OKC Commuter Rail

[OKVision4U]

You need to get your facts straight.

1) ACOG is just sponsoring the Commuter Corridor Study and Regional Transit Dialogue. Their staff is not the Steering Committee and they do not have a role in the decision-making.
2) The Steering Committee is not just a "few people". It's made up of more than 30 elected public officials, civic and business leaders and other representatives from the various municipalities involved, including Mayors and Councilmembers from Oklahoma City, Edmond, Norman and Midwest City.
3) It's not USR...it's URS Corporation and they are recognized international experts in rail transit system planning and development.
4) URS did NOT state that Light Rail is the best solution. In fact, their analysis found that Light Rail was "not warranted" for our system. The truth of the matter is that URS recommended Commuter Rail as the preferred rail transit solution for the Edmond and Norman corridors, and they recommended Bus Rapid Transit or Rapid Streetcar for the Midwest City corridor.
5) The conservative cost estimate provided by URS for development of Light Rail service was NOT $40 million per mile. It was nearly double that figure at almost $80 million per mile.
6) Commuter Rail was the rail transit mode of choice by a majority of public who took part in URS' open houses, webinars and online surveys.
7) Unlike the Amtrak Heartland Flyer, which does operate on a shared single mainline track with Freight Rail, the Commuter Rail system recommended by URS for the Oklahoma City metropolitan area is based on installation of a second mainline track on which Commuter Rail trains will operate independently and without interference from Freight Rail traffic during normal operational hours.
8) All Commuter Rail operations through Santa Fe Intermodal Station and at all other system stations will NOT require passengers to cross active freight or passenger rail lines or to enter active rail yards. Passengers will safely access and board all Commuter Rail trains directly from passenger platforms accessed directly from those stations.

Betts is right. If you're convinced you have the answer, then you should become a part of the political and technical processes, like many of the rest of us who are already working with our civic leaders and the planning and engineering consultants to try to develop an affordable and workable transit system for Oklahoma City that the voters will support. Short of that, your rants on this forum will have little meaning or impact.

All of you ( that disagree with me on this one ) should watch this. ( warning graphic )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w612s5faYtE

Hutch, when you say "affordable & workable transit system for Oklahoma City", this is what you are giving them. There is a reason it is so cheap. My wife is worth more than just "workable & affordable". This was a lady that died because the system in place was "average and doable". My role is to think this through even when the councilmen / mayors / committee members don't.

When I think of the reality that is here, it should be bone chilling to "dumb down" a system for the sake of a few million. The Santa Fe Intermodal Station may be dedicated but your other outlying stations will be a mix of freight & commuter lines on the same area. This is the Un-Acceptable.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Don't feed the troll, ya'll.

[Bullbear]

All of you ( that disagree with me on this one ) should watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w612s5faYtE

.

Well that was graphic unacceptable and uncalled for. Thanks for taking this to a new low

[OKVision4U]

Well that was graphic unacceptable and uncalled for. Thanks for taking this to a new low

This is WHY I am passionate about a system that keeps your family safe. I want to make sure your family gets home safely and they can continue to be the Mom & Dad they should be. No family should have to be without a loved one because of the system was not safe.

...no laws were broken in this situation w/ the mother. It is just what happens when the factors are greater than 0 in a system....then it is just a matter of time.

Let's keep the people we love out of harms way to begin with. Let's have an elevated system that takes them out of the equation.

[OKVision4U]

Don't feed the troll, ya'll.

Cuatro, did you see the video? ...are you ok with a system like that one? one that places ladies on their commute in harms way? ...one that places un-suspecting people in an area where their lives are at risk?

You can call me a troll all day long, if it saves lives and gets your family home to you after long day working in the downtown area and then just trying to rush home to catch a ball-game w/ their kids. ????

Sometimes, people have other things on their mind after a long day....and it is not their surroundings. They are on the phone or texting and not paying attention to the "risks" they are subject to and don't even know they are in harms way. ...so let's not put them there.

[warreng88]

Well that was graphic unacceptable and uncalled for. Thanks for taking this to a new low

And also from 1991, 23 years ago. My grandad died when his car was struck by a train in Orlando in 1961, should I be against all trains due to this? No, rules and regulations have changed since all of this has happened.

[OKVision4U]

And also from 1991, 23 years ago. My grandad died when his car was struck by a train in Orlando in 1961, should I be against all trains due to this? No, rules and regulations have changed since all of this has happened.

Rules & Regulations don't replace loved ones. Like I said, the woman that lost here life in this video...there were no rules or laws broken. Just the system that placed loved ones too close to a fatal situation.

Let's start with the Best Solution first, and then modifiy accordingly.

[OKVision4U]

All of you ( that disagree with me on this one ) should watch this. ( warning graphic )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w612s5faYtE

Hutch, when you say "affordable & workable transit system for Oklahoma City", this is what you are giving them. There is a reason it is so cheap. My wife is worth more than just "workable & affordable". This was a lady that died because the system in place was "average and doable". My role is to think this through even when the councilmen / mayors / committee members don't.

When I think of the reality that is here, it should be bone chilling to "dumb down" a system for the sake of a few million. The Santa Fe Intermodal Station may be dedicated but your other outlying stations will be a mix of freight & commuter lines on the same area. This is the Un-Acceptable.

Hutch, you and your 30 friends / mayors / councilmen can't say you did not know what the risks are. Like I said, a few people making a poor decision for the many.

[warreng88]

So, what stops would be best for commuters? Would this be along the rail line that runs parallel with 235/35? I think a 23, 63, Memorial and 2nd street would be best for Edmond and I am not sure about Moore/Norman. Lindsey in Norman just because it is close to campus and 4th in Moore due to the surrounding retail. Where else?

[OKCisOK4me]

I blocked OKVision4U a looooooong time ago so I wouldn't have to waste my input.

23rd would be interesting because it'd have to be under 235 behind and to the east of Byrons Liquor store.

[warreng88]

I blocked OKVision4U a looooooong time ago so I wouldn't have to waste my input.

23rd would be interesting because it'd have to be under 235 behind and to the east of Byrons Liquor store.

Yeah, I would think it would have to be the area south of On-Cue on the south side of 23rd. I am sure that is gov't owned land so getting access to it might not be as difficult as a normal property owner.

[warreng88]

That would also link up close to a streetcar line running either up Broadway/Robinson or ideally Lincoln, then coming west.

[OKVision4U]

So, what stops would be best for commuters? Would this be along the rail line that runs parallel with 235/35? I think a 23, 63, Memorial and 2nd street would be best for Edmond and I am not sure about Moore/Norman. Lindsey in Norman just because it is close to campus and 4th in Moore due to the surrounding retail. Where else?

yes, those areas would be much better for the commuter. It also takes advantage of the existing commerce already in-place at those locations. I'm not sure if 23rd is needed though.

If the line is Elevated and Dedicated to commuters only, then you have a much better system for all.

[OKVision4U]

I blocked OKVision4U a looooooong time ago so I wouldn't have to waste my input.

23rd would be interesting because it'd have to be under 235 behind and to the east of Byrons Liquor store.

I was getting help from you and I did not even know it.

[Hutch]

Hutch, you and your 30 friends / mayors / councilmen can't say you did not know what the risks are. Like I said, a few people making a poor decision for the many.

Like I said, spewing misinformation and fear is getting you nowhere. The truth of the matter is there are deadly accidents involving all rail transit modes, virtually all involving either suicide or human error.

In fact, there were more fatalities on UTA's TRAX Light Rail system (10) than there were on UTA's Frontrunner Commuter Rail system (2) in 2011 and 2012.

Not even Monorail systems are foolproof, as evidenced by the following:

Fatal Monorail Crash

Like I also said, if you want to be taken seriously and make a real difference, drop the rhetoric and aspersions and get directly involved in the process.

[Urbanized]

...Like I also said, if you want to be taken seriously and make a real difference, drop the rhetoric and aspersions and get directly involved in the process.

Oh come on, where's the fun in THAT?

[OKVision4U]

Like I said, spewing misinformation and fear is getting you nowhere. The truth of the matter is there are deadly accidents involving all rail transit modes, virtually all involving either suicide or human error.
In fact, there were more fatalities on UTA's TRAX Light Rail system (10) than there were on UTA's Frontrunner Commuter Rail system (2) in 2011 and 2012.

Not even Monorail systems are foolproof, as evidenced by the following:

Fatal Monorail Crash

Like I also said, if you want to be taken seriously and make a real difference, drop the rhetoric and aspersions and get directly involved in the process.

Hutch, I'm not talking about someone that is trying to end their life by "jumping in front of a train", I'm talking about a flawed system from the start. That lady I showed you was just trying to cross the road. That by definition is a major concern when she did nothing wrong and her life was taken away. What are you NOTseeing here? If you and your ACOG team can't see that, then that is truly alarming.

( If you don't want the lock to be opened, then remove the key from the lock first. ) Then seperate them. This is Emergency Planning / Risk Management 101. Remove the Hazard out of the design completely, then engineer.

Elevated & Dedicated. Start with that ACOG. ...then add your "mode of transport" second.





ACOG, this is not about TRAINS OR MONEY, this is about PEOPLE.

[OKVision4U]

Like I said, spewing misinformation and fear is getting you nowhere. The truth of the matter is there are deadly accidents involving all rail transit modes, virtually all involving either suicide or human error.

In fact, there were more fatalities on UTA's TRAX Light Rail system (10) than there were on UTA's Frontrunner Commuter Rail system (2) in 2011 and 2012.

Not even Monorail systems are foolproof, as evidenced by the following:

Fatal Monorail Crash

Like I also said, if you want to be taken seriously and make a real difference, drop the rhetoric and aspersions and get directly involved in the process.

Fear is a good thing! I do have a healthy respect for life. Others may not. I will be 100% up-front w/ all of you on this subject. I will not be picking up any rattlesnakes, you won't see me on Sharkweek swimming with any Great Whites during their dinner time, and I'm not crossing the Mara River w/ the Wildabeast ( it is well known the Crocs feed at that time ). It is not a fear, it is a Respect for the Circumstances. ....just like our Commute Trains that are mixed-in with the freight lines. That is already a (Lethal) design, so why add that to our commute?

Let me ask all of you this, would you feel 100% comfortable at sending your 75 year old Grandmother ALONE to the OU Health downtown to get her checkup from Moore? Hutch, I don't need to waste time talking to a group ( Mayor / Councilment / Committe Member that is OK with this senario. If you don't care, then I can't help you on this one. If you don't understand it already, then 10 minutes is not going to enlighten you.

[venture]

Vision or Thunder....I'm having a hard time deciding which one was more entertaining. LOL

The insults being thrown at Hutch and others though is just insane considering the amount of investment they have in seeing projects like this happen.

Time for Braums.

[OKVision4U]

Vision or Thunder....I'm having a hard time deciding which one was more entertaining. LOL

The insults being thrown at Hutch and others though is just insane considering the amount of investment they have in seeing projects like this happen.

Time for Braums.

Venture, maybe your are a little too caught-up in the banter of this sandbox, but I was very serious when I demonstrated the "why" I am very engaged in this commute alternative called Heavy Trains sharing lines w/ Freight & Mixing the Entrance / Exit points in Moore / Norman / Edmond / MWC.

In case you did not see it, I will provide you a copy also, since you are a transportation expert as well. Warning, this is graphic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w612s5faYtE

Again, this is a very important issue when it comes to our loved ones. They deserve our best, not the "most feasible". Or the one that is "workable".

The insult Venture is when they try to "push" a product and then tell us its "safe".

[hoya]

I love Braums.

[Richard at Remax]

Vision, once again, derails a thread

[Bullbear]

Vision, once again, derails a thread

I see what you did there

[OKVision4U]

I love Braums.

Hoyasooner, Worth Cook, Venture...did you see the clip of the Lady trying to cross the tracks? ...and then let's talk about the type of safe commute we should have for our OKC Metro Commute.

Should we mix passengers w/ freight lines? ...shared points of entry....? ...share points of exit..?

Should we keep them seperate from harms way? ..maybe a system that is dedicated ONLY to commuters. ..maybe a system that is elevated away from the all the other exixting issues and providing a clean system to design from?

[CuatrodeMayo]

I'm waiting for him to start going off about blowing horns...