Devon Energy Center

[Steve]

Devon going up in that location is the result of other buildings coming down 30 yrs ago. As is the new library - a pretty nice addition to downtown in and of itself. It is the life of a city.

Well, yeah, you've got a point. But let's tell the rest of the story...

The tower is being built approximately where the Warner Theater and Beverly's restaurant were located. Would someone have fought to save the Warner Theater if it were standing today? You bet - it's history went back to Vaudville days and could trace its roots to the old Overholser Operahouse.
As for Beverly's? Cool little building, but I doubt it would have survived in any recognizable manner over 40 years.
The rest of the block is where you might find yourself losing in this parlor game - it was a rather plane jane parking garage.
But you have a point - not all building demolitions are wrong. The question is, does Oklahoma City want to see downtown mid-rises replaced with landscaped plazas? (and for those of you wanting to discuss this - go to the SandRidge thread and let this one focus on the auditorium)

[jmarkross]

[QUOTE=Steve;330570]Well, yeah, you've got a point. But let's tell the rest of the story...

The tower is being built approximately where the Warner Theater and Beverly's restaurant were located. Would someone have fought to save the Warner Theater if it were standing today? You bet - it's history went back to Vaudville days and could trace its roots to the old Overholser Operahouse.
As for Beverly's? Cool little building, but I doubt it would have survived in any recognizable manner over 40 years.

They laughed at me when I was a young person in 1969 working in the Colcord Building and was dining on a steaming "Tuna Tater" at lunch one day in Beverly's Diner--when I suddenly exclaimed--"there will be a giant skyscraper right here--one day!"...and now--they laugh no more!

[OKCisOK4me]

Just be glad its mankind causing the shake up & not mother nature, a la San Francisco 1916

[krisb]

I thought it was a multi-storied parking garage, but my eyes are not what they used to be. My bad.

They are presently adding on to that parking garage.

[jmarkross]

Just be glad its mankind causing the shake up & not mother nature, a la San Francisco 1916

Mr. Fahrquar, who managed the Colcord Building back in the 1960's, once told me the reason the OCURA moved there in 1969 was...(among other reasons) that building is so full of concrete--because the investors who built it were afraid of earthquakes shortly after the devastating 1906 SF earthquake--(they doubled the strength in it)--making it's demolition not worth what it would cost--and the building will be there forever--it could withstand just about any sort of disaster. And--she still sits there proudly, renovated and looking good 100 years later, solid as the rock she is.

[jbrown84]

It won't be a blank wall on Hudson--only Sheridan. See page 10 of the pdf above.

It's pretty hard for an auditorium not to have 2 blank sides. It's still better to have density on the corner, IMO.

[kinggober]

Just took these tonight. In the last pic it looks like they're stockpiling some concrete forms for the next floor.

[gen70]

Awesome pics. Goob, Thanks!

[Spartan]

Those are AWESOME pics. Here's one I took on my phone the other day:

[Larry OKC]

Devon going up in that location is the result of other buildings coming down 30 yrs ago. As is the new library - a pretty nice addition to downtown in and of itself. It is the life of a city.

So this is the ONLY sight where Devon could have built in all of downtown? Surely there are other locations that wouldn't have required the destruction of some other buildings that might be worthy of saving? (I am not against this or against Devon taking a parking garage and doing something useful with the space, just the idea that we had to destroy buildings 30 years ago so this could happen).

[Larry OKC]

By the way, did the thread wires get crossed? I had clicked on the thread about the Devon auditorium and it keeps bringing me to the "Devon Tower: officially under Construction" one....

[jmarkross]

So this is the ONLY sight where Devon could have built in all of downtown? Surely there are other locations that wouldn't have required the destruction of some other buildings that might be worthy of saving? (I am not against this or against Devon taking a parking garage and doing something useful with the space, just the idea that we had to destroy buildings 30 years ago so this could happen).

When I worked at OCURA, many of the buildings that were demolished were targeted because they were either unsafe, or built in a way that made reinforcing prohibitively expensive--if not completely impractical. Remember, OKC was built very quickly after the Land Run in 1889...and a quick-buck was the rule. There has always been a fairly decent amount of concern for history--but--everything torn down is not always the filthy hands of evil capitalists seeking to wipe out history. OCURA identified and tried to preserve as much as was possible...it is just that due to the way it was built so very quickly--all of the sudden--OKC had that problem--Bricktown is a testament of trying to preserve as much as they could.

[OKCisOK4me]

When I worked at OCURA, many of the buildings that were demolished were targeted because they were either unsafe, or built in a way that made reinforcing prohibitively expensive--if not completely impractical. Remember, OKC was built very quickly after the Land Run in 1889...and a quick-buck was the rule. There has always been a fairly decent amount of concern for history--but--everything torn down is not always the filthy hands of evil capitalists seeking to wipe out history. OCURA identified and tried to preserve as much as was possible...it is just that due to the way it was built so very quickly--all of the sudden--OKC had that problem--Bricktown is a testament of trying to preserve as much as they could.

Conspiracy theory nut concept in 3, 2, 1......

[jmarkross]

Intersting picture you took Spartan, the composition on a gloomy day was fascinating...

[Troypin]

In the last picture whats that giant blue thing there putting together?

[Steve]

When I worked at OCURA, many of the buildings that were demolished were targeted because they were either unsafe, or built in a way that made reinforcing prohibitively expensive--if not completely impractical. Remember, OKC was built very quickly after the Land Run in 1889...and a quick-buck was the rule. There has always been a fairly decent amount of concern for history--but--everything torn down is not always the filthy hands of evil capitalists seeking to wipe out history. OCURA identified and tried to preserve as much as was possible...it is just that due to the way it was built so very quickly--all of the sudden--OKC had that problem--Bricktown is a testament of trying to preserve as much as they could.

No conspiracy theory here. Some of what Jmark says is correct - there were a lot of bad, blighted and less than historic buildings torn down. But let's not romanticize OCURA too much now... I'm not a basher and I've been someone trying to set some records straight. The Hales Building was a perfect example of clearance out of control and did not reflect on effort to "preserve what they could." By all accounts it had been modernized, kept in good shape, and yet because it was in the 1964 Pei Plan, it had to go, no further discussion allowed... and then the site went undeveloped until the early 1990s when the IRS building was erected in its place. Bricktown is a testament to Neal Horton's efforts, and the city had its sights set on razing it as well.
I'm sorry if this sounds hostile, Jmark - in fact, I'd like to meet you. But what you're saying in this comment - intentionally or not - is very different from recorded, documented history.

[jbrown84]

I agree with Steve. OCURA may have started out only targeting truly unsalvageable buildings, but I mean, the entire Galleria block?? They all just happened to be shoddy rushed construction? I don't think so. Not everything demolished was built in 1889-1900. I imagine very, very little of it.

[jmarkross]

I agree with Steve. OCURA may have started out only targeting truly unsalvageable buildings, but I mean, the entire Galleria block?? They all just happened to be shoddy rushed construction? I don't think so. Not everything demolished was built in 1889-1900. I imagine very, very little of it.

Many factors come into play. Most of all--hindsight is so much clearer than foresight. Otherwise...we would have had a hodge-podge of odd buildings here and there, big holes here and there. One must remember this was the 1960's...and the point of view at that time is different than today. The concepts of city planning and aesthetics were much different then. The people who put all this together--made what you are seeing today happen. Otherwise, OKC would look like a dozen other medium-size cities wandering in the wilderness...looking for good things to happen to them. My only point is--it is so easy to look at everything and decide what one does not like here and there--nit-picking as one goes through the museum of life. It is quite another thing to make things happen as these people did--remember too--this was done through the absolute morass of governmental re-tape and regulations that made very move twice as hard. These planners had endless meetings and conferences getting all opinions they could--ad naseum. The acquisition of land itself was a nightmare beyond compare. The bottom line is--they gave it their best shot, trying to keep all parties well represented and respected. While one can find the occasional building here and there they wish was still there...I doubt that any of these same people would have given a penny to make that happen and support it. I have lived long enough to be more than familiar with those who do absolutely nothing to make improvements to the world, yet somehow feel a sense of indignation at any thing they disagree with. The people at OCURA did a marvelous job--still do. It was not easy. They, at least, deserve a fair shake and not the critical musings of those who did not approve of this or that.

[jmarkross]

I agree with Steve. OCURA may have started out only targeting truly unsalvageable buildings, but I mean, the entire Galleria block?? They all just happened to be shoddy rushed construction? I don't think so. Not everything demolished was built in 1889-1900. I imagine very, very little of it.

Not particularly "rushed" construction....brick buildings, unreinforced, wooden infrastructure, poor design from the older days...a myriad of reasons. Texas Stadium was built in the 1960's--where is it now? The King Dome in Seattle? It is always fascinating when people want some place or another "immortalized"--like it was the Acropolis or the Coliseum. It might surprise some--that there is not a giant secret group that destroys things just for the carnal pleasure of watching them collapse. No one seems hurt that the Biltmore Hotel (later--Sheraton-Oklahoma) was blown up--I watched it happen. Being a big, wide building, no one wanted to buy it or renovate it and it would be a money-pit to maintain...or just let it be empty and look like Detroit. Look at the Skirvin Tower. OCURA went to bat for that place many times, and saved it. No decision is easy and no one has ever taken it lightly in OKC. There are good reasons in each circumstance. I would suggest anyone who feels differently contact OCURA and ask them about the particulars. They would be glad to elucidate on it. I saw them try to find ways to save many buildings--and could not. It is one thing to not try...it is another to try and not be successful.

[jmarkross]

No conspiracy theory here. Some of what Jmark says is correct - there were a lot of bad, blighted and less than historic buildings torn down. But let's not romanticize OCURA too much now... I'm not a basher and I've been someone trying to set some records straight. The Hales Building was a perfect example of clearance out of control and did not reflect on effort to "preserve what they could." By all accounts it had been modernized, kept in good shape, and yet because it was in the 1964 Pei Plan, it had to go, no further discussion allowed... and then the site went undeveloped until the early 1990s when the IRS building was erected in its place. Bricktown is a testament to Neal Horton's efforts, and the city had its sights set on razing it as well.
I'm sorry if this sounds hostile, Jmark - in fact, I'd like to meet you. But what you're saying in this comment - intentionally or not - is very different from recorded, documented history.

What does one do with a building that no one will buy, no one will renovate, no one will rent or use if someone does? Just leave it there? Maybe a big flea-market on the ground floor and a flophouse on the upper floors? That is the reality that was going on in those times. Downtowns are about business...it is why they exist. Eveyone would like to keep things up and maintained--until they get the bill! Do you drive the same car you bought when you bought your first one? You could have fixed it up, replaced worn parts, had it painted, re-upholstered. But--did you? We live in an impractical time currently...with romantic ideas everywhere. People would love that old Galleria District...and, for a couple of years, it would be trendy and people would hang out and have yogurt. Then...it would be less popular and a whole lot of money would be invested and lost. Heating and air-conditioning alone can change the rules today.

[redland]

The Hales Building was a perfect example of clearance out of control and did not reflect on effort to "preserve what they could." By all accounts it had been modernized, kept in good shape, and yet because it was in the 1964 Pei Plan, it had to go, no further discussion allowed... and then the site went undeveloped until the early 1990s when the IRS building was erected in its place.

While it has nothing to do with the point you are making in your post, the IRS building is sout of Main Stree, and I believe the Hales Building was north of Main (northwest corner of Main and Robinson)

[jmarkross]

The best place I know of online for dowtown OKC info is: Downtown Oklahoma City Map & Buildings

[mburlison]

Those are AWESOME pics. Here's one I took on my phone the other day:

Nice for a phone pic ! My HTC Hero does okay, but the lighting almost a little too sensitive sometimes.

[vandy]

I will try to make it to the site tomorrow for a few pictures. Any requests on angles? No promises, but I'll see what I can do.

[jmarkross]

Your eye for photos is great, Vandy--surprise us!