Self defense - Racist style

[CuatrodeMayo]

go be a troll someplace else. if you can't discuss issues like a mature adult, then don't post. -M

No joke...Seriously.

[possumfritter]

Sadly, all of this is just a very sad commentary on the kind of society we have become.

I would have to check the numbers, but I believe more people have been killed in Oklahoma this year then have the number of American Troops in Iraq.

Very, very sad indeed.

[PennyQuilts]

Sadly, all of this is just a very sad commentary on the kind of society we have become.

I would have to check the numbers, but I believe more people have been killed in Oklahoma this year then have the number of American Troops in Iraq.

Very, very sad indeed.

Yup - and the senselessness of it all is what makes it all the more hard to take. What a tragedy that a young life was lost and there are others that are going to be destroyed by this. For no good reasons, whatsoever.

I can't imagine one of my children being in this situation but then again, it only goes to show that you never know, really, how your life can take an awful, unexpected turn. Sure, the adult thugs and perhaps the kids knew they were going down the wrong path, but I'm betting they never expected something like this to happen. Doesn't make it right - just makes it all the more obvious that thinking people need to stop and consider the possible consequences before they hang out with thugs or engage in criminal behavior. And teach their kids to do the same.

I don't know what to say about the pharmacist. I don't know what he was thinking. And how could I? I have no idea what I would do if someone pointed a gun at me and threatened to kill me. I'd like to think I'd keep my head but wouldn't suggest anyone bet on it. Someone who is not particularly stable might crack. Dunno. I guess I'd personally like to think that he just cracked rather than that he executed the kid. I suspect a lot of people see it different - some people I respect say they would have liked to have done the same thing as the pharmacist. I guess figuring out what happened is what trials are for. Sad, sad.

[possumfritter]

East Coast Okie,

You are so right..."we" just don't know what "we" would do unless "we" were in that same situation.

I don't own a handgun or a business, so hopefully I'll never face anything like that in my lifetime. Although my oldest Son was robbed at gunpoint when he was closing up at Sonic one evening. And he was assaulted once when he fired a slacker. I didn't like what I was feeling or thinking on those two occassions.

But, after seeing the video over and over and over, absent the presence of any weapon in the wounded boys hand, I really do have to wonder what the pharmacist was thinking.

[fourthworldtraffic]

Now were talking about people deserving to die.... I resist my explosive response change the topic this is no cipher it's a hog wallow of thumbtwiddling nonsense. It was a ****ed up situation with drugs and fire power involved.

[fourthworldtraffic]

We have got to become more involved and better at being neighborhoods and communities....really though..EVerytime I get on the computer I just get angry..and so I think I need to be developing my real life instead of ranting at abstract emotional weather ...What are we doing?

[BB37]

He may not have been thinking, but acting purely on adrenaline. That's something that law enforcement agencies train police officers to guard against (during/after a pursuit, shootout, etc.), but difficult to do in a 4 hour concealed carry class. And since the pharmacist is a disabled veteran, some are raising questions about post-traumatic stress disorder playing a part.

At most, I think the pharmacist will get a manslaughter conviction. Certainly not murder 1.

[possumfritter]

He may not have been thinking, but acting purely on adrenaline. That's something that law enforcement agencies train police officers to guard against (during/after a pursuit, shootout, etc.), but difficult to do in a 4 hour concealed carry class. And since the pharmacist is a disabled veteran, some are raising questions about post-traumatic stress disorder playing a part.

At most, I think the pharmacist will get a manslaughter conviction. Certainly not murder 1.

BB37...I kinda thought the same way after the phamacist fired the second shot (with the first shot being "justified"). But the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th shots.

If the most qualified Judge is not assigned to hear this case, the consequences could make for a long, hot summer.

[Curt]

Nice... internet tough guy.

Would you have killed them all with a roundhouse kick you learned from Chuck Norris? Since the [we'll call them defendants because that's what they are now] defendants were in the process of fleeing and no longer posed any sort of threat, and indeed, you would have probably had to shoot them in the back as they were fleeing, you'd be charged with murder for each of them as well as kevinpate said.

If you're going to exhibit that kind of irresponsibility with your firearms (even when you're fantasizing about killing people), you really have no business owning them. You apparently don't understand when it is and isn't ok to use deadly force.

Ok since you know me so well..have you ever been held up at gun point? have you ever had your mother murdered like I have?...Ok now you pushed my button...you want proof?

I have no sympathy for criminals and they do deserve to die if they are willing to kill someone else while commiting a crime..

It's weak bleeding hearts like you that make me want to puke..

[Midtowner]

I have no sympathy for criminals and they do deserve to die if they are willing to kill someone else while commiting a crime..

I can see that you're projecting just a bit here. You don't know what "they" are willing to do or not do, but you should know that after the danger has abated and "they" no longer have the capability of killing you or hurting you other than maybe bleeding on you a bit, that you are no longer able to kill them. It's very simple really. If you do kill, you go to the pokey just like you had killed them in cold blood.

[Thunder]

If he is convicted on manslaughter, isn't that still punishable by death?

[CuatrodeMayo]

Ok ...since you know me so well..have you ever been held up at gun point? have you ever had your mother murdered like I have?...Ok now you pushed my button...you want proof?

I have no sympathy for criminals and they do deserve to die if they are willing to kill someone else while commiting a crime..

It's weak bleeding hearts like you that make me want to puke..

"Go on and make your jokes Mr Jokey... Joke-maker!"

[Midtowner]

If he is convicted on manslaughter, isn't that still punishable by death?

Never.

[Thunder]

Never.

Well, I remember Sami on Days of our Lives was convicted on manslaughter for killing (but she didn't when she was found on the scene blacked out) and was sentenced to death. They revived her after someone made a confession in time.

I guess every state is different. What's the punishment for manslaughter?

[nighttrain12]

Well, I remember Sami on Days of our Lives was convicted on manslaughter for killing (but she didn't when she was found on the scene blacked out) and was sentenced to death. They revived her after someone made a confession in time.

I guess every state is different. What's the punishment for manslaughter?

There's no set amount but it would probably be about 2 years served.

I have a hard time believing they will find 12 jurors in any of the 77 counties in Oklahoma that will all vote guilty on any charge.

[Thunder]

I have a hard time believing they will find 12 jurors in any of the 77 counties in Oklahoma that will all vote guilty on any charge.

It's not that hard, according to some people on here definately will find him guilty.

[possumfritter]

Thunder...you can start here:

OSCN Found Document:First Degree Manslaughter

[PennyQuilts]

Well, I remember Sami on Days of our Lives was convicted on manslaughter for killing (but she didn't when she was found on the scene blacked out) and was sentenced to death. They revived her after someone made a confession in time.

I guess every state is different.

You can't make this stuff up.

[Thunder]

You can't make this stuff up.

I didn't! It was so many years ago. Lucas was the one that killed Franco, Sami's fiance on their wedding day (cant remember how it started but it was accidental...I think Franco provoked it). Sami walked in, saw the body, and passed out. Kate, Lucas' mother, put the murder weapon next to Sami with her fingerprints on it when she discovered the scene before anyone else did.

She was charged for manslaughter and sentenced to death. Ever since that, I thought manslaughter was punishable by death, but it doesn't seem like that for Oklahoma.

[PennyQuilts]

I didn't! It was so many years ago. Lucas was the one that killed Franco, Sami's fiance on their wedding day (cant remember how it started but it was accidental...I think Franco provoked it). Sami walked in, saw the body, and passed out. Kate, Lucas' mother, put the murder weapon next to Sami with her fingerprints on it when she discovered the scene before anyone else did.

She was charged for manslaughter and sentenced to death. Ever since that, I thought manslaughter was punishable by death, but it doesn't seem like that for Oklahoma.

Yes, well, okay. Proof positive that Oklahoma is soft on crime...

[Midtowner]

She was charged for manslaughter and sentenced to death. Ever since that, I thought manslaughter was punishable by death, but it doesn't seem like that for Oklahoma.

It pretty much has to be murder in the first degree. And there usually have to be aggravating circumstances.

[kevinpate]

Thunder, this information is reasonably accurate.
Capital punishment in Oklahoma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To go to the actual statute language, start here:
OSCN Found Document:Murder in the First Degree

There's a Next Section button in the burgandy header, use it to navigate through until you get to section 733. Once you get there, you've got it pretty well covered.

Oh, and while you've probably already figured it out by now, just in case there is any confusion remaining, soap operas, like most telly stuff, don't know diddly about Oklahoma law.
8^)

[USG '60]

I don't believe Manslaughter is a capital crime in ANY state. The function of the name is it's distinction from Murder, is it not?

[kevinpate]

USG, you are correct. Shoot fire and save the Talons, Not even all Murder I cases are capital crimes.

Though many do not realize it, and many even lament it, the death penalty is rarely placed on the table as a punishment, even in Oklahoma and Texas, two very strong death penalty states.

The VAST majority of Murder I cases, whether intentional murder or felony murder, never have a bill of particulars (BOP) filed by the state. The BOP is an additional charging document. it sets forth the specific alleged circumstance(s) that would warrant making a defendant death eligible for his or her specific offense.

Without a BOP, the death penalty option is never open for consideration in a specific case.

With a BOP, the jury, or judge in a non-jury setting, first decides guilt or innocence on the charged crime.

If guilty of anything less than a variation of Murder I, the death penalty goes off the table and sentencing is based on statutory parameters for the specific class of crime.

If guilty of Murder I or Felony Murder I, then a sentencing trial commences.

If the fact finder decides at the conclusion that least one statutory aggravating circumstance does exist beyond a reasonable doubt, then at this point, the death penalty is finally set on the table as one of three punishment options, but is not required to be imposed.

Even in the most vile and cruel form of crime, and even if the defendant is the most unremorseful, spiteful, seemingly souless, utterly of no value to even his momma sort of chap, the death penalty becomes one additional option open to the decision maker. The other two options, life imprisonment and life without a possibility of parole, are always available for a Murder I defendant.

[legislativeResearcher]

The idea that a participant in an armed robbery was "executed" shows that Oklahoma County has a DA that is not capable of solid judgement.

The only thing that Ersland should have been charged with is "Reckless Endangerment" since he chased the other armed robber and could have caused injury to innocent bystanders.

It is impossible to "murder" a participant in armed robbery. period

No one deserves to die, but Antwun participating in an armed robbery forfeits all his rights.
Antwun's family does not want to accept what their son did and that the consequences were his responsibility.

It would be bad for public policy for the armed robbery participant, Antwun to be made a victim or martyr.
The armed robbers planned the attack and propped open the door to circumvent security measures.

Civil rights leaders are off base trying to make this a racial matter.

Armed robbers do not have any civil rights.

Judge Bass Jones-Lesure is making this sound like a civil rights matter, saying it is a case of "equal justice"
Most people would see it as a case of law and order

DA Prater made a false statement that is inflammatory saying that Antwun was unconscious and was executed, since the video does not show anything about his state of conscious, IT IS A THEORY that he was unconscious.