Convention Center

[bchris02]

Use the Cox site; you don't have to have a totally new convention center. Just gut the arena, then the convention center along with the conference hotel could be built in phases.

This sounds great in theory but from what I understand, the arena structurally supports the rest of the Cox Center, making it impossible to retrofit.

[Pete]

Pete can you remind me what the planned development on that map just west of the city park is? Its the blue box just north of the maintenance facility.

There is nothing specific planned there.

Investors have been buying up property in that area (about 3 or 4 of them) and the City also owns some as well.

[hfry]

That's what I thought, it just seemed interesting the labeled it like that like there was something specifically in action that they know of but i'm sure its more just the potential and likelihood of something as soon as the park is in place.

[Motley]

I say bite the bullet and buy the Co-Op site for the convention center and sell 1/2 the site for private development. It would be prime location, plus the Bricktown towers would be a reality bringing in more revenue, and the U-Haul building would likely be restored. The canal could be linked to the river and the overall site become a master urban development. It is really a cornerstone to the whole of downtown and NO smell!

[Laramie]

This sounds great in theory but from what I understand, the arena structurally supports the rest of the Cox Center, making it impossible to retrofit.

There was talk (post Chesapeake Arena) to downsize the Myriad arena--make the top or bottom portion 7,000 seats and add exhibition space above or below that structure.

[bchris02]

I say bite the bullet and buy the Co-Op site for the convention center and sell 1/2 the site for private development. It would be prime location, plus the Bricktown towers would be a reality bringing in more revenue, and the U-Haul building would likely be restored. The canal could be linked to the river and the overall site become a master urban development. It is really a cornerstone to the whole of downtown and NO smell!

This would be a dream come true. It would resolve so many issues with downtown OKC all in one swoop. Unfortunately such a solution is likely too good to be possible.

[Motley]

I know, but I like to dream. Would be willing to name it after a billionaire benefactor, instead of the Oklahoma Convention Center.

[Laramie]

I know, but I like to dream. Would be willing to name it after a billionaire benefactor, instead of the Oklahoma Convention Center.

Naming rights?

Right on! How about the Boone Pickens, Donald W. Reynolds, Carl Icahn or the George Kaiser Convention Center?.

[mkjeeves]

If we have to whore out all our public buildings with advertising, I'd vote for the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill Convention Center in perpetuity for a discount on their property as the location.

[Motley]

Better a benefactor or corporate sponsor than a politician. The Super-Sonic Convention Center and Drive-thru.

[HangryHippo]

I say bite the bullet and buy the Co-Op site for the convention center and sell 1/2 the site for private development. It would be prime location, plus the Bricktown towers would be a reality bringing in more revenue, and the U-Haul building would likely be restored. The canal could be linked to the river and the overall site become a master urban development. It is really a cornerstone to the whole of downtown and NO smell!

I really like this idea. Get the city to pony up for the whole site and then parcel it out to recoup costs.

[Just the facts]

You all do realize the Cox Businesses Services Convention Center is named that because the city sold the naming rights?

[Motley]

So there is precedence. I tend to still think of it as the Myriad, the incomparable Myriad, as they used to say. Naming rights wouldn't bring enough money. I still think a benefactor that wants a prominent legacy would be the only way to bring significant cash. Isn't the new Tulsa "core to shore" park funded by a benefactor?

[bchris02]

Hopefully they can come up with something more creative than "Oklahoma Convention Center." If they don't want to sell naming rights for it, at least something akin to "the Myriad" would be better than having yet another downtown focal point named "Oklahoma" or "Oklahoma City" this or that.

[Stickman]

Maybe the City will put 10 million down and give REHCO the Cox Center.
As far as the Myriad be add on, forget it. The original plans called for extra piers, and were paid btw, but seemed to come up missing when they looked at it a couple years ago. STRANGE
must of been a good ole boy deal back then.

[Teo9969]

Honestly, if REHCO is not taking the Cox site (assuming it's the full 4 blocks) + cash, they're being foolish: It's more land than they currently have, and with no headache of trying to close down streets. Obviously demolition is a big question/headache for the Cox site, whether it is sold or whether it is kept by the city…I'm not sure how much it will cost, but it can't be cheap (I'm guessing north of $25M?). Not sure if the underground parking could be salvaged after demolition, but that would be an added bonus if so.

Really really really hoping cooler heads prevail in this deal and that we choose anything but the Cox site. I'd absolutely, unequivocally support scrapping the project altogether before you could ever convince me putting a paltry $300M investment on the most important real estate in the state of Oklahoma is anything other than the most absurd and irresponsible use of our cities resources in the history of OKC. Anything less than $1,500,000,000 of investment on that property is, as far as I'm concerned, absolutely unacceptable.

[Pete]

Honestly, if REHCO is not taking the Cox site (assuming it's the full 4 blocks) + cash, they're being foolish: It's more land than they currently have, and with no headache of trying to close down streets.

To be clear, I don't know the details of the deal. But keep in mind they have a nearly identical property between two massive parks and that is already fully ready for development.

In any scenario, the Cox Center would not be ready for redevelopment for a few years and then there are a ton of variables, such as demolition, what to do about the parking, etc.

I'm sure it's all complex and you certainly can't blame anyone who had the foresight to buy valuable property -- and who have been held up for quite a while by the City -- for expecting the City to make them a good deal in exchange for the land they were in the process of developing.

[Just the facts]

Yeah - the Cox site swap makes no sense for REHCO. They couldn't use that site for another 5 to 8 years.

[Teo9969]

To be honest, I'm at least a little bit afraid that REHCO is too small of a developer for any MBG or even Transit Hub fronting property. I'd LOVE for them to be able to put out a $1B project over a 5 to 10 year period, but I feel like they're more in the ballpark of a $250M max budget for the foreseeable future, especially with what they have going on in Film Row (and I imagine are tied up in Midtown Renaissance as well, though I'm not sure how closely connected those companies are).

My opinion of the level of investment we should see on all the different blocks:

Devon: $750M
Clayco: $550M
Cox MBG: $750M
REHCO MGB: $500M

Cox SFS: $750M
REHCO Boulevard: $200M
Chesapeake Arena: $100M

That would be a total of $3.6B. With everything that borders MBG, + the main connectivity triangle between SFS, MBG, MP3P (i.e. CHK Arena, Block to it's south that fronts the Boulevard/Park, etc.), that number really needs to edge $5B.

Look, I know that is a lot of money, I understand…but this is the heart of our city. If we're balking at $5B, we will never be the city that we all want to be.

I just don't see how you get there by putting a $700M convention center (at the very best) that has no real value to the everyday citizen/tourist on the plot of land that really deserves treatment north of $1.25B and in active use every single day by tourists, residents, employees, business owners, and passersby alike.

The city needs to realize they're playing small ball now. And for me, the most frustrating part is that Larry Nichols, who spearheaded the largest project in downtown history, is not advocating for a better effort. Maybe he's doing what he thinks is right. Maybe he wants Devon to be the centerpiece of downtown. Maybe he's scared that OKC is growing too fast. Maybe he's listening to those who run in the most elite circles of OKC…In reality, we don't know, and it's probably a mix of good and bad motives (like any human being). That being said, if Nichols is going to be a city leader we remember for decades/centuries, he needs to realize putting *this* convention center at the Cox site will disqualify him. Most importantly, it is a major major disservice to OKC...but more ironically, it is a major disservice to the three-quarter-billion-dollars beautiful corporate headquarters he just finished building.

[Hutch]

Would much rather see this very valuable and important property developed by private developers instead of yet another publicly owned super block.

You mean something like this...?

[Just the facts]

Nm

[Motley]

Both the San Antonio and Denver mayors took incredible heat for the investments they made for their cities. They were viewed as bankrupting the cities with their grandiose arenas and airports. However, by having someone with vision and making a rather large investment, seen as crazy by many, these cities are now major players. Other cities do it, so OKC has to risk a lot to be on par. San Diego is on the same ledge with the stadium. Do you spend $1.5B for a stadium or let it go to the bigger dude up the 5? Will it break San Diego not to have national football - no. Will it lower the city's status on the national stage - yes. After the stadium, we have to spend another $1B on the convention center or lose Comi-con to LA or Vegas. I hope the powers at OKC have the vision to take OKC to the next level, but it certainly won't be by lowering expectations on the Cox site or the new CC.

[Rover]

We need a new CC, for sure. But, we don't need to over-play our hand. No amount of pie in the sky dreaming to be huge will change the fundamentals. OKC is not, and will not be a major player in the large convention game. We need a modern, appropriately sized, well designed cc. That is all. We need to do that without destroying the urban fabric while increasing the amenities of the area. We don't need to make it bigger than planned now.

[Just the facts]

Agree 100% Rover. Just make a CC that will instill some civic pride, attract a few more conventions, enhance the experience for locals and visitors alike through better amenities, and contribute to the betterment of the public realm via established and well known urban design principles. That's it.

[Laramie]

Both the San Antonio and Denver mayors took incredible heat for the investments they made for their cities. They were viewed as bankrupting the cities with their grandiose arenas and airports. However, by having someone with vision and making a rather large investment, seen as crazy by many, these cities are now major players. Other cities do it, so OKC has to risk a lot to be on par. San Diego is on the same ledge with the stadium. Do you spend $1.5B for a stadium or let it go to the bigger dude up the 5? Will it break San Diego not to have national football - no. Will it lower the city's status on the national stage - yes. After the stadium, we have to spend another $1B on the convention center or lose Comi-con to LA or Vegas. I hope the powers at OKC have the vision to take OKC to the next level, but it certainly won't be by lowering expectations on the Cox site or the new CC.

Good analogy,

We have to realize that Oklahoma City will need to invest some of its money along with what is provided by the various MAPS program initiatives to get to the next level. The city doesn't need to put its bond rating or credit in jeopardy; however just enough to finish out the projects of which many are over projection.

Oklahoma City (Metro - 1,336,767 City - 610,613 )
Omaha . . . . . . . (Metro - 904,421 City - 434,353)

Omaha, which is on the same par as Oklahoma City has built an arena and a ballpark (long term for College World Series) which is as close to the major leagues as any city (outside major leagues) in its category. They did it without any MAPS style programs:


CenturyLink Center- $291 million - opened 2003 (Basketball - 18,320 , Ice Hockey - 17,100 , Swimming - 12,000) minimum seating capacity)

Chesapeake Energy Arena - $189 million - opened 2002 (Basketball - 18,203, Ice Hockey - 18,036
.



T.D. Ameritrade Park - Cost: $131 million - opened 2011 Baseball seating capacity 25,000

Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark - Cost: $34 million - opened 1998 Baseball seating capacity 13,066, (9,000 current)