Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[Midtowner]

Yes, we should bring in pumps and leave Canton with a dry hole.

OKC shall have green lawns and the ability to water our streets in a drought while turning NW OK into a wasteland.

[MarkAFuqua]

You're being just a little bit melodramatic here.

Canton was built for one purpose--to hold water for the use of OKC. It's being used for that purpose. Locals need to be thankful they were provided that lake and its use in the good years.

Is there no truth or fact checking mandated for reporting anymore??!! Channels 4, 5 and 9 all got it wrong!
Let's get some facts straight that the major news outlets are reporting incorrectly!

Marsha Slaughter with the Oklahoma
City Water Utilities Trust has stated only 200,000 residents depend on the water from
Lake Hefner which gets it's water from Canton Lake. Where did this 1.2 million figure come from?? 1.2 million is the entirety of the population of the metro area and we all know
they don't all depend on Canton Lake/Hefner water for their drinking. This is a highly inflated figure to make this draw look more necessary to the public, than it actually is..

Why aren't you mentioning the 40,000 acre feet that is currently in Lake Hefner that would have gotten the people who rely on Canton/Hefner water by until late spring early summer??

This draw was not necessary at this time! All the Canton Lake Assn asked for was that you try and get us into spring and see if any spring rains would alleviate the severity of this situation, so that perhaps all the fish in our lake could survive and not die which is very likely to happen in the summer due to this draw of water.

Once you take the water from Canton it's gone and we can't get it back, and it's highly unlikely rains will come out west due to the drought, but the odds of OKC receiving the needed rainfall to help put water in Hefner are much greater. Over a 30 year period Canadian county averaged 9 more inches annually than Woodward County in western Oklahoma, so who do you think has the better odds of receiving the much needed spring rains?? It always rains a lot more between Watonga and OKC than it does out west of Canton to refill our lake.

Further more please stop spreading the untruth that Canton was built for OKC water storage!! That is an easy statement to disprove. Mrs. Regan should be ashamed of herself for implying that to the reporter and coercing her to lie on live TV. The FACT is, the city of Enid had some limited storage rights for a good many years after the lake was built and it wasn't for quite some time until OKC received any water rights in Canton at all.

And please stop using the term "drinking water" until you mandate no outside watering!! Unless you count the grass and trees "drinking" while they are dormant! You are again slanting the story to sound more severe on your end so you can justify the damage you are doing on this end in Western Oklahoma.

What a shame, the innocent people in the communities that surround Canton Lake are getting ready to pay dearly for the sins of those in power in OKC, who have not educated the people that there is a severe water crisis on the very near horizon. It's no longer on the horizon for the people of Canton and surrounding towns, it's now here with the begin of this release. It will be severe in areas of OKC soon enough if spring rains don't come. The people of OKC are good people, but nobody has told them how serious this situation is so they haven't changed their water practices to start conserving. The people in authority have done a disservice to the people of OKC and greatly to the people who rely on Canton Lake for their lively hood. This could have all been avoided or at least put off for several months or years had those in power shared the need for conservation a year or two ago when the drought started instead of waiting until it was a dire situation. Shame on you leaders, shame on you.

[MarkAFuqua]

There will be a need.

I just want to know what the plan is, if they even have a plan for a much worse situation.

I can tell you what the plan is, they plan to dump sewage into Hefner and retreat it....won't that make for some nice boating?? Can you imagine the stench for those running and biking around the lake? To quote cousin Eddie on Christmas Vacation...."Really nice Clark, really nice!"

[MarkAFuqua]

It just feels weird to have people from NW OK scolding us on water conservation and how we decided to use our water.

No one is scolding, just trying to educate the folks about a bad situation that didn't have to happen. I don't believe for one minute that the fine folks of OKC would intentionally do harm to the people of Western OK. I do feel that those in power have not done their due diligence in educating their water patrons of the severity of this issue so we are trying to do that. We will pay now for their lack of effort in educating, the people who rely on Hefner/Canton water will pay later if it doesn't rain. Praying for rain.

[law]

I understand your concern but your obvious exaggerations don't help your position. The lake has a capacity of 111,000 acre feet. Is it 2/3 empty now?

Whether it was built for Oklahoma City's water supply really isn't the issue.

Prove any exaggerations. From the Corps page on current Canton Lake status "At this elevation the total amount of water stored in Canton Lake is 49279 acre-feet."

The draw is 30,000 acre-feet. Canton's capacity WAS 111,000. The actual capacity today is unknown. No silt studies have been done since 1977. The actual capacity may only be 90,000 acre feet. Besides, Canton was already very low before this draw, you were not starting at 111,000.

So YES, Canton Lake BEFORE the draw was slightly above 2/3 empty. Within the next few days, it will be at 2/3rds empty, and this draw is expected to last around 2 weeks.

The Corps have said they do not know if the entire amount can be drawn, we are in unknown conditions. The Corps have said you are done after this draw until the lake refills to drawable level. These are facts not exaggerations.

[Snowman]

No one is scolding, just trying to educate the folks about a bad situation that didn't have to happen. I don't believe for one minute that the fine folks of OKC would intentionally do harm to the people of Western OK. I do feel that those in power have not done their due diligence in educating their water patrons of the severity of this issue so we are trying to do that. We will pay now for their lack of effort in educating, the people who rely on Hefner/Canton water will pay later if it doesn't rain. Praying for rain.

What percentage of people reading this thread do you really think did not know we had a problem?

[MarkAFuqua]

What percentage of people reading this thread do you really think did not know we had a problem?

I am not sure and that would be pure speculation on my part, but I feel a large percentage of them didn't know how serious it was and how it was going to devastate economies and ruin a lake in Western OK for many years.

[law]

What percentage of people reading this thread do you really think did not know we had a problem?

What percentage do you think know the problem?

[OSUFan]

Do the people of the surrounding communities get their drinking water from Canton Lake?

[law]

Do the people of the surrounding communities get their drinking water from Canton Lake?

No. Canton uses wells west of town. The ground water here is poor quality.

[MarkAFuqua]

Do the people of the surrounding communities get their drinking water from Canton Lake?

Are you trying to imply that the water from Canton Lake that has been wasted over the last two years all went to drinking water?? Such as dormant grass and trees "drinking" it as it sprayed out of auto sprinklers that are still running today? I guess I am confused...

[Dubya61]

What percentage of people reading this thread do you really think did not know we had a problem?

Anybody who was reading and believing BoulderSooner's placation that there is no water problem in Oklahoma City.

[OSUFan]

Are you trying to imply that the water from Canton Lake that has been wasted over the last two years all went to drinking water?? Such as dormant grass and trees "drinking" it as it sprayed out of auto sprinklers that are still running today? I guess I am confused...

Where did I say anything even remotely close to what you are implying? I asked a simple question that I did not know that answer too.

[MarkAFuqua]

Where did I say anything even remotely close to what you are implying? I asked a simple question that I did not know that answer too.

I apologize, I thought you were saying because it's "drinking water" as they say on the news, it was more important for OKC to have it and the fact of the matter is we all know it's not just drinking water. Again, sorry for the confusion I am just really irritated by the way it's being portrayed in the media. To answer your question, no communities out here use the lake for drinking water.

[MarkAFuqua]

Where did I say anything even remotely close to what you are implying? I asked a simple question that I did not know that answer too.

I apologize, I thought you were saying because it's "drinking water" as they say on the news, it was more important for OKC to have it and the fact of the matter is we all know it's not just drinking water. Again, sorry for the confusion I am just really irritated by the way it's being portrayed in the media. To answer your question, no communities out here use the lake for drinking water.

[MarkAFuqua]

I'm just not looking forward to seeing a dry lake bed and dead fish skeletons everywhere.... :-(

[ou48A]

I know it’s controversial….. but we probably need to take a hard look at cloud seeding.

[Midtowner]

Further more please stop spreading the untruth that Canton was built for OKC water storage!! That is an easy statement to disprove. Mrs. Regan should be ashamed of herself for implying that to the reporter and coercing her to lie on live TV. The FACT is, the city of Enid had some limited storage rights for a good many years after the lake was built and it wasn't for quite some time until OKC received any water rights in Canton at all.

My house was built to house some folks with the last name of London. I live there now and own the place. Do I care that my house was built by the Londons? Not a whit. Lake Canton was built as a reservoir lake for the City of Enid. OKC later purchased those rights after Enid, which is generally a terribly run city, failed to make payments. It doesn't matter why the lake was built. Now OKC owns those rights and has the right to utilize them whether you like it or not. What is Canton losing? A recreational lake. What's the harm? A few businesses which were built depending on the existence of something which wasn't meant to support their recreational uses, but rather to make sure I can keep a green lawn in the middle of the summer.

And please stop using the term "drinking water" until you mandate no outside watering!! Unless you count the grass and trees "drinking" while they are dormant! You are again slanting the story to sound more severe on your end so you can justify the damage you are doing on this end in Western Oklahoma.

[quote]I plan on watering my lawn this summer as much as humanly possible. I paid good money for an automatic sprinkler system which covers both my yard and flower gardens and I fully intend to have one of the greener yards on my street.

If you don't like it, move to my neighborhood, we have a couple of houses for sale.

What a shame, the innocent people in the communities that surround Canton Lake are getting ready to pay dearly for the sins of those in power in OKC, who have not educated the people that there is a severe water crisis on the very near horizon. It's no longer on the horizon for the people of Canton and surrounding towns, it's now here with the begin of this release. It will be severe in areas of OKC soon enough if spring rains don't come. The people of OKC are good people, but nobody has told them how serious this situation is so they haven't changed their water practices to start conserving. The people in authority have done a disservice to the people of OKC and greatly to the people who rely on Canton Lake for their lively hood. This could have all been avoided or at least put off for several months or years had those in power shared the need for conservation a year or two ago when the drought started instead of waiting until it was a dire situation. Shame on you leaders, shame on you.

Oh please. What a bunch of crybabies. Folks in Western OK who engage in non-ranching agriculture or supply their cities and towns with groundwater and draw from the aquifer at a rate clearly greater than that of replenishment are certainly in no position to lecture anyone on water use.

[MarkAFuqua]

[QUOTE=Midtowner;614687]My house was built to house some folks with the last name of London. I live there now and own the place. Do I care that my house was built by the Londons? Not a whit. Lake Canton was built as a reservoir lake for the City of Enid. OKC later purchased those rights after Enid, which is generally a terribly run city, failed to make payments. It doesn't matter why the lake was built. Now OKC owns those rights and has the right to utilize them whether you like it or not. What is Canton losing? A recreational lake. What's the harm? A few businesses which were built depending on the existence of something which wasn't meant to support their recreational uses, but rather to make sure I can keep a green lawn in the middle of the summer.

I plan on watering my lawn this summer as much as humanly possible. I paid good money for an automatic sprinkler system which covers both my yard and flower gardens and I fully intend to have one of the greener yards on my street.

If you don't like it, move to my neighborhood, we have a couple of houses for sale.



Oh please. What a bunch of crybabies. Folks in Western OK who engage in non-ranching agriculture or supply their cities and towns with groundwater and draw from the aquifer at a rate clearly greater than that of replenishment are certainly in no position to lecture anyone on water use.

Wow, your compassion for all the business owners and their employees losing their lively hood is endless, you must be a really popular person...I only wish I were as smart as you. I dare say if your family, friends or yourself owned businesses here you wouldn't be singing that tune. I get that it's hard to relate to that when you are the center of your own universe though. The depth of your personal sacrifice for your fellow man is simply astounding! What an individual.

[ou48A]

Folks in Western OK who engage in non-ranching agriculture or supply their cities and towns with groundwater and draw from the aquifer at a rate clearly greater than that of replenishment are certainly in no position to lecture anyone on water use.

The recharge rates are greater than the withdraw rates in most of western Oklahoma in the areas well east of the Ogallala aquifer.

I would say that anyone who arrogantly says they are going to water their lawn this summer “as much as humanly possible” such as Midtowner says, particularly when he has been shown to be wrong on facts, is in no position to lecture anyone on water use!

Yet on other threads he scolds anyone he can on pollution and energy use, yet he plans on being wasteful with water.
That’s sound about right for the guy who admires a man like Gene Stipe.

[law]

I plan on watering my lawn this summer as much as humanly possible. I paid good money for an automatic sprinkler system which covers both my yard and flower gardens and I fully intend to have one of the greener yards on my street.

As I said earlier, Good for you! Get rid of that water just as soon as you can! Water those gutters while it rains! The sooner you do that, the better off you'll all be!

[Midtowner]

Wow, your compassion for all the business owners and their employees losing their lively hood is endless, you must be a really popular person...I only wish I were as smart as you. I dare say if your family, friends or yourself owned businesses here you wouldn't be singing that tune. I get that it's hard to relate to that when you are the center of your own universe though. The depth of your personal sacrifice for your fellow man is simply astounding! What an individual.

If my house is swept away by a hurricane because it's beachfront property, am I a smart or stupid person if I rebuild on the beachfront?

If I build my livelihood around a lake which is wholly owned by some entity which has rights to all of the water and will exercise those rights in a drought, am I a smart or stupid person?

OKC shouldn't feel guilty. Canton is part of their water use plan and they are exercising it. If folks wanted to build livelihoods around the possibility that Canton would remain a great recreation lake despite the knowledge that the primary purpose of the lake is not recreation, that's on them. Not us. If Canton was in a similar situation and OKC was on the receiving end, do you imagine they'd behave any differently? If we didn't have any significant rain this spring and we never took that water, would the OKC government not instantly become very unpopular to its own citizens?

The fact is that folks in NW Oklahoma and SE Oklahoma need to understand that OKC, not Idabel and certainly not Canton is along with Tulsa, THE driver of this state's economy. If they like their schools and roads and bridges and county court systems and appellate courts and state agencies and whatnot, they need to realize that OKC and Tulsa have to exist to pay for those things and to provide two large marketplaces for the goods produced by rural communities. Part of that deal is that cities like OKC and Tulsa can't possibly store all of their own water and will have to collect water from elsewhere.

Running a state takes cooperation between rural and urban communities. It seems Canton wants all of the benefits of having OKC, but none of the costs.

[Bellaboo]

This has turned out to be a pissing contest, let's just all pray for rain and try to be a little more conservaitve.

[Bellaboo]

This has turned out to be a pissing contest, let's just all pray for rain and try to be a little more conservative.

[MarkAFuqua]

If my house is swept away by a hurricane because it's beachfront property, am I a smart or stupid person if I rebuild on the beachfront?

If I build my livelihood around a lake which is wholly owned by some entity which has rights to all of the water and will exercise those rights in a drought, am I a smart or stupid person?

OKC shouldn't feel guilty. Canton is part of their water use plan and they are exercising it. If folks wanted to build livelihoods around the possibility that Canton would remain a great recreation lake despite the knowledge that the primary purpose of the lake is not recreation, that's on them. Not us. If Canton was in a similar situation and OKC was on the receiving end, do you imagine they'd behave any differently? If we didn't have any significant rain this spring and we never took that water, would the OKC government not instantly become very unpopular to its own citizens?

The fact is that folks in NW Oklahoma and SE Oklahoma need to understand that OKC, not Idabel and certainly not Canton is along with Tulsa, THE driver of this state's economy. If they like their schools and roads and bridges and county court systems and appellate courts and state agencies and whatnot, they need to realize that OKC and Tulsa have to exist to pay for those things and to provide two large marketplaces for the goods produced by rural communities. Part of that deal is that cities like OKC and Tulsa can't possibly store all of their own water and will have to collect water from elsewhere.

Running a state takes cooperation between rural and urban communities. It seems Canton wants all of the benefits of having OKC, but none of the costs.

Your rant would be true and relevant to this topic if we were asking the delay be put off indefinitely, but as that is not the case your are wrong in your writing. I know full well the benefits that OKC and Tulsa bring to the state but you might also consider the oil and gas that comes from our part of the state might be rather large economic drivers as well?? We only asked Mrs. Slaughter and the OCWUT to hold off for 60 to 90 days before taking the release to let spring rains try and help relieve the issue. We only pointed out that if her organization would have done their jobs, and seen the effects of this drought which has long been forecast by professionals, that we wouldn't be where we are today. If they had educated on and perhaps mandated some water rationing this probably wouldn't be an issue right now. Everyone out here knows who has the water rights and that the city has the right to use them, we just wanted some good stewardship of the water and consideration of the damage that will be done to everyone out here. We are all people who come to the city to shop and spend money in that economic machine, so it's not like OKC survives on it's own. We are all from Oklahoma and depend on one another. The argument of leaving the water in Canton lake for a couple of more months, doesn't say we don't want any of the costs of having OKC. I just can't understand using your reserve before using what's in your own back yard. There is well over 4-5 months water stored in Hefner right now, all we were asking for was a couple. It would be like running a motorcycle on the reserve tank before flipping it to main, doesn't make sense especially when the main tank may be refilled much quicker than the reserve.