Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[warreng88]

How is that handled when it is city owned property? Sent out for RFP? Is the site itself sold off to a developer?

[Pete]

How is that handled when it is city owned property? Sent out for RFP? Is the site itself sold off to a developer?

There would have to be an RFP process for the Paycom site since it's owned by the City.

[Laramie]

You guys (bombermwc and jdross1982) summed up the advantages OKC will have keeping Paycom Center
and building the new arena on the 4-square block old cox PSM site.

The Big XII conference basketball (Men & Women) can host both tournaments. We will have enough quality hotels downtown and eating places in Bricktown as well as the hotels themselves to pull off the Big XII (Baylor, BYU, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, and West Virginia).





.

[BoulderSooner]

You guys (bombermwc and jdross1982) summed up the advantages OKC will have keeping Paycom Center
and building the new arena on the 4-square block old cox PSM site.

The Big XII conference basketball (Men & Women) can host both tournaments. We will have enough quality hotels downtown and eating places in Bricktown as well as the hotels themselves to pull off the Big XII (Baylor, BYU, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, and West Virginia).


.

with no OU and KC being the legacy host .. i doubt big 12 basketball ever returns to OKC

[Just the facts]

When is this new arena supposed to be constructed?

[SEMIweather]

with no OU and KC being the legacy host .. i doubt big 12 basketball ever returns to OKC

Exactly. OKC will be lucky if we ever get the Big XII Baseball Tournament back here. Though I'm guessing that at least softball will probably stay.

[warreng88]

When is this new arena supposed to be constructed?

My understanding is it should go to vote in December. Thunder signed a new lease through 2026. If it passes, I would guess it would be several years and they might have to extend the lease until the new arena is built.

[BDP]

Demoing one is a massive cost to the city as we lose the benefit of having plots of land in the core of downtown, ready to absorb any new arena construction for all time. While it's there, we have the benefit of having a 1st and 2nd arena to work TOGETHER and not against each other. We can host the Big 12 Basketball Men's AND Women's tournaments next door to each other in top class conditions for BOTH groups. Graduation season means we have the ability to host multiples at the same time. If we have a second tier of a sport come in like not the NHL, then the Paycom is where they will play to save money. Concerts/Events that want the space but the lower cost can go to the Paycom and not feel like second class citizens like they did at the Myriad.

These are interesting ideas, for sure, but maintaining an arena without an anchor tenant for graduations and some concerts is a massive cost as well. It will definitely feel 2nd class unless it is maintained and updated to first class standing. And if it is possible to upgrade and maintain Paycom as a first class arena, then there's no need for a new one, right?

Given the fact that they have already pulled back on some upgrades and maintenance on Paycom with eyes to a new arena, I would imagine that over that 20-30 year period it's going to feel more and more like a bigger myriad than a first class arena for graduations. Hopefully, the new arena is where the concerts go, anyway. That should be a consideration in design and I imagine the logistics will be so much better that many touring productions today would never pick a maybe slightly cheaper night at Paycom over a modern and up to date facility.

The Thunder is not a hinderance to scheduling the events you mention into the arena they play in. It's only like 45 nights max, depending on the preseason schedule. It's not even a hindrance to adding an NHL team, which I imagine would definitely not want to play in "arena B". So, the current arena basically has 320 nights without the Thunder. With another arena that would be 685 nights of two 18k arena's across the street from each other to book. I really don't think there's that much demand. We'd basically be paying to maintain a mostly dark building and whatever might get booked there is only taking events away from the building we just spent hundreds of millions of dollars to build.

The list of benefits goes on and on, but that ability to not have to go scope and purchase land for the next area (which will never end) is monumental. There's no barrier today and there won't be a barrier tomorrow. That grid on the Myriad's land isn't being restored and we're not missing anything by not having it, nor do we gain much getting it back (there's no demand for it either).

I'm sure there'd be some benefits, especially in the short term, but if the new arena is built as disposable and in such a way that it can not be upgraded and maintained at first class level in the future, necessitating a completely new arena in 20 years, then it will be very short sighted, imo.

I can understand the need for a new arena, but I can't understand the concept of spending a lot of money to maintain a 2nd 18k first class arena, or holding it together with duct tape, just as a placeholder.

[Pete]

Every time the subject of scheduling around the Thunder comes up, I have to remind people that the Staples Center (now Crypto.com) in L.A. hosts the Lakers, Clippers, Sparks, Avengers (now defunct but operated for years) and Kings plus has scores of concerts and events. That's 2 NBA teams, 1 NHL, 1 WNBA, 1 arena football, and about 10x the events (including the Grammys for the last 20 years) Paycom hosts.

[dheinz44]

They need to figure out something to do with the small piece of land between paycom and omni. I know they cancelled the original plans because of the new arena but just some basic landscaping would make it look so much better. Right now its just weeds and storage containers.

[GoGators]

with no OU and KC being the legacy host .. i doubt big 12 basketball ever returns to OKC

Was the big 12 clamoring to get the basketball tournament in OKC while OU was in the conference? I doubt OU leaving has any effect on the future location of any big 12 tournament.

[Urbanized]

One of the biggest limitations of Paycom - which is a significant factor driving the talk of a new arena - is the lack of loading dock space. The arena has a very small loading dock area; room for only one or two semis at a time, and also is the secured game night parking location for Thunder players. It is abysmally cramped, and absolutely prevents many bookings because of load-in/load-out conflicts.

It is a very similar situation to the convention center; OKC was limited on bookings because you couldn't do simultaneous load-out of one event and load-in of another. It cut days off of the saleable schedule. As soon as conventions moved to the new building it opened up the door for vastly more bookings, and despite opening during a pandemic the building is now awash in advanced bookings. The same thing will happen with a new arena with a modern loading dock arrangement.

When we as a community talk about the need for an arena we typically focus solely on the Thunder. And without question the Thunder drives the need for a better building. But left out of the discussion almost without fail are the logistical and operational limitations that will always keep Paycom from being a truly comparable venue to other modern, major-market buildings.

Another example is the lack of space or facilities for televised events. When OKC hosted the NBA Finals in 2012, it was a simple thing to park the many satellite trucks in the old Ford Dealership lot across the street, and to lay cables across Robinson. We all clearly hope for high-quality development on those lots soon, which of course would take it off the table for this use. However the streetcar (launched in 2018) ALSO largely takes this property off the table, because laying cable across the street is no longer possible. OKC is likely to make the playoffs long before the new building is in place, so this will have to be temporarily solved in some way when we do.

But the playoffs and the Finals are two different things. The number of trucks for the Finals is 2-3X more than regular playoff rounds. If OKC should ever be lucky enough to make another finals there are presently tremendous challenges to successfully hosting.

Anyway, my point is that there are many reasons that don't immediately meet the eye that are driving the need for a new building. Paycom was a great building for a mid-sized city with no major league tenant. Over the years the City has made it more workable for an NBA tenant, but it is still not optimal. And the number of desirable events - including non-basketball - that are precluded or difficult-to-pull-off due to Paycom's logistics are plentiful.

[chssooner]

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...s/70275386007/

Not sure where this should go, or if it is ok to post from newsok.com. Just found it interesting that this is now being addressed.

[CitySooner]

One of the biggest limitations of Paycom - which is a significant factor driving the talk of a new arena - is the lack of loading dock space. The arena has a very small loading dock area; room for only one or two semis at a time, and also is the secured game night parking location for Thunder players. It is abysmally cramped, and absolutely prevents many bookings because of load-in/load-out conflicts.

It is a very similar situation to the convention center; OKC was limited on bookings because you couldn't do simultaneous load-out of one event and load-in of another. It cut days off of the saleable schedule. As soon as conventions moved to the new building it opened up the door for vastly more bookings, and despite opening during a pandemic the building is now awash in advanced bookings. The same thing will happen with a new arena with a modern loading dock arrangement.

When we as a community talk about the need for an arena we typically focus solely on the Thunder. And without question the Thunder drives the need for a better building. But left out of the discussion almost without fail are the logistical and operational limitations that will always keep Paycom from being a truly comparable venue to other modern, major-market buildings.

Another example is the lack of space or facilities for televised events. When OKC hosted the NBA Finals in 2012, it was a simple thing to park the many satellite trucks in the old Ford Dealership lot across the street, and to lay cables across Robinson. We all clearly hope for high-quality development on those lots soon, which of course would take it off the table for this use. However the streetcar (launched in 2018) ALSO largely takes this property off the table, because laying cable across the street is now longer possible. OKC is likely to make the playoffs long before the new building is in place, so this will have to be temporarily solved in some way when we do.

But the playoffs and the Finals are two different things. The number of trucks for the Finals is 2-3X more than regular playoff rounds. If OKC should ever be lucky enough to make another finals there are presently tremendous challenges to successfully hosting.

Anyway, my point is that there are many reasons that don't immediately meet the eye that are driving the need for a new building. Paycom was a great building for a mid-sized city with now major league tenant. Over the years the City has made it more workable for an NBA tenant, but it is still not optimal. And the number of desirable events - including non-basketball - that are precluded or difficult-to-pull-off due to Paycom's logistics are plentiful.

Just replying to say: you are on the money here, per usual.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City is poised to build an arena to serve our community. Experience with the Myriad and Paycom Center will cover the square footage, seating capacity, premium seating and loading dock with room for growth on the super 4 square block site.

There are enough NBA arena models Fiserv Forum (Milwaukee), Crypto.com Arena (Los Angeles) and Chase Center (San Francisco) to get this right.

[BoulderSooner]

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...s/70275386007/

Not sure where this should go, or if it is ok to post from newsok.com. Just found it interesting that this is now being addressed.

what does this say?

[Pete]

what does this say?

Just talking about Mazaheri's request to allow a variance for unpaid parking on the Lumberyard lot (which passed today).

Also states he has yet to be fined for missing multiple deadlines on the old Goodwill lot where he is also operating a pay lot.

[Just the facts]

My understanding is it should go to vote in December. Thunder signed a new lease through 2026. If it passes, I would guess it would be several years and they might have to extend the lease until the new arena is built.

So by the time a tax for regional rail transit comes to a vote people will already be paying for a new jail and a new stadium. Good luck with getting regional rail.

[Laramie]

with no OU and KC being the legacy host .. i doubt big 12 basketball ever returns to OKC

It was the appeal of new arenas (AA Center, Dallas (2003-'04, '06) and Oklahoma City (2007, '09). and Oklahoma City (2007, '09). (KC opened the T-Mobile Arena 2,007)

KC has been the favorite because of its proximity to the two Kansas schools and Iowa State.

The landscape of the new Big 12 IMO gives the Big 12 an option to explore another site.

OKC has newer Luxury Omni & National Hotel (to name a few) we didn't have back when we hosted the Big 12 tournaments. New skyline look (Devon, BOK Park Plaza, refreshed BancFirst, First National all are impressive).

The modern Streetcar vs. the old rubber wheel trolleys.

OKC will provide a break from K.C., when the new arena is built.

.

[chssooner]

It was the appeal of new arenas (AA Center, Dallas (2003-'04, '06) and Oklahoma City (2007, '09). and Oklahoma City (2007, '09). (KC opened the T-Mobile Arena 2,007)

KC has been the favorite because of its proximity to the two Kansas schools and Iowa State.

The landscape of the new Big 12 IMO gives the Big 12 an option to explore another site.

OKC has newer Luxury Omni & National Hotel (to name a few) we didn't have back when we hosted the Big 12 tournaments. New skyline look (Devon, BOK Park Plaza, refreshed BancFirst, First National all are impressive).

The modern Streetcar vs. the old rubber wheel trolleys.

OKC will provide a break from K.C., when the new arena is built.

.

Why? OU fans won't be there.

[jn1780]

It was the appeal of new arenas (AA Center, Dallas (2003-'04, '06) and Oklahoma City (2007, '09). and Oklahoma City (2007, '09). (KC opened the T-Mobile Arena 2,007)

KC has been the favorite because of its proximity to the two Kansas schools and Iowa State.

The landscape of the new Big 12 IMO gives the Big 12 an option to explore another site.

OKC has newer Luxury Omni & National Hotel (to name a few) we didn't have back when we hosted the Big 12 tournaments. New skyline look (Devon, BOK Park Plaza, refreshed BancFirst, First National all are impressive).

The modern Streetcar vs. the old rubber wheel trolleys.

OKC will provide a break from K.C., when the new arena is built.

.

The two Kansas Schools and proximity to Iowa is a pretty big reason. I don't see how the new landscape favors OKC when half of OKC's population is on the Big 12's poop list because their fans of the university that took a lot of money away.

But this is getting into off topic territory. Urbanized post was enough to convince me that Paycom won't be around that long after a new arena is built. It may sound like a good idea in the beginning, but it will just sit most of the time gathering dust.

[warreng88]

One of the biggest limitations of Paycom - which is a significant factor driving the talk of a new arena - is the lack of loading dock space. The arena has a very small loading dock area; room for only one or two semis at a time, and also is the secured game night parking location for Thunder players. It is abysmally cramped, and absolutely prevents many bookings because of load-in/load-out conflicts.

It is a very similar situation to the convention center; OKC was limited on bookings because you couldn't do simultaneous load-out of one event and load-in of another. It cut days off of the saleable schedule. As soon as conventions moved to the new building it opened up the door for vastly more bookings, and despite opening during a pandemic the building is now awash in advanced bookings. The same thing will happen with a new arena with a modern loading dock arrangement.

When we as a community talk about the need for an arena we typically focus solely on the Thunder. And without question the Thunder drives the need for a better building. But left out of the discussion almost without fail are the logistical and operational limitations that will always keep Paycom from being a truly comparable venue to other modern, major-market buildings.

Another example is the lack of space or facilities for televised events. When OKC hosted the NBA Finals in 2012, it was a simple thing to park the many satellite trucks in the old Ford Dealership lot across the street, and to lay cables across Robinson. We all clearly hope for high-quality development on those lots soon, which of course would take it off the table for this use. However the streetcar (launched in 2018) ALSO largely takes this property off the table, because laying cable across the street is no longer possible. OKC is likely to make the playoffs long before the new building is in place, so this will have to be temporarily solved in some way when we do.

But the playoffs and the Finals are two different things. The number of trucks for the Finals is 2-3X more than regular playoff rounds. If OKC should ever be lucky enough to make another finals there are presently tremendous challenges to successfully hosting.

Anyway, my point is that there are many reasons that don't immediately meet the eye that are driving the need for a new building. Paycom was a great building for a mid-sized city with no major league tenant. Over the years the City has made it more workable for an NBA tenant, but it is still not optimal. And the number of desirable events - including non-basketball - that are precluded or difficult-to-pull-off due to Paycom's logistics are plentiful.

I have heard the same thing from many other people (as well as you). I was looking at the Crypto arena in LA and it looks like it has room for two, maybe three large tour buses or semis to pull in on the west side. I looked at the streets around the Chase Center in San Fran and couldn't find where the semis would go (I am sure they are there, just not sure where they pull into). For OKC, specifically, what kind of space are we needing to get bigger concerts, more efficient load in and out, etc?

[BDP]

Anyway, my point is that there are many reasons that don't immediately meet the eye that are driving the need for a new building. Paycom was a great building for a mid-sized city with no major league tenant. Over the years the City has made it more workable for an NBA tenant, but it is still not optimal. And the number of desirable events - including non-basketball - that are precluded or difficult-to-pull-off due to Paycom's logistics are plentiful.

This is a huge point and can not be overstated. It's probably a harder point to communicate and sell politically as a need for new arena. Shiny renderings and a more comprehensive and integrated development will carry a lot of that weight.

But, I do think it will go a long way to convince voters to support it, if they understand that it is much more than just a new home court for the Thunder. In fact, I think that's key and diffuses the "why use public funds to help out rich owners" argument. Positioned as a new venue that can better serve more events and all kinds of entertainment than Paycom currently can just broadens the appeal and its prospects for success. The Thunder would be the anchor tenant, with the priorities that goes along with that, but, ideally, the total number of non-Thunder events will be at least double the total number of nights they use it.

Like you said, there is no doubt Paycom was built and maintained in a responsible way for the market at the time and became a serviceable home for the NBA with improvements. It might even have some more mileage left in that role, especially if improvements and maintenance we have seen over the years continued. But there are real logistical hurdles with it that keep it from being more than just an NBA arena. To me, as a community funded civics project, there's more upside to building a new arena from the ground up than just being a shiny new home for the Thunder with additional revenue streams for the team. It isn't just keeping up with other NBA markets. It's also about keeping up with our own market and having a facility that can accommodate the significant growth the city has experienced since Paycom was originally built and the increase in demand for all kinds of large scale entertainment that the market can now support which maybe it couldn't have 25 years ago.

IMO, this needs to be THE downtown arena, and opportunities to redevelop the Paycom site is actually an important selling point.

[BDP]

Every time the subject of scheduling around the Thunder comes up, I have to remind people that the Staples Center (now Crypto.com) in L.A. hosts the Lakers, Clippers, Sparks, Avengers (now defunct but operated for years) and Kings plus has scores of concerts and events. That's 2 NBA teams, 1 NHL, 1 WNBA, 1 arena football, and about 10x the events (including the Grammys for the last 20 years) Paycom hosts.

For sure. For example, a recent 11 day stretch in April at Crypto:

WWE
(Dark)
WWE
Kings
Clippers
Muse
Lakers
Clippers / Kings
Lakers
Kings
Lakers (play-in game)

Not only were there NHL and NBA games during that stretch, one time they were on the same day.

[jn1780]

For sure. For example, a recent 11 day stretch in April at Crypto:

WWE
(Dark)
WWE
Kings
Clippers
Muse
Lakers
Clippers / Kings
Lakers
Kings
Lakers (play-in game)

Not only were there NHL and NBA games during that stretch, one time they were on the same day.

It's important to point out that this is possible because that Arena was built with bigger "Back stage" staging. A new OKC arena should be able to do more also.