LifeChurchTV

[metro]

it may be neverending, but being able to explain and defend your faith is worthwhile isn't it? besides, i'm asking about your faith as a member of lifechurch and not about people's faith in general. therefore it seems applicable to this thread... as a member of lifechurch can you explain what you believe to me? -M

In addition to Essential Beliefs, we uphold the following:
In Non-Essential Beliefs, we have liberty. Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters…Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls…So then each of us will give an account of himself to God..So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. (Romans 14:1, 4, 12, 22 NIV)

With this being said, I will not further dispute this topic. Get another hobby.

[metro]

Midtowner, for those of you who still have financial questions about life, why not ask them directly. If you don't agree with it, simply don't go to church there. Leave it at that.

Members of LifeChurch.tv may request a copy of our most recently audited financial statements or ask general questions about our financial practices at any time by contacting us at Finance@LifeChurch.tv.

[Midtowner]

Metro, that's fine and all, but I have reservations about LC, and I have just as much right to air them as you have the right to air your displeasure with me in the way that you do. Feel free to try and explain away these problems, but haven't you figured out that your wanting to keep this thread positive simply isn't something I'm interested in cooperating with?

[Martin]

metro,

at least you quoted some scripture. i'll give you that. and you're right, in matters of preference we are given liberty. in context, the scripture you quote discusses some believers' choice to eat meat and others' choice not to and that both are not wrong. however, this discussion deals with weightier things... essential beliefs in your words.

you've chosen not to answer some simple questions about these essential beliefs. either you don't know for yourself or you don't care enough to take the time. either way it's sad. get another hobby? christianity is a life and not just a hobby, friend. maybe someday you'll gain a little maturity and understand that. -M

[Midtowner]

It seems to me that there isn't a lot that binds the LC community together other than (possibly) a belief in God and Jesus...

--and the ability to rock out jeebus style.

[metro]

What about Lifegroups? Are you dismissing the sense of a small community and personal accountability with a few people in a core group. (much similar to a small church) or the underground church in the early 1st century sometimes referred to as an Acts 2 [As in Acts chapter 2] type of church.

[Martin]

personally, i don't have a problem with programs similar to lifegroups. meeting in small groups definitely helps keep people from being lost in the shuffle.

however (and not to put words in anyone's mouth), i think that what midtowner is saying is that lifechurch doesn't have any doctrinal substance beyond a belief in god or jesus. other than that belief, you can do pretty much whatever you want. while lifechurch emulates the first century church through lifegroups, it diregards some important doctrine that scripture tells us about the early church and what it practiced and believed. -M

[Faith]

personally, i don't have a problem with programs similar to lifegroups. meeting in small groups definitely helps keep people from being lost in the shuffle.

however (and not to put words in anyone's mouth), i think that what midtowner is saying is that lifechurch doesn't have any doctrinal substance beyond a belief in god or jesus. other than that belief, you can do pretty much whatever you want. while lifechurch emulates the first century church through lifegroups, it diregards some important doctrine that scripture tells us about the early church and what it practiced and believed. -M

How much percentage of a specific denomination's members actually abide by their practices all the time? The belief in God and Jesus is the most important foundation that should unite churches.

[Martin]

How much percentage of a specific denomination's members actually abide by their practices all the time?

i'm not sure where you're going with this... some practices are matters of choice and others are matters of doctrine. for matters of choice, it isn't so important as to how many people abide... it's just tradition and preference. the scriptural basis for matters of doctrine, however, doesn't change regardless of the percentage of people who are loyal to it. ...perhaps i'm misunderstanding the point you're driving at?

The belief in God and Jesus is the most important foundation that should unite churches.

true... without a belief in god or christ, a group could scarcely call itself 'christian.' however, truly being a christian is based on more than just believing.

[Faith]

Sorry for being a bit unclear with my message. I guess what I was just trying to understand why some previous posts were suggesting that Life Church didn't have much of a doctrine they follow. Several churches and/or religion groups have doctrines lined out specifically what they follow. I understand that most of them are tradition and/or preference. But I don't understand the importance of outlining specific rules, for ex: (not eating certain foods, honoring the Sabbath, what to wear, etc.) when a large percentage of the congregation doesn't abide.

Honoring the Body, Hospitality, Household Budget, Keeping the Sabbath, Forgiveness, etc. these are essential practices that hold Christianity organizations/churches together. Why would anyone suggest that Life Church doesn't have any doctrinal substance except a belief in God or Jesus?

If you would like to see some examples of "Essential Beliefs" that Life Church believes in please visit the link below.

http://www.lifechurch.tv/p/117/Default.aspx

[jrilesjr]

The mission of LifeChurch.tv is "to lead people, to become, fully devoted followers of Christ."

Simple enough.

With every new move of God, there is always controversy.

[Martin]

so i've read the 'essential beliefs' page again. it appears to me that there really isn't much in them besides a belief in god and jesus. there's nothing about obedience. nothing about baptism. nothing about meeting on the lord's day. nothing about the lord's supper. are these and other things that the new tesatament church did non-essential? where in scripture did it say that these things were optional? it seems to me that lifechurch's message is that as long as i believe in god & jesus, then i'm 'ok' regardless of anything else.

as for lifechurch's mission, there's nothing wrong with that. the issue is the means in which they choose to achieve this goal. everything is done to bring in the most people possible... but in the process, some essential things are compromised since they are seen as making the average person uncomfortable.

With every new move of God, there is always controversy.

how do you know that this is a change on god's part and not simply a change on man's part? why would god violate his own scripture?

-M

[metro]

mmm have you attended Life regularly? Perhaps even more than once? I'm curious as to what authority you have to judge man and one's heart? Matthew 7:1 . I think you have a misconception of Life because you are not familiar with it. How can you judge if you do not attend regularly? Life is passionate about people selling out 100% to God. Their motto is to "Bring in, Build up, Train, and send out". Sounds like the Great Commission if you ask me (Matt. 28: 18-20)

How could Jesus say, "And if you brother sins, go and reprove him...?" How could Jesus go on to say, "And if he refuses to listen...tell it to the church"? (Matthew 18:15,17). How could Jesus' apostle, Paul, say, "Do you not judge those who are within the church?...Remove the wicked man from among yourselves" (1 Corinthians 5:12,13).

Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged.

Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

James 4:12
Who art thou that judgest another?
1 Corinthians 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?.

I think that the second we start to judge anothers life we should remove the plank in our own life. That does not say that I'm holier than thou, in fact, far from it. Let us not take one verse out of context without taking into consideration ALL of SCRIPTURE.

Let's all work on our own problems (including myself) before looking at someone elses.

Matthew 7:3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28).

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse (Romans 12:14).

Father, my prayer today is that we all will get along, regardless of denomination, belief, sect, creed, or elsewise. Our ultimate goal is all the same. Please help us to pray for one another lifting our brothers and sisters up.Bless our enemies. And God please give us strength to get through our trials and tribulations, give us peace and clarity. Amen.

[Keith]

mmm have you attended Life regularly? Perhaps even more than once? I'm curious as to what authority you have to judge man and one's heart? Matthew 7:1 . I think you have a misconception of Life because you are not familiar with it. How can you judge if you do not attend regularly? Life is passionate about people selling out 100% to God. Their motto is to "Bring in, Build up, Train, and send out". Sounds like the Great Commission if you ask me (Matt. 28: 18-20)

How could Jesus say, "And if you brother sins, go and reprove him...?" How could Jesus go on to say, "And if he refuses to listen...tell it to the church"? (Matthew 18:15,17). How could Jesus' apostle, Paul, say, "Do you not judge those who are within the church?...Remove the wicked man from among yourselves" (1 Corinthians 5:12,13).

Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged.

Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

James 4:12
Who art thou that judgest another?
1 Corinthians 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?.

I think that the second we start to judge anothers life we should remove the plank in our own life. That does not say that I'm holier than thou, in fact, far from it. Let us not take one verse out of context without taking into consideration ALL of SCRIPTURE.

Let's all work on our own problems (including myself) before looking at someone elses.

Matthew 7:3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28).

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse (Romans 12:14).

Father, my prayer today is that we all will get along, regardless of denomination, belief, sect, creed, or elsewise. Our ultimate goal is all the same. Please help us to pray for one another lifting our brothers and sisters up.Bless our enemies. And God please give us strength to get through our trials and tribulations, give us peace and clarity. Amen.

Very well put, metro.

[Midtowner]

My church's ultimate goal is not to line the pockets of those in charge.

So I guess we don't have the same goals...

[Martin]

metro,
i'm glad to see that you continue to add more and more scripture to your arguments.

first, i've not attended lifechurch. however, another evangelical covenant church that is similar in size and is structured and marketed very similarly to lifechurch was a major client at a former job... read that, i personally spent alot of time getting to know them and their faith. we also had as clients some smaller covenant churches and one of the covenant conference districts. i'm therefore quite familiar with the inner workings of organizations like lifechurch.

what insight did i gain from my experiences? they were nice people and well-intended (unlike other organizations that i've had dealings with), but their doctrine is lacking. the purpose and focus of the marketing and of the 'experiences' were always to attract more people by apearring 'hip' and 'relevant.' their focus was on attracting and pleasing people rather than on pleasing god.

as for the great commision, verse twenty states 'and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you...' i think that lifechurch does pretty good with the 'go out into the world' part but is severely lacking in teaching obedience to all of christ's commands.

as far as judgment is concerned, i make no claims as to what goes in your heart. being critical and asking questions of a church is far different than judging the state of an individual's salvation.

paul praises those who turn to scripture to closely examine and question gospel,
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

as christians we are to teach and admonish each other,
Colossians 1:28
We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.

as christians we are called to love one another. however, love is not simply making peace. i think it's safe to say that good parents love their children. even still, good parents don't simply do things to make their children happy... they correct them when they do wrong and they try to steer them away from things that are harmful regardless of whether or not it makes their children happy. the type of love extended by lifechurch, to me, is the type that just strives to make people happy. it's not always enough simply to get along. -M

[metro]

Just wondering if any Lifechurch.tv volunteers on this site attended the Big Show on Friday. I'm sure it will make some upset on this site but we will be adding locations in Indianapolis, Atlanta, San Antonio, and Denver as well as the new NW OKC campus and potential other sites across the world. Praise God. If you missed the big show, you missed out. Craig shared an awesome glimpse into the history of the church (Luther, Gutenberg, etc) as a whole as where as where he would like to see our church go.

[Faith]

Hey Metro! I attended the Big Show on Friday. It found it to be very inspirational and a great time. It is exciting to think of how many thousands and thousands of lives can be saved around the world.

[Patrick]

My church's ultimate goal is not to line the pockets of those in charge.

That isn't the goal of LifeChurch either. At least LifeChurch spends their money on things that are going to reach people, instead of wasting money on sculptures, idols, and the like. I don't think anyone has ever been led to Christ through a scupture of Mary.

[Midtowner]

That's true, no one has ever been led to Christ by a sculpture of Mary.

What exactly is your point?

Which "Idols" are in the Catholic church? We do have a crucifix, however, it is more symbolic, much as the Bible is for Bible thumpers. In fact, there are a lot of symbolic things in the Catholic church none of which are thought to be idols according to any common understanding of the term.

We're actually fairly sensitive to that in that the "Great Schism" of the East and West churches was driven in large part by accusations of idolatry, hence the iconoclast movements beginning as early as the 700AD's.

Should a place of worship be a pretty place? Certainly. A house of worship ought to represent the God for which it was built, hence cathedrals, stain glass windows, stations of the cross, etc.

[metro]

Faith, glad you had a good time. It will be interesting to watch what God unfolds for the future of not only Lifechurch.tv but the church body as a whole worldwide. I loved when he poured out his heart and vision about how Luther had the knock that was heard around the world, and then Gutenberg created the printing press so common people could have access to scripture, and perhaps lifechurch.tv will help set the standard for "the click heard around the world"(referring to satellite and online campuses) in these last days.

[Faith]

Metro - Yes it gave me chill bumps to think that it could be the modern day "knock heard around the world"!

[Easy180]

Faith, glad you had a good time. It will be interesting to watch what God unfolds for the future of not only Lifechurch.tv but the church body as a whole worldwide. I loved when he poured out his heart and vision about how Luther had the knock that was heard around the world, and then Gutenberg created the printing press so common people could have access to scripture, and perhaps lifechurch.tv will help set the standard for "the click heard around the world"(referring to satellite and online campuses) in these last days.

In these last days...You talking about last days of 2006?

[metro]

no of civilization i think

[Easy180]

no of civilization i think

Aha...Do you know if it's sometime next year?....Gotta turn in my vacation requests pretty soon