2024 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[BG918]

Well then apparently OKC's seen as a highly expendable market. More so than other cities of their size, it seems, like Louisville or Omaha.

Lots of people still drive to DFW. Most other similar-sized cities don’t have one of the largest hub airports on the planet within a 3 hour drive

[Jake]

Lots of people still drive to DFW. Most other similar-sized cities don’t have one of the largest hub airports on the planet within a 3 hour drive

Was going to say this. Haven't done it in a while, but family and I have driven several times in the past to DFW for a flight and bypassed OKC entirely. That doesn't even include Love Field, which is also a busy airport.

Substantial difference between competing against Des Moines/Cincinnati and competing against Dallas.

[okcrun]

Well then apparently OKC's seen as a highly expendable market. More so than other cities of their size, it seems, like Louisville or Omaha.

That's not at all what they are saying. The low cost carriers change routes all the time, it's more obvious when you look across their entire network that this isn't anything unique. Not sure about Allegiant in OKC but a lot of the times they won't even have a dedicated gate which means they change schedules or remove service altogether at a moments notice. With that being said, they can also add it back relatively easily any time as well. This isn't the end of the world like you are making it out to be lol

[BG918]

Was going to say this. Haven't done it in a while, but family and I have driven several times in the past to DFW for a flight and bypassed OKC entirely. That doesn't even include Love Field, which is also a busy airport.

Substantial difference between competing against Des Moines/Cincinnati and competing against Dallas.

I’m flying to Mexico City in November. OKC-MEX on AA with a stop in DFW was over $600 vs $300 from DFW. That plus the connection being tight made us decide to make drive which from Norman is only 2.5 hours.

[HOT ROD]

so why is it that many folks in the Chicago area (esp northern Chitown) will fly out of MKE. What do they have that OKC can work on to match?

MKE is actually much closer to Chicago (ORD, MDW) than OKC is to Dallas (DFW, DAL), yet the leakage seems to be switched. I assume both MKE and OKC lose international pax to DFW and ORD respectfully, but what can OKC do to get DFW folks to drive up? or at least keep most of our pax like MKE does.

[Richard at Remax]

it's 45 - 50 min from the northern Chicago suburbs to the Milwaukee airport. I would assume there is little to no traffic too. easy to see why some would fly out of MKE.

[HOT ROD]

so OKC is too far from the DFW metroplex to garner similar leakage as shown in Chicagoland to MKE?

[Downwind17]

“Looks like starting Sept 3 - May 4, the MIA route on AA goes to Saturday only. Then it goes back to daily in May.”

That is outrageous. This flight has a tremendous load factor nearly every day. Seems hard to fathom that AA’s analysis of the route’s profitability told them to just yank it altogether instead of just raising the fare some. Seems like they’re just crapping on us do they can send an E175 to some smaller market in the east.

[Downwind17]

Omaha is known for having unusually high amount of business travel. Louisville probably benefits getting east coast and upper midwest connections vs OKC due to being around half the distance between city pairs, saving both fuel and time the planes are needed for the trips.

It just doesn’t make sense. Our planes are full…numbers are up, yet we are loosing service. Fares out of OKC are not the cheapest, either. Obviously, people are willing to pay. OMA, DSM, SDF, BOI, XNA…all markets that are smaller than OKC, but we don’t seem to get any attention. Surely it’s more than “we’re just 2.5 hours from Dallas.” I would never think of driving to Dallas for a domestic trip. After you pay for parking, potentially a hotel the night before and the lost time driving back…it can be a net loss to do so.

[bison34]

It just doesn’t make sense. Our planes are full…numbers are up, yet we are loosing service. Fares out of OKC are not the cheapest, either. Obviously, people are willing to pay. OMA, DSM, SDF, BOI, XNA…all markets that are smaller than OKC, but we don’t seem to get any attention. Surely it’s more than “we’re just 2.5 hours from Dallas.” I would never think of driving to Dallas for a domestic trip. After you pay for parking, potentially a hotel the night before and the lost time driving back…it can be a net loss to do so.

OKC is usually one of the first places airlines cut, and rarely returns to prior capacity (see Delta pulling DTW, United puling EWR, SFO, AA pulling PHL and now indefinitely pausing Miami). These route closures/pauses will have impacts down the line, especially from an optics perspective. Airlines see OKC losing routes/frequencies, and it doesn't inspire them to develop the OKC market further.

[Richard at Remax]

OKC is usually one of the first places airlines cut, and rarely returns to prior capacity (see Delta pulling DTW, United puling EWR, SFO, AA pulling PHL and now indefinitely pausing Miami). These route closures/pauses will have impacts down the line, especially from an optics perspective. Airlines see OKC losing routes/frequencies, and it doesn't inspire them to develop the OKC market further.

They aren't indefinitely pausing MIA. It's going to Saturday only, then going back to daily service starting again in May.

It def is discouraging to see cities get new routes, but I also see a ton of cities losing service to places as well. I think our last true new nonstop was to Nashville. Our equipment upgrades on the legacy carriers and the increased frequencies across all airlines are pushing our numbers up.

At a minimum, I think not having back SFO or IAD is absurd. I understand EWR because they have been slowly trimming away regional service, but would still use it even though I am an AA FF. AA to PHL would great for me as it opens a handful of more European destinations with only 1 stop.

If you look at our current map, only having two destinations to the NE is a travesty. https://www.flightconnections.com/fl...ahoma-city-okc

We always hear how much our city is growing population wise, but our routes don't really reflect that yet. Hopefully we'll get some news soon

[VeggieMeat]

OMA, DSM, SDF, BOI, XNA

BOI: Horizon, SkyWest domiciles
DSM: Allegiant domicile
SDF: UPS, Mesa, Republic domiciles

XNA and OMA have Walmart and Berkshire Hathaway. At one time, you could get paid well to be a plane spotter in those areas.

[shai2022]

They aren't indefinitely pausing MIA. It's going to Saturday only, then going back to daily service starting again in May.

It def is discouraging to see cities get new routes, but I also see a ton of cities losing service to places as well. I think our last true new nonstop was to Nashville. Our equipment upgrades on the legacy carriers and the increased frequencies across all airlines are pushing our numbers up.

At a minimum, I think not having back SFO or IAD is absurd. I understand EWR because they have been slowly trimming away regional service, but would still use it even though I am an AA FF. AA to PHL would great for me as it opens a handful of more European destinations with only 1 stop.

If you look at our current map, only having two destinations to the NE is a travesty. https://www.flightconnections.com/fl...ahoma-city-okc

We always hear how much our city is growing population wise, but our routes don't really reflect that yet. Hopefully we'll get some news soon

Nashville is no longer daily after September. Delta was planning on adding a second daily to LGA but looks like they abandoned those plans.

[Richard at Remax]

Not surprised about pulling BNA back a bit. It's a very leisure market right now.

[shai2022]

Not surprised about pulling BNA back a bit. It's a very leisure market right now.

Our largest unserved market for Q2 2024 is SF with 100 PDEW. Easily enough to fill a regional jet. Followed by Tampa (83), Boston (81) and San Diego (75).

LA had 247 PDEW with only two regionals daily. Room to expand service there for sure.

[bison34]

Nashville is no longer daily after September. Delta was planning on adding a second daily to LGA but looks like they abandoned those plans.

Again, not helping the case that OKC isn't marketing itself to these airlines enough. No one will ever convince me that airports don't gain points based off marketing. Or better use of incentives. OKC deserves better than the service we have.

Hell, by the time the Olympics come around in 2028, passengers will have to connect in Dallas to get to OKC from LAX. Lol.

[unfundedrick]

Again, not helping the case that OKC isn't marketing itself to these airlines enough. No one will ever convince me that airports don't gain points based off marketing. Or better use of incentives. OKC deserves better than the service we have.

Hell, by the time the Olympics come around in 2028, passengers will have to connect in Dallas to get to OKC from LAX. Lol.

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What inside information do you have about what OKC is doing except guessing?

[Richard at Remax]

Our largest unserved market for Q2 2024 is SF with 100 PDEW. Easily enough to fill a regional jet. Followed by Tampa (83), Boston (81) and San Diego (75).

LA had 247 PDEW with only two regionals daily. Room to expand service there for sure.

Where do you get these stats? Interesting for sure. SF not surprising

[bison34]

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What inside information do you have about what OKC is doing except guessing?

I don't, but my eyes can see that OKC isn't doing enough. It is common sense. OKC can't be that bad of a market if they are growing, passenger-wise, every year. Yet here we are, not getting any new routes, losing frequencies on full routes, not regaining routes they lost in 2020. I mean one of those is fine, but all 3 points to a deficiency somewhere.

I am an auditor and CPA, so I am literally trained to not believe in coincidences.

[unfundedrick]

I don't, but my eyes can see that OKC isn't doing enough. It is common sense. OKC can't be that bad of a market if they are growing, passenger-wise, every year. Yet here we are, not getting any new routes, losing frequencies on full routes, not regaining routes they lost in 2020. I mean one of those is fine, but all 3 points to a deficiency somewhere.

I am an auditor and CPA, so I am literally trained to not believe in coincidences.

LOL, so you're guessing and don't really know anything. That's what I figured. Get back to me when you really know something to back up your guesses. I know from over 35 years of dealing with airlines that many things they do are just decided by computers and seemingly make no obvious sense at all.

[Plutonic Panda]

I am an auditor and CPA, so I am literally trained to not believe in coincidences.

Joe "have you tried DMT" Rogan could change your mind.

[bison34]

LOL, so you're guessing and don't really know anything. That's what I figured. Get back to me when you really know something to back up your guesses. I know from over 35 years of dealing with airlines that many things they do are just decided by computers and seemingly make no obvious sense at all.

Whatever you say.

[VeggieMeat]

I don't, but my eyes can see that OKC isn't doing enough. It is common sense. OKC can't be that bad of a market if they are growing, passenger-wise, every year. Yet here we are, not getting any new routes, losing frequencies on full routes, not regaining routes they lost in 2020. I mean one of those is fine, but all 3 points to a deficiency somewhere.

I am an auditor and CPA, so I am literally trained to not believe in coincidences.

So why the assumption that all markets have uniform variables?

[bison34]

So why the assumption that all markets have uniform variables?

I'm not. We are in OKC, so we are more exposed to it. And I am basing it solely off what others have that we don't. We need more connections. It boosts tourism, boosts tax revenue. Our mayor keeps calling us a Big League City, but our airport doesnt reflect that. Losing routes and frequencies at this rate OKC has isn't a good look, perception-wise. Airlines definitely use what other airlines are doing at airports to help determine whether to look into expanding at an airport. If they don't, they are foolish.

OKC has been growing, yet still losing options. Which causes airlines to be able to charge more for flights out of OKC. At some point, someone in OKC is failing.

As for uniform variables, what variables does OKC lack that Louisville and Omaha don't? I refuse to believe that many people, aside from maybe some of those flying overseas, drive to DFW to skip flying out of OKC.

I'm done cluttering up this thread, though. Feel free to DM me for more of my thoughts. Even though it is on topic.

[shai2022]

Where do you get these stats? Interesting for sure. SF not surprising

https://data.transportation.gov/Avia...ST/page/filter