Why I am voting No.

[betts]

I might be too nervous for a watch party. But, if the measure passes, I want to do a celebratory party on Wednesday.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm guessing that the chamber will have one ... I surely hope so, whether the result be "good" (i.e, "Hell YES") or not. Either way, it will be a good time for closure ... I can get back to writing "history" stuff in my blog, put down this "political interlude," and get on with what's next.

[SouthsideSooner]

There's an informal poll running on NewsOK.com that began yesterday, if anyone wants to chime in.....

NewsOK.com Article

[bornhere]

I see the Oklahoman – where social darwinism is alive and well – is playing its tired old 'class envy' card again.

Someone who wanted to spend the money on a Lexis/Nexis search for the past 30 or so years would probably find that the terms 'class envy' and 'class warfare' have appeared on the Oklahoman's editorial page more often than all the other nation's major editorial pages combined – and almost always in the context of some Gaylord clan member or other millionaire that shares their ultra-right wing political connections not getting some special treatment.

There probably isn't a week goes by that somewhere in Oklahoma, some millionaire doesn't get the winning bid on a contract, or is turned down for a zoning variance or suffers some other setback. But those aren't 'class envy.' It's only when the metro area's self-styled feudal overlords don't get what they want that it's because the peasantry is jealous of their superior status.

[jbrown84]

There's an informal poll running on NewsOK.com that began yesterday, if anyone wants to chime in.....

NewsOK.com Article

I wish there was an actual poll there and not just a comment board.

[SouthsideSooner]

"I see the Oklahoman – where social darwinism is alive and well – is playing its tired old 'class envy' card again."


I thought this was a very good editorial but after reading your previous posts, I can't say I'm suprised you only saw two words on the page.....


Arena choice: Plan a winner for Oklahoma City

The Oklahoman Editorial

WHEN he first disclosed plans to seek a taxpayer-funded upgrade to the Ford Center, in order to give Oklahoma City a shot at landing a pro basketball franchise, Mayor Mick Cornett summed things up this way: "This is a choice. We can choose to be an NBA city, or we can choose not to be.”

It really is that simple. Those who live in Oklahoma City and want to see our city continue the momentum that's been more than a decade in the making need to choose "yes” on March 4, a week from Tuesday.

A yes vote would mean approval of a 1-cent sales tax, to begin the day after the current MAPS for Kids tax expires at year's end. The arena tax would last about 15 months and fund major improvements to the Ford Center and construction of a practice facility. New restaurants, better concession areas and other upgrades would be the result — essentially a new arena.

With a yes vote, Oklahoma City voters would be saying they believe that what transpired here with the New Orleans Hornets — when we knocked the NBA's socks off with our support of the displaced squad — wasn't a fluke but instead was a sign of things to come, if only the city got the chance.

A yes vote would signal to others in the region, indeed around the country, that Oklahoma City is more than just that place where the awful bombing happened, and instead is a vibrant and growing city that wants to grow even more. Joining the NBA community would help that happen — we've written previously about the league's remarkable and ever-growing global reach.

A yes vote would make it easy for the NBA's board of governors to approve the relocation of the Seattle SuperSonics to Oklahoma City. The NBA's commissioner has said it's clear the Sonics will be moving on, because there's no resolution in sight to an ongoing beef with ownership. Oklahoma City is first in line for the Sonics' new address, but we'll be erased from the list if the tax is defeated.

Opponents of the March 4 proposition lean heavily on class envy arguments, saying the team's wealthy owners — all Oklahoma City businessmen — should pay for arena upgrades and a practice site if they want their team here. The reality is that taxpayer-funded facilities are the norm in pro cities. From Jerry Jones' new home for the Dallas Cowboys to George Steinbrenner's new Yankee Stadium, public dollars are helping pay at least some of the freight.

And there's much to be said for local ownership. If the Sonics come here, it's fair to expect that the men who have already invested so heavily in their team will do everything they can to make it work, for their team and the city.

Oklahoma City has been transformed in the past 10-15 years. A yes vote March 4 would help continue that transformation. And a no vote? "I think it kills our momentum — 10 years of positive momentum,” Cornett said.

We'll choose the former.

[Kerry]

Bornhere - Do you read your own posts? You are the king of class-envy/warfare. How many times have you and others like you used the phrase "maps for millionaires" or crowned yourself savior of the poor?

[betts]

I posted this elsewhere, but wanted to repeat it so people would have a chance to read the story: The Gazette this week features the arena question, and it's a good article. I would also like to point out that the publisher of the Gazette has come out in favor of the tax proposal, and his editorial is in last week's issue.

[Doug Loudenback]

I posted this elsewhere, but wanted to repeat it so people would have a chance to read the story: The Gazette this week features the arena question, and it's a good article. I would also like to point out that the publisher of the Gazette has come out in favor of the tax proposal, and his editorial is in last week's issue.

In fact, the following metro newspapers have done the same, representing their diverse slice/perspestive of the metropolitan area:

1. The Oklahoman.
2. The Gazette.
3. The Journal Record.
4. The Black Dispatch.

If you need links, I'll amend this post to give them. But as for newspapers, the support seems to be unanimous.

Others on the internet want us to vote "No." David Glover has joined the forum and has said "why" he feels that way via the video he posted, but without rejoining the serious discourse presented HERE which detailed an opposing point of view ... maybe that will yet occur ... and then we've got march4vote.org which isn't even based in Oklahoma City but is instead a product of a San Francisco guy who apparently sees himself as an "ombudsman" in opposition to any publicly funded arena ... see Doug Dawgz Blog: www.march4vote.org ... and then we've got the Maps for Millionaires guys ( mapsformillionaires.org ) who take an inordinate pleasure in bashing Oklahoma City people who have a truckload of money and who are willing to move that truck southwesterly to Oklahoma City.

These guys are just plain silly. In none of their remarks/objections do they really come to grips with the issues a hand, one week from today. Worse, their jargon is typically very misleading and contrived and, worse, is sometimes completely a lie.

Oklahoma City has a modern (post-MAPS) history that has catapulted this city from where it was pre-MAPS into the current day ... a YES vote on March 4 continues that progress ... a YES vote, at the least, gets us a spiffy new arena about which Tulsans (among others) can but envy and which assures Oklahoma City's identity as a place to come to in the decades which follow.

A YES vote may, as well, get Oklahoma City an NBA team. It's a no-lose proposition.

So, David Glover, S Hunt, and the internet no-name and not from Oklahoma City march4vote.org, if you've got something to say that can stand th light of day, as opposed to your safe havens where you don't have that type of scrutiny, this is your time and place to engage for all to see ... the vote is one week from today.

And, for sure, Vote HELL YES!

[bornhere]

Bornhere - Do you read your own posts? You are the king of class-envy/warfare. How many times have you and others like you used the phrase "maps for millionaires" or crowned yourself savior of the poor?

I am only me. I am not "others like me." I may be wrong, but I don't think I've used the phrase 'MAPS for Millionaires' at all. I haven't crowned myself savior of anyone.

Here's more: I don't need a pro sports franchise in town to feel good about myself.

I don't wear sports souvenir clothing, so I'm not going to be humiliated by someone else having some tank top or jersey I can't trump.

I don't care whether Tulsa or Seattle or any other city is jealous of us.

I don't need to invite David Stern or the Sonics partners into my heart as personal lord and savior at a $100 million altar call.

If we let Big Daddy down on March 4, the sun will rise as always on March 5.

[mohair73]

Oklahoma City 15 years ago began a process known as MAPS. It has been tremendous in transforming our city, with over 5 billion in direct 3rd party investment all for the $390 million spent in the first MAPS vote.

We then looked to revitalizing our schools so we passed MAPS for Kids and invested almost 3.4 of a billion dollars on the school district and surrounding districts.

Now we are beginning to see some of the realities come to fruition from the original MAPS and that is a professional team to call oklahoma city home and be the permanent resident of the Ford Center.

When we built the Ford Center we built it bare bones for just under $90 million. We need to finish it . We need to take our unfinished diamond and turn it in to a crown jewel that will compete with some of the best arenas in the nation as well as keep above the curve that Tulsa, Kansas City, Omaha and others have built in the surrounding areas.

The economic impact will be beneficial to those that work in the service industry from waitstaff, to bartenders or those who work in the hotels. This is going to be a big deal and add more life and growth in our beautiful downtown. Once I-40 is relocated and the old crosstown is torn down in 2 years it will add to the growth in the Core 2 Shore development that will become part of MAPS 3.

Voting yes will begin raising the city to a tier 2 city that will bring bigger conventions, more tourism, greater growth and more tax revenues that will aid in keeping the projects that we do debt free.

Why sell bonds or take loans when a simple tax extension will allow for better return on investment, be interest and debt free and still owned fully by the city. Allowing for a better negotiation term on the NBA lease that it is a win for all those involved.

This is more then MAPS for Millionaires, it is about do we want to take the next logical step and raise the status and the level of our city. Do we want to remain like Wichita, Tulsa, Omaha or do we want to move to be like Charlotte, Portland, Memphis and other great cities similar to ours.

Let's Vote Yes for Progress.

[CCOKC]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I especially liked your point about bringing the original MAPS plans to fruition. Wasn't a professional team the ultimate goal all along? Who ever thought we would get this chance? Not me for sure and I would hate to give this chance away. This is the chance to bring this sprawling metro a true central gathering place. A way for us to come together not as crimson or orange but green and gold (not my favorite I must admit). This will bring more jobs to the center of town to people who need jobs closer to where they live which will make a better public transportation system more viable. Not to mention the publicity that comes with having an NBA team. During the Big 12 tournament I met a guy from Austin who kept going on and on about what a great city we have here. I could not believe it. I have always considered Austin to be one of the coolest cities in America and he thought we were cool. I was so proud I could have died. Let's keep the momentum up OKCitians.

[jbrown84]

I don't care whether Tulsa or Seattle or any other city is jealous of us.

I don't need to invite David Stern or the Sonics partners into my heart as personal lord and savior at a $100 million altar call.

If we let Big Daddy down on March 4, the sun will rise as always on March 5.

That is about the most backward attitude I have ever seen on this board. You try to hide it behind "the sun will come out tomorrow" optimism, but really you are just anti-progress.

How do you suppose we continue to compete for jobs, business, expanded retail, conventions, etc. if we don't continue the momentum of MAPS? We have to make the other cities jealous, or we fade into the history books as a one hit wonder as Devon and Chesapeake depart for greener pastures.

[johnnyincog]

the sales tax continuation is going to pass. there is a small and very vocal minority (vocal on internet boards, not in the real life) that opposes this public investment, but i really believe most residents of oklahoma city can see the progress that our previous MAPS projects have enabled, and trust that the ford center renovation will be a success as well. im sure the chamber has done their polling, and the fact that they havent pumped even more money into the campaign should be a sign of a successful referendum on tuesday. kevin durant will be fun to watch.

[Easy180]

Here's more: I don't need a pro sports franchise in town to feel good about myself.

I don't wear sports souvenir clothing, so I'm not going to be humiliated by someone else having some tank top or jersey I can't trump.

I don't care whether Tulsa or Seattle or any other city is jealous of us.

I don't need to invite David Stern or the Sonics partners into my heart as personal lord and savior at a $100 million altar call.

If we let Big Daddy down on March 4, the sun will rise as always on March 5.

So basically you don't like sports....Fair enough....Does seem like you have a weird issue with people who wear jerseys though

Not a day goes by w/o walking by some guy in the parking lot pointing at his new jersey and laughing at what I'm wearing

Tulsa is building a $200 mil arena just an hours drive away...Folks up there answering an altar call as well or could it be possible they just want a real nice arena for the city they live in?

[bornhere]

I didn't bring up the jersey thing. That was an issue raised by betts.

Not a day goes by w/o walking by some guy in the parking lot pointing at his new jersey and laughing at what I'm wearing

Are you serious? What parking lot is this? I can't imagine...

I don't actually object to capital improvements to the arena, except that it opens the door to the NBA coming in and demanding subsidies and incentives and rearranging of city goals and priorities to suit its needs instead of ours.

[betts]

I brought up jerseys? I don't even wear jerseys. Unless you meant me saying that people in cities are seen wearing the jersey of the NBA team in that city. To which I would have to say....yes.

[bornhere]

If it wasn't you, I apologize for saying it was. Someone said they were wearing a Dallas team jersey and were embarrassed because they encountered someone wearing a jersey or some other sports apparel from their home town, the implication being that we Oklahoma Cityans don't have the opportunity to wear home town sports jerseys.

[betts]

I'm a little embarrassed we don't have a professional team, I must confess, having moved here from a city that has four. As I've said a few times, I don't like being lumped with Omaha and Wichita. I want to be an Indianapolis, Salt Lake City or Charlotte.

[FritterGirl]

I'm a little embarrassed we don't have a professional team, I must confess, having moved here from a city that has four. As I've said a few times, I don't like being lumped with Omaha and Wichita. I want to be an Indianapolis, Salt Lake City or Charlotte.

You mean OU football and OSU basketball aren't "professional" enough for you?

[bornhere]

Well, the 'lumped in' thing is pretty much arbitrary. I don't think of us as being 'lumped in' with anyone. I've lived in some other places, too. Each had its positives and negatives. I don't think we gain anything by trying to model ourselves after some other city.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I don't think we gain anything by trying to model ourselves after some other city.

You can't learn from others?

I saw my sister stick her finger in a light socket once. BZZZZT. I learned from that, and haven't done it myself.

I see good things in other cities (I've lived on both coasts, and in Denver), and now that I've moved back home, would like to see some of those good things happen here. LoDo in Denver is what Bricktown COULD be someday. I know that Coors Field made nights down there 10x better on game nights. San Diego has the Gaslamp area (among many other hot spots) and it's a super cool place to hang out as well.

I'll probably never go to a basketball game, but I'll reap the benefits of having a team by having a much better Bricktown/downtown.

[bornhere]

You can't learn from others?

We could learn from Seattle.

[andy157]

We could learn from Seattle.

We could. But we won't

[Kerry]

We could. But we won't

Sure we will, no arena improvements - no NBA. How is that for learning?