Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)

[OKC Guy]

The median of NWE should be turned into a bus highway with signal preemption and flyovers at major intersections as to not disrupt vehicle traffic. This would also set the stage for LRT conversion in the future much like the Orange Line in the SFV(LA METRO). I'd compromise and let Classen go from 6 to 4 lanes as long as it was widened to include protected bike lanes.

NWE could be a scaled down version of this road in Buenos Aires:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Av...!4d-58.3818498



The Classen portion more akin to this minus the urban fabric obviously

I like the thinking out of box but several reasons these ideas won’t work.

1. NWE is a major corridor and reducing lanes would cause major traffic nightmares. Not a lot of room to expand side to side either.

2. Putting buses in median is a good idea but won’t work at street level. First it would only room for 1 lane due to width. And you need buses to go 2 ways. Then you would have to put up concrete barriers. Additionally this would eliminate turn lanes in between major intersections. The only way this works is to raise it up and outward like done in Houston on interstate but there is no way we could afford the costs.

It will be a challenge to make buses work soley because we never planned for buses years ago.

Heck, we can’t even get rush hour light priority accomplished after years of supposedly trying. We would rather stop 100 cars so 1 or 2 can cross instead of lengthening light cycles for majority rush hour traffic. They need to already be working on that before expanding buses happens soon enough.

[shawnw]

So, just testing the waters on general inclination of thoughts re BRT, are we headed toward using pantograpghs/overhead lines, articulated buses, and new dedicated lanes or dedicated pull outs for individual stops

The only thing I know for sure, based on the Embark ED's comments at the MAPS4 transit presentation is that there won't be articulated buses for the Classen BRT. They determined it would raise their maintenance costs too much as none of their maintenance facilities can take a bigger bus than what they have now so they'd have to spend on upgrades there. It will still be a 40 ft bus.

[Plutonic Panda]

The only thing I know for sure, based on the Embark ED's comments at the MAPS4 transit presentation is that there won't be articulated buses for the Classen BRT. They determined it would raise their maintenance costs too much as none of their maintenance facilities can take a bigger bus than what they have now so they'd have to spend on upgrades there. It will still be a 40 ft bus.

So no dedicated bus lanes, no articulated buses... fcking christ! How in the hell is this BRT!?

[HOT ROD]

Makes a lot of sense? ???

Not - wont be too much Mass Transit once that 40 foot bus fills up before even reaching May and NWE during rush hours especially. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of BRT if the bus shows up full all the time. ....

TBH, if they're going to just do 40' buses and just implement curb cuts; then they should implement this by end of next year vs. waiting until 2023. They'd only need to purchase the buses (I assume) and then do some of the roadwork/platform installation (which, at only about 10 or 12 stops, EW; could be done in about a year). And if they're "saving money" by using 40' buses then there wouldn't need to be any maintenance facilities they could just use existing.

I'm not buying it. Again, the point of BRT is to have an available bus, frequently, along the designated 'high-speed' corridor. It is for this reason why EVERY other transit agency with BRT has chosen articulated buses - they provide flexibility so that seating is always AVAILABLE when the bus arrives. And they're getting a federal grant and probably some MAPS funds - why not go and build the next mode of transit correct? Articulated buses also allow for greater use of driver resources since one driver could haul 100+ pax in each bus!!!!

Good grief, does OKC have to half a$$ do everything?? Are they serious about building a transit audience? Build the darn new maintenance base for the BRT (which you'll need to do anyway) and buy articulated buses. I'm a little less concerned about the curb cuts vs. dedicated lanes since OKC will take some time for the system to gain critical mass ridership to justify restricting lanes. But at least implement the darn thing correctly otherwise people will get the wrong idea, that the 40' bus is nothing more than the scheduled Embark bus that is scheduled to arrive every hour.

BTW, articulated buses are run in cities much more dense with roadwork must more constrained than OKC. I get tired of hearing these pissy complaints about overhead transit wires or articulated buses wont traverse OKCs otherwise completely WIDE streets. ... Come on, grow up OKC. If you're going to implement transit then do it the right way. Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time and $$ on something nobody will really use (isn't that the current worry in OKC about existing 40' buses - that they're for the homeless/poor? - why not differentiate the BRT like every other system worldwide does).

[Swalell1960]

Good grief, does OKC have to half a$$ do everything?? Are they serious about building a transit audience? Build the darn new maintenance base for the BRT (which you'll need to do anyway) and buy articulated buses. I'm a little less concerned about the curb cuts vs. dedicated lanes since OKC will take some time for the system to gain critical mass ridership to justify restricting lanes. But at least implement the darn thing correctly otherwise people will get the wrong idea, that the 40' bus is nothing more than the scheduled Embark bus that is scheduled to arrive every hour.

The infrastructure nerd in me always seems to trump the sensible public expenditure side of me. I would love to see catenary wires over Classen, and articulated buses on dedicated lanes. I'd also like to see the streetcar system expanding to something truly impactful, but that's obvious. Norman, Edmond.

And I wish Tulsa would catch up on their transit thinking. If there were a practical rail connection between the 405 and the 918 I would be fully supportive of that, but the existing RoW is an absurdity of twists and turns and wholly unsuited for passenger rail traffic, at least rail traffic whose mission is moving people in a meaningfully timely fashion from one place to the other.

[shawnw]

I'm with you. I've had these same conversations with almost every Embark official at every public meeting for years now. But I also ride the bus in Oklahoma City every day and have ridden almost every route. We've got a long way to go to fill any bus. It doesn't matter how sexy a bus is, its launch will not be like the streetcar, crowds wise. It will be a more gradual adoption. We just need to get this thing online. There's nothing that says we can't evolve things once they're online. Once people believe in it, Once the two additional BRT lines proposed in MAPS 4 are online. Once the RTA is running strong. Etc.

[shawnw]

It's hybrid at best, which I hate, and which I've made clear to folks I've talked to (that a fancier regular bus is not enough), but they ARE pushing hard on the TSP, so hopefully the timing experience will at least be better.

[the michigander]

I dont think the brt route is long enough I think the route should start at belle isle walmart and go to walmart on council most people who would need a nwe bus would need it past meridian that's where most if the housing and jobs are.

[shawnw]

At the open house I made this point with every Embark person I could get to listen. Needs to go to Macarthur at a minimum but farther is better. Still needs to go to downtown though for route connectivity.

[Pete]

Yesterday, I noticed a BRT stop almost complete on Classen, the first one I've seen.

The permits have been filed for the rest and we should start seeing them pop up along the route.

[unfundedrick]

Yesterday, I noticed a BRT stop almost complete on Classen, the first one I've seen.

The permits have been filed for the rest and we should start seeing them pop up along the route.

2 new stops are almost complete on each side of 63rd Street at Meridian.

[HFAA Alum]

I do hope that the city will further invest in mass transit. If anything, the reliance of vehicular travel will drastically decrease, making pedestrian traffic safer and reducing gridlock. If we don't invest in this opportunity now, we will look like Boston in about 10 years.

I'm sure you can ask anyone from that area, the Big Dig managed to give the city back to it's citizens, but the traffic is still an abysmal nightmare with their relatively weak mass transit system.

[shartel_ave]

I do hope that the city will further invest in mass transit. If anything, the reliance of vehicular travel will drastically decrease, making pedestrian traffic safer and reducing gridlock. If we don't invest in this opportunity now, we will look like Boston in about 10 years.

I'm sure you can ask anyone from that area, the Big Dig managed to give the city back to it's citizens, but the traffic is still an abysmal nightmare with their relatively weak mass transit system.

OKC "rush hour" is the best rush hour out of any large city I have lived in. The amount of highways and tolls is amazing and the city being built on a grid with zero water on either side and 1.13k people per square mile.

Boston is a mess and does not have a grid system and water on one side of the entire city plus it has 14K people per square mile, OKC will never be like boston.

OKC was built for automobiles. The worst city for traffic I have lived in was Seattle having water on both sides of it and 8.75K people per square mile

[Pete]

Press release:

****************

MAPS 4 seeks public input for Bus Rapid Transit study
12/22/2022

The City of Oklahoma City is inviting residents to weigh in on advanced transit options in person and by taking an online survey at MAPS4BRT.com. MAPS 4 includes $61 million to build two additional Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) lines in South and Northeast Oklahoma City.

BRT is a high-quality, bus-based transit service that operates similar to light rail. To achieve rapid service, BRT may include dedicated traffic lanes, traffic signal prioritization (TSP), and fewer stops with elevated platforms with enhanced stations. Combined, these characteristics allow BRT lines to minimize traffic delays and maximize service quality – making BRT an ideal alternative to traveling during high traffic times of day in a single occupant vehicle.

MAPS 4 launched a map survey and a written survey to inform the planning process to gain a high-level understanding of community transportation needs in South and Northeast OKC. Both surveys are available in English and Spanish.

Results from the survey will help determine future BRT corridors based on commuter corridors planned by the Regional Transportation Authority of Central Oklahoma, the RAPID NW BRT line currently under construction by EMBARK, flow of traffic on major street arterials, travel time, and key destinations. Recommendations will be informed by public input gathered from survey results, pop-up events and public meetings.

Two public open house meetings will be held in January 2023. Spanish-speaking interpreters will be available:

Tuesday, Jan. 24 from 4:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. at Metro Tech Springlake Campus, Room H (1900 Springlake Dr. Oklahoma City, OK 73111) - Location is served by bus routes 3 and 22
Thursday, Jan. 26 from 4:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. at Capitol Hill Library, Room 2 (327 SW 27th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73109) - Location is served by bus routes 11, 14, and 40
The project budget for MAPS 4 Transit is $97 million, with $67 million for advanced transit options including BRT, park-and-ride facilities and micro transit. Additionally, the Transit project includes planned growth, bus stop improvements and enhanced EMBARK bus service.

“The goal for the MAPS 4 BRT Alternatives Analysis is to understand the community’s priorities and values to gain insight into our transportation needs and involve the public in the process of creating a more connected community,” MAPS 4 Program Manager David Todd said. “Bus Rapid Transit can help address gaps in our public transit system and connecting key destinations in Oklahoma City with a higher level of transit service. This will better the lives of our residents and visitors by improving economic development and commuter access, so we are looking forward to gathering input and moving forward with the project.”

Residents can stay up to date on the MAPS 4 Transit project at okc.gov/maps4. Learn more about BRT and take the survey at MAPS4BRT.com.

[Pete]

They just posted this timeline to their social media accounts:

[josefromtulsa]

the south BRT has so much potential. I really hope they put it down Walker on a dedicated ROW. If walker was closed off to cars they could easily take other roads to get where they need to.

[BoulderSooner]

the south BRT has so much potential. I really hope they put it down Walker on a dedicated ROW. If walker was closed off to cars they could easily take other roads to get where they need to.

all of the business' on walker might have a different opinion

[Mississippi Blues]

all of the business' on walker might have a different opinion

All of the business on Walker would disagree that cars could easily take other roads to get where they need to?

[BoulderSooner]

All of the business on Walker would disagree that cars could easily take other roads to get where they need to?

they would not be ok with the form of transit that 99% of their customers use being banned from their street ..

[Mississippi Blues]

they would not be ok with the form of transit that 99% of their customers use being banned from their street ..

There’s other streets. How familiar are you with Walker from south of the river to about Grand?

[josefromtulsa]

they would not be ok with the form of transit that 99% of their customers use being banned from their street ..

Very much a fair point but id argue most of the businesses could be accessed by side streets. But as a compromise I would argue then just for walker from sw29th down to sw 59th be for busses only. and the rest of the route open for mixed traffic.

[chssooner]

All of the business on Walker would disagree that cars could easily take other roads to get where they need to?

Yeah, going 100 to 0 on cars is not have you get transit up and running. It's how you get so much backlash, it is counterproductive.

[Mississippi Blues]

Yeah, going 100 to 0 on cars is not have you get transit up and running. It's how you get so much backlash, it is counterproductive.

You read my reply to Jose then, yeah?

[Mississippi Blues]

the south BRT has so much potential. I really hope they put it down Walker on a dedicated ROW. If walker was closed off to cars they could easily take other roads to get where they need to.

You might already be thinking this given your apparent familiarity with transit, but I feel like it would need to start out with certain times/days as some iteration of an express bus at peak ridership times before it would be considered as a dedicated busway thoroughfare. I do think Walker is probably the most ready to adapt to that and given the plaza going in on Harvey between 24th and 25th, south side leadership has shown it is willing and looking to make the area for the community to take pride in being part of.

[Cocaine]

Will any of the brt lines currently being planned be easily upgradable to lrt in the future? Or will the lines other than the north west line use EV busses? This actually isn't a bad start but it seems like it was built for 2005 instead of 2025.