Panasonic Battery Plant

[BG918]

The Kansas City start did an article on Panasonic. It said Kansas City's much bigger work force than Tulsa's was in part. It also said the project was almost canceled, due to inflation: https://www.kansascity.com/news/poli...263445783.html

Ford is building two massive EV and battery factories in rural parts of Kentucky and Tennessee. Pryor is in between Tulsa and NWA which has a combined population of 1.7M with another ~300k within a two hour drive in eastern Oklahoma, the highest population density in the state

[chssooner]

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politi...lahoma/2021/01

Using this to go to North Carolina, I no longer think education matters. They are barely, and I mean BARELY higher than Oklahoma.

https://www.urban.org/policy-centers...n-expenditures

Using the above, Oklahoma is above many other states that have been getting these uber-manufacturing projects. I think that it has a ton to do with tax incentives just not being structured well-enough. Most states getting these projects couldn't care less about social issues (Oklahoma has legal weed, where as Texas, Kansas, Kentucky, and North Carolina don't). Not like they are more progressive on any more issues than Oklahoma is.

Point being, I think Oklahoma just needs to look at how they structure their taxes, and somehow change their perception. Because aside from secondary education, they are very, very competitive with most states getting thee large projects. And even more so when it comes to higher education spending.

[PhiAlpha]

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politi...lahoma/2021/01

Using this to go to North Carolina, I no longer think education matters. They are barely, and I mean BARELY higher than Oklahoma.

https://www.urban.org/policy-centers...n-expenditures

Using the above, Oklahoma is above many other states that have been getting these uber-manufacturing projects. I think that it has a ton to do with tax incentives just not being structured well-enough. Most states getting these projects couldn't care less about social issues (Oklahoma has legal weed, where as Texas, Kansas, Kentucky, and North Carolina don't). Not like they are more progressive on any more issues than Oklahoma is.

Point being, I think Oklahoma just needs to look at how they structure their taxes, and somehow change their perception. Because aside from secondary education, they are very, very competitive with most states getting thee large projects. And even more so when it comes to higher education spending.

Yeah I definitely don’t think it would hurt for the state to look deeper into this and evaluate everything that led to them choosing Kansas over OK, but I would put a lot of money on the financial considerations being the primary driver in their decision. I’ve talked to multiple people who deal with things like this on a daily basis, one being the head of government affairs for OK for a national company with a huge presence here (who wouldn’t have any reason to spin some story for the state) , all said they thought and had heard that it all came down to KS giving them 30-40% more in incentives.

As I said, by all means we should evaluate what went wrong here so that we can make the moves necessary to win next time but we also shouldn’t wallow in despair and over think it. It wasn’t like KS just threw $500 on top of our offer and that sent the deal over the edge. They offered significantly more money to a multinational company that likely saw the two locations and two states as extremely similar so they took the better incentive package.

[Bunty]

Or maybe Panasonic already decided it would be Kansas and wanted to see if Kansas would offer more incentive than Oklahoma. It apparently did. Maybe Oklahoma had a claw back in the contract while Kansas didn't. So, if Panasonic could only get up to 2000, rather than 4000 jobs, it would have to give back half of the incentives to Kansas.

[Bunty]

Oklahoma will have to decide fate of $698 million set aside for failed Panasonic deal
https://www.stwnewspress.com/oklahom...2b9ca1b65.html

[David]

‘Shocking.’ Kansas secures no jobs or pay commitments in Panasonic’s $4B battery plant

There’s no question that the numbers were significant when Panasonic announced it would invest some $4 billion and create 4,000 jobs at a new battery plant in De Soto. Kansas Gov. Laura Kelly said the investment was the largest in state history. And if Panasonic were to hire 4,000 workers, it would become one of the largest employers in the Kansas City metro area. But that’s a big if. The state’s agreement with Panasonic doesn’t require the company to create 4,000 jobs — or any jobs at all. Nor does it create minimum wage or salary standards for the firm — a crucial component of many economic development packages.

Turns out the big thing our Panasonic deal was missing was the complete lack of accountability that the Kansas version had.

[shavethewhales]

Yeah, the KS deal is crazy. I feel slightly better now that I've actually looked at what both states were offering and it makes somewhat more sense that they chose KS even though I'm sure there are plenty of factors about OK that still need to be addressed. The thing is, as loose as the KS deal is, they'll still probably come out ahead anyway. Panasonic is going to create a large number of high paying jobs, even if it ends up being less than 4,000. There will likely be other supporting firms and suppliers that move in around Panasonic and they'll make themselves more attractive to other companies.

[Plutonic Panda]

Hopefully leaders are eyeing this bill and potential developments that might come from it can be lured to the state: https://www.route-fifty.com/infrastr...uction/374970/

[Bunty]

Hopefully leaders are eyeing this bill and potential developments that might come from it can be lured to the state: https://www.route-fifty.com/infrastr...uction/374970/

Due to their fiscal conservatism policy, I wouldn't trust Oklahomans in Congress to want to direct federal semi-conductor incentive money to Oklahoma. Sen. Inhofe might be an exception to that, but he doesn't have much time left. Can anybody think of anything Sen. Lankford has done for Oklahoma as far as directing federal money to Oklahoma, such as improve the infrastructure? I can't. Or what the reps have done.

Republican candidates for Congress ought to be asked what they want to do to direct federal funds to Oklahoma to help with its infrastructure, economic development or whatever. If they don't want to do anything, then they might as well advocate for federal income tax cuts.

[HFAA Alum]

Oklahoma will have to decide fate of $698 million set aside for failed Panasonic deal
https://www.stwnewspress.com/oklahom...2b9ca1b65.html

I'm sure Stitt will try to keep that money stashed in Tulsa somehow, despite it better being used elsewhere. In other news, I hear OKC is trying to implement a rail system for the metro and there's rumblings of a new stadium for the Thunder on the horizon. But of course that's in OKC, Stitt is more into photo-ops and shoving every lucrative business opportunity out of the state.

[TU 'cane]

I'm sure Stitt will try to keep that money stashed in Tulsa somehow, despite it better being used elsewhere. In other news, I hear OKC is trying to implement a rail system for the metro and there's rumblings of a new stadium for the Thunder on the horizon. But of course that's in OKC, Stitt is more into photo-ops and shoving every lucrative business opportunity out of the state.

Help me out here, would ya? I'm confused, are you angry OK didn't land the Panasonic plant? Are you satisfied "Tulsa" didn't get it to spite Stitt and Tulsa? I put Tulsa in quotes because Pryor is about 40-45 mins. East of Tulsa and not even included in the metro.
Has Stitt literally shoved every "lucrative" business opportunity out of the state? Like, he's pushing them away the best he can instead of trying to draw them here? Can you please provide proof of your claim(s)?

The Tulsa bashing that goes on in this board is something that I've been watching since taking a break from here and it's only gotten worse since we have a governor from Tulsa (God forbid it!). Tulsa, for the benefit of all of the posters on here who've partaken in this silly charade, has a metro over 1,000,000 and is OK's second largest city. It needs things just as much as OKC does. So, are you suggesting OKC gets everything and every other city be damned? What all has Stitt "given" Tulsa vs. OKC?

Please, help me out here.

P.S. as far as the Thunder's new arena goes, this is a Tulsa specific sub-forum with a thread about the Panasonic plant.
But since you started it, here it goes: You're fine with state tax dollars going to the Thunder when OKC should be first and foremost trying to figure it out?
What of the people in Durant who are Mavericks fans? What of the folks in Guymon or Boise City who may be Nuggets fans? And what of the people who don't care about the NBA?

[TU 'cane]

If we're going to have these conversations, let's have them.
Maybe some of you will start thinking before posting emotional outbursts.

[chssooner]

Help me out here, would ya? I'm confused, are you angry OK didn't land the Panasonic plant? Are you satisfied "Tulsa" didn't get it to spite Stitt and Tulsa? I put Tulsa in quotes because Pryor is about 40-45 mins. East of Tulsa and not even included in the metro.
Has Stitt literally shoved every "lucrative" business opportunity out of the state? Like, he's pushing them away the best he can instead of trying to draw them here? Can you please provide proof of your claim(s)?

The Tulsa bashing that goes on in this board is something that I've been watching since taking a break from here and it's only gotten worse since we have a governor from Tulsa (God forbid it!). Tulsa, for the benefit of all of the posters on here who've partaken in this silly charade, has a metro over 1,000,000 and is OK's second largest city. It needs things just as much as OKC does. So, are you suggesting OKC gets everything and every other city be damned? What all has Stitt "given" Tulsa vs. OKC?

Please, help me out here.

P.S. as far as the Thunder's new arena goes, this is a Tulsa specific sub-forum with a thread about the Panasonic plant.
But since you started it, here it goes: You're fine with state tax dollars going to the Thunder when OKC should be first and foremost trying to figure it out?
What of the people in Durant who are Mavericks fans? What of the folks in Guymon or Boise City who may be Nuggets fans? And what of the people who don't care about the NBA?

Not everything. But pitting Tulsa against Austin or Kansas City isn't fair. Tulsa against Wichita or El Paso, sure. But those big hitters were not looking for a smaller big city like Tulsa. OKC was better to competitor against both. And he should have realized it after the Tesla abortion.

[TU 'cane]

Not everything. But pitting Tulsa against Austin or Kansas City isn't fair. Tulsa against Wichita or El Paso, sure. But those big hitters were not looking for a smaller big city like Tulsa. OKC was better to competitor against both. And he should have realized it after the Tesla abortion.

Does OKC have anything along the same lines as the M.A.I.C. with infrastructure ready to go + relative proximity to a port?
Has the city of OKC told Stitt they have a site ready to go for these proposals? If so, let's see it. Or is OKC sitting back and letting things go by as well?

Does the governor trump the chamber of commerce(s) and other economic advisory boards? Have any of them come out and said OKC would be more competitive or there are better sites around OKC (or other parts of the state)?

[BG918]

Not everything. But pitting Tulsa against Austin or Kansas City isn't fair. Tulsa against Wichita or El Paso, sure. But those big hitters were not looking for a smaller big city like Tulsa. OKC was better to competitor against both. And he should have realized it after the Tesla abortion.

Mid-America meets a lot of the criteria large industrial plants need like large plots of land with a single landowner and utility rate electricity and water through GRDA. It's location is great for some manufacturing and data center operations but it's distance from Tulsa likely puts it at a disadvantage for attracting operations with thousands of employees. The Tesla site was at least within the Tulsa city limits but I haven't seen it marketed again, and doesn't have a lot of the built-in advantages of MAIP or Cherokee.

[chssooner]

Does OKC have anything along the same lines as the M.A.I.C. with infrastructure ready to go + relative proximity to a port?
Has the city of OKC told Stitt they have a site ready to go for these proposals? If so, let's see it. Or is OKC sitting back and letting things go by as well?

Does the governor trump the chamber of commerce(s) and other economic advisory boards? Have any of them come out and said OKC would be more competitive or there are better sites around OKC (or other parts of the state)?

Stitt was all over the Tesla and Panasonic plant bids, and was the visible face of the bids. When has he done anything like that for an OK area project? Sure, he will be a face at an announcement, but he doesn't tweet at people for OKC bids. The governor being visible means a lot. Abbott in Texas does it all the time, for the entire state, not just his beloved home area.

[Bellaboo]

Don't forget that Stitt moved a part of the Health department to Stillwater, His beloved college town. And it was a mess for a good while. People resigned not wanting to relocate.
Stitt puts his people in high admin jobs, and they later get tossed for not being qualified. Look at the Tourism Dept fiasco, and the lack of transparency.
Just can't trust the guy.
He also butchered OTC. Installing his puppets, which damn near destroyed it with the loss of the knowledge base.

[Bunty]

It's interesting how Stitt in moving the health dept. to Stillwater put it closer to Tulsa. Anyway, I hope enough people have the good sense not to vote for Stitt in Nov. Too much bad political judgment. Too much scandal. Too much alienating the tribes. For starters.

[HangryHippo]

Don't forget that Stitt moved a part of the Health department to Stillwater, His beloved college town. And it was a mess for a good while. People resigned not wanting to relocate.
Stitt puts his people in high admin jobs, and they later get tossed for not being qualified. Look at the Tourism Dept fiasco, and the lack of transparency.
Just can't trust the guy.
He also butchered OTC. Installing his puppets, which damn near destroyed it with the loss of the knowledge base.

But, but, but, he supports OKC too. /s

[Thomas Vu]

I'm not sure if the Tulsa hate is really even hate. I don't stop by as often, but don't think I see a lot in terms of Tulsa hate.

[Scott5114]

I just got back from Kansas City last week. It's shocking how many new warehouses and big industrial buildings there are in Johnson County that I didn't notice the last time I was there in November. A lot of stuff going in along the I-35 corridor in Edgerton and Gardner. It's clear that there's some sort of magic happening there that isn't here, even beyond this Panasonic deal.

[rte66man]

I think the new BNSF intermodal facility just east of Edgerton was the catalyst for a lot of this expansion. Add in the expansion of the New Century airpark in Gardner (looks like the runways are long enough to take UPS and FedEx jets) and you have a sweet spot for warehouses. Walmart and Amazon surely think so.

[TU 'cane]

I just got back from Kansas City last week. It's shocking how many new warehouses and big industrial buildings there are in Johnson County that I didn't notice the last time I was there in November. A lot of stuff going in along the I-35 corridor in Edgerton and Gardner. It's clear that there's some sort of magic happening there that isn't here, even beyond this Panasonic deal.

I think the new BNSF intermodal facility just east of Edgerton was the catalyst for a lot of this expansion. Add in the expansion of the New Century airpark in Gardner (looks like the runways are long enough to take UPS and FedEx jets) and you have a sweet spot for warehouses. Walmart and Amazon surely think so.

In case both of you haven't noticed the popular opinion(s) going on here, we aren't allowed to discuss these other possible reasons. We're only allowed to blame current state leadership, rural rednecks, etc.

I jest, but I hope people see the point that conversations like these become a joke when there's some scapegoat to pin things on instead of logical facts like this. Just re-read the last several pages.

Of course, some people will then turn this part of the conversation into "Well, why isn't Stitt encouraging new warehouse construction around Pryor or OKC?!"



Just havin' a little fun, people. Don't anyone take it too seriously.

[David]

I've read fun posts before, that one didn't seem to come from a place of fun.

[dcsooner]

I've read fun posts before, that one didn't seem to come from a place of fun.

+!