Boardwalk at Bricktown / Dream Hotel

[Sooner.Arch]

I am not a fan of that design, it seems like a party club instead of a hotel

It's Miami, what do u expect. Although I will say a lot of the dream hotels are so over the top in the architectural design that they almost look like something from a company that dreamed too big and ended in bankruptcy. Haha dreamed too big, boy do I make myself laugh.

[soonerguru]

Attachment 17262Attachment 17263Attachment 17264
https://floridayimby.com/2021/12/mv-...own-miami.html

Thought Id share this
The development is projected to break ground in 2022 and be completed by 2025.

Love it!

[Plutonic Panda]

Love it!

I do too. That design is beautiful. If OKC can get anything similar it will be one of the best looking buildings in the city.

[ChrisHayes]

Any updates?

[AlvarezK]

Hey Pete any new updates?

[Pete]

No, no movement in a while.

I suspect they are preparing their construction drawings which will then have to be approved by design review.

[ChrisHayes]

Any updates on this? I've been incredibly anxious to see what they're proposing, and it's kind of a downer it's taking so long. Especially when they want to be up and running within a couple years.

[Pete]

I suspect we'll see a formal submission for design review in the next few months.

Until then, I'm sure lots is happening in terms of planning, financing and engineering.

[dcsooner]

I suspect we'll see a formal submission for design review in the next few months.

Until then, I'm sure lots is happening in terms of planning, financing and engineering.

Lol

[HOT ROD]

why lol DC?

[dcsooner]

why lol DC?

I have consistently lampooned the grandiose plans proffered by OKC leadership over the years. There have been so many promised large projects that have failed to materialize that I view these announcements with skepticism. Hope I’m wrong

[Rover]

Lol

I take it you never done any real development. Otherwise the LOL doesn’t make any sense. You don’t just make a few pretty drawings and then break ground and have it built a few month later.

[shawnw]

The civil engineering firm has a signed contract. This is no joke.

[Laramie]

Just curious D. C. Sooner about your comment 'Lol' and not trying to pile on: What promised large projects that have failed to materialize that you view these announcements with skepticism. (Hope I’m wrong). [Note: There's a difference between a 'promise vs a wish list.]

Which 'promised large projects. . . ' name a few and who promised them.

[Bellaboo]

The Lumber Yard was a wish list fishing expedition. The only ones that I can think of that might fit this criteria was the replacement for the theatre just west of the Myriad Gardens. And that group was after huge incentives.

[Bellaboo]

Bump. Any news on this project ?

[Pete]

Nothing to see, but my understanding is this is still moving forward (financing, design, etc.).

[ChrisHayes]

Nothing to see, but my understanding is this is still moving forward (financing, design, etc.).

I've been wondering about this. I've about given up hope. lol I was expecting to see designs come out by now. Especially with the timeline they gave.

[Pete]

I've been wondering about this. I've about given up hope. lol I was expecting to see designs come out by now. Especially with the timeline they gave.

I'm sure there are a bunch of behind-the-scenes meetings with the city, especially regarding incentives.

[Swake]

I'm sure there are a bunch of behind-the-scenes meetings with the city, especially regarding incentives.

Incentives? How? It's two blocks from the Omni, which has a non-compete on city incentives for hotels.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
Besides hotel, the prospective development involves residential and some mixed use. TIF could be applied to those portions. The item that seems most obvious for incentive would be the structured parking. If parking there were made publicly available it would especially qualify, I believe.

[Pete]

Incentives? How? It's two blocks from the Omni, which has a non-compete on city incentives for hotels.

There are also condos, common areas, parking structures, restaurant space, etc.

[Pete]

^^^^^^^^
Besides hotel, the prospective development involves residential and some mixed use. TIF could be applied to those portions. The item that seems most obvious for incentive would be the structured parking. If parking there were made publicly available it would especially qualify, I believe.

There are no real parameters on what qualifies for TIF.

There is this Omni exclusion of hotels getting TIF within a limited distance, but otherwise it can be used for anything. TIF is just a broad grant to a project and the developers can spend it any way they seem fit.

[Urbanized]

You continue to characterize it as nothing but a gift; free money simply handed over to developers with no strategy or controls. I understand that you simply don’t care much for TIF, but this characterization is not a fair one. From the website of The Alliance For Economic Development:

Tax increment financing districts are an economic tool to promote development in blighted, underserved, or economically distressed urban areas. TIF helps fund new economic growth that will attract new investors, consumers and employers into the area.
​
TIF monies can be allocated in two ways:
​

• The city can construct public improvements (parking, infrastructure, streetscape, and/or landscaping improvements) on publicly owned land or easements
• The developer, or redeveloper, can receive an allocation of TIF revenues to fund eligible TIF project costs in the form of “assistance in development financing” upon meeting conditions to the allocation

In the case of this particular development, TIF would most likely be applied to infrastructure, ie street reconfiguration, drainage, public amenities such as sidewalks plus publicly-available parking.

This is a VERY appropriate usage when you consider the public funds typically used when accommodating (already much cheaper) suburban development in the fringes of the city (roads, sewer and on and on).

The second bullet point applies to TIF usage clearly of the “but for” variety. That is, the development would be considered desirable by the City - stabilizing, restorative, expected to spark new development and/or ancillary tax collections - but would be unfeasible but for public assistance.

Perhaps the best example of this would be First National, which had LESS THAN zero chance of redevelopment BUT FOR extensive public assistance.

Another great example would be Criterion, which would almost certainly still be an empty lot had TIF not helped them overcome the additional construction expense driven by restrictive Bricktown Urban Design District requirements. The City decided that providing enough assistance to make a properly-designed building financially viable for the stated purpose had a long-term community benefit.

Listen, I’m not trying to say that TIF is beyond reproach. I think it is always a good idea to continue to take a hard look at how public money is spent. But continuing to characterize it as basically free money for rich guys does a disservice to honest discourse.

[Pete]

^

I've never, ever said I "don't care for TIF" or that it's "free money for rich guys"; It's just that there is so much misinformation about it.

The public infrastructure bullet point is how the CITY can use TIF.

The second bullet point actually says exactly what I stated: a developer can use the money in any way they seem fit, which was exactly my point. They merely submit a spreadsheet that shows they can't obtain all the financing they need to do a project, if all the powers that be agree, they get the money and then spend it.

BTW, all developers put some hard money into a deal, as you can't get 100% financing just like that isn't possible in buying a house. So the "gap" could be that they just don't want to put any more hard money in the deal, which is exactly what happens in most real estate development and the reason why 99.9% of new developments don't need TIF or other incentives.