Covid-19 Economic Impact

[chuck5815]

It is a grossly mistaken notion that “opening things up” will revive the economy. The economy cannot and will not recover until the public health crisis abates. Stitt’s dithering will actually prolong the heath crisis and make it literally impossible for the economy to rebound. We only have a matter of days left to prevent a massive and devastating health crisis in this state. By allowing this piecemeal closure approach to continue and by failing to use his powers to act, Stitt is following Italy’s blueprint. Many if not most of us here will lose someone as a result. Some of us on this thread won’t make it. Stitt will have blood on his hands..

feel free to keep your misguided political opinions in the politics thread.

thanks.

[BoulderSooner]

A deadly illness, left unchecked, will also destroy the economy. We are headed for a depression regardless, might as well try to keep people alive.

100 mil getting the virus will happen no matter what we do experts agree on that

3 months of what we are doing now doesn't make a depression it ends our way of life

[Plutonic Panda]

A deadly illness, left unchecked, will also destroy the economy. We are headed for a depression regardless, might as well try to keep people alive.

Once again, why the hell does this have to be so binary? Where did Boulder claim we should leave it unchecked? You are making strawman arguments to support your irrational theory of keeping the entire economy shut down and risking many lives in the event of a complete collapse.

[jn1780]

If this is a long war, the world used all of its nuclear weapons on level 1.

There needs to be more strategy with the lock downs and not just assume every place on the planet has the exact same demographics and population. RO is highly variable form place to place. Japan has still not blew up exceptionally . Have you seen their subway system?

[jn1780]

100 mil getting the virus will happen no matter what we do experts agree on that

3 months of what we are doing now doesn't make a depression it ends our way of life

Probably far higher than 100 mil. 100 mil is the point where people who hasn't gotten it yet sees there probability of getting it start to go down significantly. I'm not sure how "flattening the curve" got twisted into a keep people from getting it all argument. If your one of the most vulnerable, you still have to watch your but all the way until there is hopefully a vaccine 1 to 2 years from now.

[catch22]

I think we need to keep things closed a little longer. I don't like it, but we have sacrificed this much let's push a little further.

We need time to get the healthcare system caught up. We need to get supplies caught up to hospitals. And I think waiting to see some broader evidence of the drug trials in NY. If it is the miracle drug some think it is, we should be seeing some sort of data by the end of the week.

Too soon to open the doors I think.

[Rover]

Some people seem really cavalier with other people's lives. ... or maybe even their own.

[gopokes88]

I think we need to keep things closed a little longer. I don't like it, but we have sacrificed this much let's push a little further.

We need time to get the healthcare system caught up. We need to get supplies caught up to hospitals. And I think waiting to see some broader evidence of the drug trials in NY. If it is the miracle drug some think it is, we should be seeing some sort of data by the end of the week.

Too soon to open the doors I think.

There is a tipping point. Of shutting everything down to stop the spread today, but making tomorrow exponentially more difficult.

A depression kills millions from hunger, crime, and other nasty things. (wars tend to break out) This time kids too. Not a single person under 14 has died from Corona, that will change in a depression.

It is an ethos of this country to leave the country in a better place than when you got here. That's not looking as likely for Gen X, Millennial's and Gen Z.

[Bunty]

It is a grossly mistaken notion that “opening things up” will revive the economy. The economy cannot and will not recover until the public health crisis abates. Stitt’s dithering will actually prolong the heath crisis and make it literally impossible for the economy to rebound. We only have a matter of days left to prevent a massive and devastating health crisis in this state. By allowing this piecemeal closure approach to continue and by failing to use his powers to act, Stitt is following Italy’s blueprint. Many if not most of us here will lose someone as a result. Some of us on this thread won’t make it. Stitt will have blood on his hands..

Enid and Lawton mayors have shut down much of their towns. They're not waiting any longer for someone in their towns to die of the virus.

[Bunty]

Some people seem really cavalier with other people's lives. ... or maybe even their own.

Yeah, probably some people would be cold hearted enough to support ending the shut down even if their local hospitals were overwhelmed.

[Greggo71]

Strawman arguments serve no purpose in any type of real discussion. It neither strengthens others perception of your opinion nor wins over people on the fence - it is a toxic action that only serves to hurt real dialogue. I know this is a message board and that is one of the typical ways of communicating in such a place but please keep in mind we are all worried and unsure of what is going to happen - there are no bad guys posting here. I think striving for a higher level of respect would serve everyone very well.

Rant over.

[TheTravellers]

There is a tipping point. Of shutting everything down to stop the spread today, but making tomorrow exponentially more difficult.

A depression kills millions from hunger, crime, and other nasty things. (wars tend to break out) This time kids too. Not a single person under 14 has died from Corona, that will change in a depression.

It is an ethos of this country to leave the country in a better place than when you got here. That's not looking as likely for Gen X, Millennial's and Gen Z.

Boomers blew that ethos out of the water....

Here's a good read on what we should do that's practical and not binary:

Sending People Back to Work Now Will Not Save the Economy. It Will Doom It.

"The more sensible approach to taming this virus and saving our economy would be to orchestrate an actual nationwide lockdown for at least three or four weeks while the government essentially pays everybody’s bills (see: the economic aid bill Congress is working on). During that time, the country could ramp up production of tests and ventilators, and put in place measures necessary to set up an effective regime of testing people suspected of being ill and tracing their contacts, which appears to have worked in both South Korea and Taiwan. We’d face a dramatic economic downturn, yes. But we might also enjoy a relatively quick, V-shaped recovery as life returned to some semblance of normality."

And as has been said by me and many others - test, test, test, test! That's the main reason we're in this spot, we should've been testing everybody possible at least a month ago. Would anybody here write a program and not know what kind of data to expect as input? Nope, program wouldn't even be started until they know what data they're going to get and process. How can we expect to do anything useful and smart going forward if we have no data on who's infected, where they are, exactly how long it lives on surfaces (figured that one, mostly), etc.

[BoulderSooner]

Boomers blew that ethos out of the water....

Here's a good read on what we should do that's practical and not binary:

Sending People Back to Work Now Will Not Save the Economy. It Will Doom It.

"The more sensible approach to taming this virus and saving our economy would be to orchestrate an actual nationwide lockdown for at least three or four weeks while the government essentially pays everybody’s bills (see: the economic aid bill Congress is working on). During that time, the country could ramp up production of tests and ventilators, and put in place measures necessary to set up an effective regime of testing people suspected of being ill and tracing their contacts, which appears to have worked in both South Korea and Taiwan. We’d face a dramatic economic downturn, yes. But we might also enjoy a relatively quick, V-shaped recovery as life returned to some semblance of normality."

And as has been said by me and many others - test, test, test, test! That's the main reason we're in this spot, we should've been testing everybody possible at least a month ago. Would anybody here write a program and not know what kind of data to expect as input? Nope, program wouldn't even be started until they know what data they're going to get and process. How can we expect to do anything useful and smart going forward if we have no data on who's infected, where they are, exactly how long it lives on surfaces (figured that one, mostly), etc.

this is not a bad plan .. but it would need to be 3 or 4 weeks max ... also of course everyone won't be at home critical jobs will still go on grocery stores will still go on and of course random 20 somethings partying will still go on ..

[Bunty]

Latest numbers: https://content.govdelivery.com/acco...o91io.facebook

[TheTravellers]

this is not a bad plan .. but it would need to be 3 or 4 weeks max ... also of course everyone won't be at home critical jobs will still go on grocery stores will still go on and of course random 20 somethings partying will still go on ..

Absolutely, not everybody can get online delivery of groceries, prescriptions, etc., and yes, there are absolutely essential jobs, gas stations need to stay open, trash needs to be hauled. And then there are the stupid people (spring breaker actual quote - "I think I can handle it, I've got a pretty good immune system". Yeah, but does your grandma that you're going to see right after you get back have one?).

[Rover]

There is a tipping point. Of shutting everything down to stop the spread today, but making tomorrow exponentially more difficult.

A depression kills millions from hunger, crime, and other nasty things. (wars tend to break out) This time kids too. Not a single person under 14 has died from Corona, that will change in a depression.

It is an ethos of this country to leave the country in a better place than when you got here. That's not looking as likely for Gen X, Millennial's and Gen Z.

I thought the ethos of this country was God fearing and God loving. I'm not willing to kill others to make sure my kids have a cushy life. If you are, fine.

[Rover]

Boomers blew that ethos out of the water....

Misplaced blame. If anything, Boomers tried making it so easy on their kids they often failed them.

I won't participate in ignorant stereotyping by generation. It's time everyone took responsibility for their own lives and put a little into perspective. Millennials no more know what problems Boomers faced than Boomers fully understand the challenges of Millennials.

[BoulderSooner]

I thought the ethos of this country was God fearing and God loving. I'm not willing to kill others to make sure my kids have a cushy life. If you are, fine.

it has nothing to do with " cushy life"

[Rover]

it has nothing to do with " cushy life"

It has to do with facing hardships and overcoming because we save lives. Or, we can ignore it and the survivors will make an easier living. People can rationalize all they want, but the REAL ethos of our country is being, and will be, exposed. Dogma and talk vs. action and consequences.

[BoulderSooner]

It has to do with facing hardships and overcoming because we save lives. Or, we can ignore it and the survivors will make an easier living. People can rationalize all they want, but the REAL ethos of our country is being, and will be, exposed. Dogma and talk vs. action and consequences.

the great depression is starting to become the best case ...

shutdown for 90 days and we don't have a system left

[gopokes88]

It has to do with facing hardships and overcoming because we save lives. Or, we can ignore it and the survivors will make an easier living. People can rationalize all they want, but the REAL ethos of our country is being, and will be, exposed. Dogma and talk vs. action and consequences.

Are you really arguing the Great Depression didn’t kill people?

You nuke the economy and millions will die from starvation, crime explodes, and a total breakdown of civilized society occurs.

[mugofbeer]

the great depression is starting to become the best case ...

shutdown for 90 days and we don't have a system left

Not say this isn't a crisis situation but I don't think you can say that. We have never had a case like this where such a large part of our economy is in "mothballs" and did not decline organically. Given the government pledge for low interest loans and at least a little cash for individuals and business, when we do start to come out of the caves, I see a pretty fast recovery - certainly not up to where we were, but I think as much as possible, most people will be able to just go back to their jobs. Some things will take longer to recover, such as manufacturing and travel, but they will recover. There's no reason for them not to.

[mugofbeer]

Are you really arguing the Great Depression didn’t kill people?

You nuke the economy and millions will die from starvation, crime explodes, and a total breakdown of civilized society occurs.

Dude, really, get hold of yourself.....

[TheTravellers]

Misplaced blame. If anything, Boomers tried making it so easy on their kids they often failed them.

I won't participate in ignorant stereotyping by generation. It's time everyone took responsibility for their own lives and put a little into perspective. Millennials no more know what problems Boomers faced than Boomers fully understand the challenges of Millennials.

I'll just leave you with this - Who are the only people who could've fixed (or started to fix) climate change back in the 1970s, yet did nothing at all and the powers-that-be at that time covered it up? Not going to discuss this further on this thread since it's not about COVID-19, but had to refute your "Misplaced blame" assertion. Oh, and I'm not a Millennial, I'm Gen X, and my wife is technically a Boomer, but born in one of the last years of the category (so she was too young to do anything about climate change in the 1970s, to head that one off).

[gopokes88]

Dude, really, get hold of yourself.....

That scenario is on the table. There isn't an unlimited supply of money the Fed can throw at it.