the existing 17 stories making it a 25 story/36 story - 325 - 448 foot tall (1,004 - 1,208 room) luxury hotel.

Remember the Cox and Chesapeake being used for the men's and women's bball tourney at the same time... that was an awesome arrangement.

[April in the Plaza]

I struggle to understand what OKCTalk's fascination is with hockey. It seems like every other month someone is suggesting we "bring hockey back" or use the Paycom for hockey or starts a new thread re bringing the NHL/Coyotes to town. I know I've seen someone in the thread on the new arena suggest that we are making a misstep in not making building it to be NHL compatible.

Help me understand. Are many in town in love with hockey or is it a select few who are just vocal on this board? Is there actually a large contingency of hockey fans in OKC as some vestige of when we briefly had the Barons? Is it because it's a 4th (5th?) tier sport and would therefore be sustainable in our metro? Is it just one poster named Laramie running 3-6 accounts to frequently re-introduce hockey into threads about development?

I am truly uneducated on how/why hockey would be a good fit for OKC and why it gets brought up so much. It doesn't seem to have a large market share of sports across the US, generally speaking. It doesn't seem to naturally belong in Oklahoma where its hardly played at any level.

the NHL is definitely unrealistic at this point in the credit cycle, but I can see how a sizable contingent of OKC Taxpayers would want to ensure that a $1.5 Billion publicly financed arena is utilized to the maximum extent possible. hopefully we can get OU and OSU to play a few games in there as well.

as for what OKC could realistically support, I can see MLS working within the next 7 to 10 years although I don't think the Funks are the group that will get it done.

[Jeepnokc]

I struggle to understand what OKCTalk's fascination is with hockey. It seems like every other month someone is suggesting we "bring hockey back" or use the Paycom for hockey or starts a new thread re bringing the NHL/Coyotes to town. I know I've seen someone in the thread on the new arena suggest that we are making a misstep in not making building it to be NHL compatible.

Help me understand. Are many in town in love with hockey or is it a select few who are just vocal on this board? Is there actually a large contingency of hockey fans in OKC as some vestige of when we briefly had the Barons? Is it because it's a 4th (5th?) tier sport and would therefore be sustainable in our metro? Is it just one poster named Laramie running 3-6 accounts to frequently re-introduce hockey into threads about development?

I am truly uneducated on how/why hockey would be a good fit for OKC and why it gets brought up so much. It doesn't seem to have a large market share of sports across the US, generally speaking. It doesn't seem to naturally belong in Oklahoma where its hardly played at any level.

OKC actually has a pretty active youth hockey program with house leagues and travel teams. My son played on a travelling team where they played Tulsa, Kansas City, Wichita, Springfield Missouri and Springfield Arkansas. UCO, OU have had club teams for awhile and OSU just started a club team. There are several adult leagues also. OKC has three rinks and they stay pretty booked up. OKC also has the Oklahoma Warriors which is part of the North American Hockey League which has 32 teams over 17 states.

https://nahl.com/teams/team-detail.cfm?id=715
https://nahl.com/the-nahl/about/

Doesn't mean OKC can support an NHL team but there is an active hockey presence in OKC.

[Thunderbolt]

Look at the Deer District in Milwaukee to accompany their new arena. This is exactly the model I would hope we see for the Paycom Center lot once the new arena is built.

https://deerdistrict.com/

[Oski]

They should consider placing the new arena and soccer stadium close together within the same complex, incorporating hotels, apartments, retail spaces, and mixed-use developments around them. This model mirrors the ballpark project recently proposed in Kansas City.

[Bowser214]

This would be excellent for OKC! As long as they don't call it the Beer District.

[CaptDave]

They're already doing this as much as reasonably feasible given the street layout and BNSF viaduct in OKC. That rendering of the KCMO proposal doesn't really show I-70 running between the arena and baseball field - not unlike the BNSF viaduct. The other development you mention could replace Paycom and the parking lots to the west. The future NBA arena and MLS - capable stadium (finger crossed on this) would only be a few blocks apart with things like the Omni and Boardwalk (more crossed fingers) between them.

[Swake]

They're already doing this as much as reasonably feasible given the street layout and BNSF viaduct in OKC. That rendering of the KCMO proposal doesn't really show I-70 running between the arena and baseball field - not unlike the BNSF viaduct. The other development you mention could replace Paycom and the parking lots to the west. The future NBA arena and MLS - capable stadium (finger crossed on this) would only be a few blocks apart with things like the Omni and Boardwalk (more crossed fingers) between them.

The plan was/is to cap I-70 between the arena and ballpark.

[Laramie]

I do think Tulsa would be a better fit for an NHL team than OKC. Not because of how they support the Oilers or how we didn't support the Barons,but because it's a growing metro of 1 million people with no professional franchises that generally loves athletics and heavily supports community events enmasse. It also has a bunch of decent sized companies that currently aren't tied up in other professional sports sponsorships. It's essentially the same reason everyone thought the NBA could work here when we got our trial run with the hornets.

I don't think OKC is ready for a professional sports franchise with a season that overlaps with the NBA. Corporate sponsorships alone would be an issue but between NBA and College football fans/sponsors are already spread thin. Just not worth it at this stage of the game.

Agree, Tulsa would be a better fit for the NHL than OKC (B/C they have no major professional sports).

NHL expansion in 1996 OKC's MSA population stood between 1990 (971,042) and 2000 (1,095,421);
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Tulsa's MSA population is similar 2010 (937,478) and 2020 (1,015,331)

Tulsa MSA now (2023) boasts 1,044,757.

Then OKC Mayor Ron Norick & Clay Bennett were told by the NHL on Thursday to get a press conference ready for the following Monday to announce that OKC received an NHL expansion franchise. Sometime between that Friday and Saturday, Columbus, OH thru Nation-Wide Insurance sponsorship, Ohio's capital city secured that final franchise beating out Oklahoma City and Houston.

Columbus was a larger MSA population than OKC and better quality-or-life...

Remember, OKC had approved MAPS funding for an $89.2 million NHL arena that the NHL felt couldn't be built in 2002 for that price--NHL wanted bells and whistles. City leaders wanted to use the 14.000-seat Myriad's Great Arena as a temporary home until the new 18,000 seat DT arena could be built for NHL hockey.

Tulsa's BOK Center (arena) meets NHL specifications with 17,096 seats ready to welcome the NHL. Believe me, Tulsa would rally behind an NHL franchise; there's no doubt IMO that OKC and TUL markets could support the NBA and NHL respectively. Combined TV market households for OKC-TUL estimated around 1.35 million.

You have Tulsans who support the NBA Thunder; likewise, you would have the same support for NHL in Tulsa by Oklahoma City NHL fans.

.

[scottk]

BOK Center was built as a slightly nicer Ford Center/Paycom Center in 2008. I would find it hard for the NHL to move to Tulsa to what would be a 20 year old fairly basic arena, when OKC is going to have a brand new billion dollar arena down the turnpike.