OU President Gallogly

[soonerheart]

Just curious as to why?

go independent with UT and stay in the big12 for all the other sports just like Notre Dame has with the ACC.


You do realize NBC wanted OU before they signed the deal with Notre Dame in the 1980's right?

OU is taking less money right now to help prop up the little 8 in the big12

You are correct about the OU NBC deal but we must remember OU turned the deal down due to the difficulty of scheduling its other sports.

Even UT officials at one time said they could not go fully independent due to the difficulty of scheduling its other sports. ….There is a chance they could work a similar deal like ND has with the ACC. IDK…

It’s also worth noting that UT officials at one time indicated after the PAC deal failed they would never move to the PAC because of the hardships it would put on its athletes due the travel time zone issues and that if they did chance times zones in a conference move it would be to the east. The idea was reinforced to UT people about 2 or 3 years ago when they played a night football game at California and did not arrive back home until something like 6 or 7 AM the next day….Besides lower distributions in the future this is another big strike against the PAC for OU.

I would agree that OU is taking less money right now to help prop up everyone else in the Big 12 conference not named UT. The Big 12 has was to many small to tiny fan bases and low population states to be long term viable for OU.

[GoGators]

This is not true at all. Once Texas backed out the deal was done. There was no chance of OU moving independently and it had nothing to do with a decision Boren made on his own. It had zero to do with the PAC not wanting OSU. OSU would have went to the PAC if the deal would have been made with Texas. It wasnt OU's decision to make. It was Texas decision and everyone else was going to do what Texas decided. And they did exactly that.

[soonerheart]

first, because the big 12 is going to die once the current tv deal expires... so OU is going to have to figure out what they are going to do with regards to other sports .

A lot of OU people don’t understand this^ yet.

The differences in money are going to be too great to stay in this very unstable and disadvantaged Big 12…that state of Texas officials have dictated too.

There is no telling how many thousands of hours have been wasted by OU officials over the last 8 years on conference realignment that could have been spent building a better OU

[Dob Hooligan]

We can make zero assumptions based on current TV deals. I think all of the conference deals were set up around 2015 in anticipation of the TV sports network explosion that happened then. NBC Sports Network, CBS Sports Network and Fox Sports One all came on screen around the same year. ESPN overpaid to maintain as much programming as they could and did the same with employees, resulting in the layoffs of the last couple years. NBC, CBS and Fox all overpaid in order to get what programming they could. When all these deals expire in the 2022-25 range all the cord cutting will have leveled off, cable and streaming will have morphed into the same thing, and over the air will change to a new part of the frequency spectrum that allows stations to register what sets are watching their station when and for how long. And all local over the air stations will be streaming live as well.

We have to consider how popular college football will be then. In 2005 NASCAR was unstoppable, now it is in free fall. Will CFB follow? Will the SEC lose popularity because America is tired of their dominance and reject them as a regional draw? Who will show national popularity? Will the unique positioning of OU in the heartland of America, with their beautiful Crimson and Cream colors, with the undeniable bond between California and Oklahoma, make OU the biggest national draw on televised CFB?

[soonerheart]

This is not true at all. Once Texas backed out the deal was done. There was no chance of OU moving independently and it had nothing to do with a decision Boren made on his own. It had zero to do with the PAC not wanting OSU. OSU would have went to the PAC if the deal would have been made with Texas. It wasnt OU's decision to make. It was Texas decision and everyone else was going to do what Texas decided. And they did exactly that.

You are just wrong about parts of what you say. This article clearly states the OU/ Boren position after UT twice said they would not move to the PAC…. This shows how Boren wanted to move OU to the PAC with OSU. When this deal fell through it was extremely embarrassing for Boren & OU and it weaken OU’s hand when dealing with UT.

This talks about some of the criticism about OSU academics. Some PAC members also had concerns about OU’s academics.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/colleges...tandoff/20453/September 13, 2011
Texas and Oklahoma never got along so it’s no real surprise Texas’ meeting with Oklahoma’s brass Sunday failed miserably. The end result is another small step toward Pac-12 expansion.

Baylor, Iowa State and other Big 12 schools may threaten to sue the SEC over it’s acceptance of Texas A&M, but that may not stop Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from heading west. It seems inevitable after Sunday. Texas athletic directors DeLoss Dodds and Chris Plonsky met with Oklahoma officials in an attempt to pursued them to stay in the Big 12.

They refused and according to the Austin American-Statesman, Oklahoma’s board of regents has instructed school president David Boren to seek formal application to the Pac-12. Once Texas A&M becomes a member of the SEC — and that could be a year depending on the strength of the potential lawsuit — Oklahoma and Oklahoma State will make it the Pac-14.

“There’s nothing Texas could have offered Oklahoma that would have changed their mind. They were set on leaving the Big 12 before Texas got there,” a Big 12 source told the American-Statesman. “The Big 12’s done. Oklahoma wasn’t open to creating Big 12 stability.”

Scott has also said when discussing expansion that he’s fine with 14 although that makes for awkward seven-team divisions. He knows Texas and Texas Tech will eventually follow. Texas doesn’t have many choices. It could go independent, which Dodds has said repeatedly he doesn’t want to do; join the ACC which might be so desperate for football clout that it would allow Texas to bring its Longhorn Network; or join the Pac-12 which by then may have a creative way to fold in the Longhorn Network.

The next big question is how the Pac-12 presidents feel about an Oklahoma State entering the league. I’m sure it’s a fine institution, but get the Pac-12 presidents together and none will say Oklahoma State belongs in their same league — academically. I want to see the importance of having an even number of teams compared to the Pac-12’s view down its nose at Oklahoma State’s curriculum.

[Dob Hooligan]

^^^Are you using a 7 year old blog post as the basis of your argument?
The next thing I see is “Texas and Oklahoma never got along”. How is it that Nebraska and Texas A&M have left the Big 12 while OU, OSU and UT stand together?

[jonny d]

^^^Are you using a 7 year old blog post as the basis of your argument?
The next thing I see is “Texas and Oklahoma never got along”. How is it that Nebraska and Texas A&M have left the Big 12 while OU, OSU and UT stand together?

They were smarter than OU is. UT controls the officials, has their own network (and hijacks any attempts for a Big 12 Network), and has more money than all the other schools combined at their disposal. They alone wanted Louisville to stay out of the Big 12, and thus Louisville was left out. TAMU and Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri were much smarter than Boren and OU were then. And still are now.

[dankrutka]

Yeah, it's going great for the schools that left. Nebraska is completely irrelevant. Neither Mizzou nor A&M are in a better position or have had any addition success. The grass is always greener on the other side.

[soonerheart]

^^^Are you using a 7 year old blog post as the basis of your argument?
The next thing I see is “Texas and Oklahoma never got along”. How is it that Nebraska and Texas A&M have left the Big 12 while OU, OSU and UT stand together?

It’s from the Denver Post.... It is accurate and has as much credibility as any source.

[GoGators]

Where in this article does it state that OU was offered in the PAC 12 but Boren declined because OSU was not let in because of academics? It isn’t in there because it never happened. The part you bold about OSUs academics is just speculation from the author on what he thinks some presidents might think about OSU.

The only true deal that was on the table was in 2010 when the PAC 12 offered Texas, Texas A&M, OU, OSU, TTU, and Colorado. When Texas decided to stay the other teams followed what Texas did. Colorado left early because they were worried they would be left out of the original list. Once the deal fell through the PAC 12 added Utah to get to 12.

The only reason OU remains in the big 12 is because Texas said so. The Longhorns run the conference and everyone else is just along for the ride.

[soonerheart]

Yeah, it's going great for the schools that left. Nebraska is completely irrelevant. Neither Mizzou nor A&M are in a better position or have had any addition success. The grass is always greener on the other side.

If OU stays in the Big 12 it’s very likely the differences of the new TV contracts between the Big 12 and B1G/ SEC will over time put OU at a competitive disadvantage due to money. To stay economically competitive OU would need to move to the B1G with UT and or KU …or else the SEC…. unless something has changed I don’t really believe OU is interested in the SEC. It’s been considered OU’s last resort.

It doesn’t make any difference what those former Big 12 universities are doing or not…It’s no indication of future success or failure for OU…. which will be based on the competence of who we have hired if OU is in the SEC or B1G

[soonerheart]

Where in this article does it state that OU was offered in the PAC 12 but Boren declined because OSU was not let in because of academics? It isn’t in there because it never happened. The part you bold about OSUs academics is just speculation from the author on what he thinks some presidents might think about OSU.

There were concerns about both OU and OSU academics!

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...ant-to-expand/
Academics would be a point of contention if the status quo unravels, however.

Sources said that at least five schools (Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA and Washington) have serious questions about admitting the Oklahoma schools, which are not members of the Association of American Universities.

[soonerheart]

The only true deal that was on the table was in 2010 when the PAC 12 offered Texas, Texas A&M, OU, OSU, TTU, and Colorado. When Texas decided to stay the other teams followed what Texas did. Colorado left early because they were worried they would be left out of the original list. Once the deal fell through the PAC 12 added Utah to get to 12.

.

^This is just not true.
OU was trying to leave the Big 12 when UT would not make further compromises on its LHN…
Other than not showing High School content I can’t remember Boren getting anything he wanted from UT with regard to the LHN…which pissed off a lot of OU people


https://newsok.com/article/3606252/p...for-ou-and-osu
Pac-12 stays put, limiting options for OU and OSU

September 21, 2011

The Pac-12 Conference announced Tuesday night that it would not expand at this time, apparently ending one of the two stated options of OU and OSU.

Just after 10 p.m. Oklahoma time, the Pac-12 released a statement that in part read “In light of the widespread speculation about potential scenarios for Conference realignment, the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors have affirmed their decision to remain a 12-team conference.”

[GoGators]

Again, where is the proof that OSUs academics kept OU out of the PAC 12?
I see an article that questions both universities academics.

You said Boren made a mistake by not leaving the big 12 because OSU was not admitted to the PAC 12. That simply did not happen.

[soonerheart]

They were smarter than OU is. UT controls the officials, has their own network (and hijacks any attempts for a Big 12 Network), and has more money than all the other schools combined at their disposal. They alone wanted Louisville to stay out of the Big 12, and thus Louisville was left out. TAMU and Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri were much smarter than Boren and OU were then. And still are now.

What I hate most about Texas is how their politicians have twice become involved in membership decisions of the Big 12…

Then along with the others who have no other choice but to appease Texas there seems to be a tendency for the Texas school to vote as a bloc on conference matters….OU needs to remove itself from this bad marriage.
There are real reasons why so many have left UT dominated conferences.

[Dob Hooligan]

Man, this is the greatest thread ever!
Please forgive me if I emulate the United States Senate and say something like “My dear friend and colleague from XXX is a drunken adulterer who fornicates with barnyard animals”.
OU is good for UT and UT is good for OU. They have a symbiotic relationship. So while Nebraska and A&M run away, OU and OSU reap the benefit of staying close to UT. Texas has put themselves in the position of needing OU and OSU.

[soonerheart]

Again, where is the proof that OSUs academics kept OU out of the PAC 12?
I see an article that questions both universities academics.

You said Boren made a mistake by not leaving the big 12 because OSU was not admitted to the PAC 12. That simply did not happen.

It’s as simple as Boren would not leave OSU behind….nearly everyone knew this at the time…Boren kept OU attached to OSU's hip. That angle was very well covered. You can look that up yourself. I have provided you information that shows there were academic concerns coming from several sources. Even the Missouri Governor was taking shots at OSU and Tech academics.

Boren shopped the OU-OSU package deal around to the PAC, SEC and B1G and was rejected in every case but he received very positive interest should OU ever decide to dump OSU.

OU has twice turned down SEC opportunities. It 100% did happen! regardless of what you say or think!

[soonerheart]

Man, this is the greatest thread ever!
Please forgive me if I emulate the United States Senate and say something like “My dear friend and colleague from XXX is a drunken adulterer who fornicates with barnyard animals”.
OU is good for UT and UT is good for OU. They have a symbiotic relationship. So while Nebraska and A&M run away, OU and OSU reap the benefit of staying close to UT. Texas has put themselves in the position of needing OU and OSU.

UT needs OU and OU needs UT but they will both be just fine without OSU and all the other old Big 8 members and they know it.

[dankrutka]

It doesn’t make any difference what those former Big 12 universities are doing or not…It’s no indication of future success or failure for OU…. which will be based on the competence of who we have hired if OU is in the SEC or B1G

OU could stay relevant in any conference. It has enough history, brand, and success to do well. It's certainly proven that OU can succeed in the Big 12. There's no reason to think the football program would have any more success with a few more million dollars in a differeent conference. Lots of schools get good payouts from these big TV deals and see absolutely no return on the investment.

FYI, just a clarification of terms. Most of the "facts" and "truth" you proclaim in this thread are actually just opinions and speculation. Where OU should be is a matter of informed opinion, but there is no clear right/wrong answer. The conversations are more enjoyable if you approach them that way.

[GoGators]

OU needs Texas way more than Texas needs OU.

Boren shopping OU and OSU around as a package and getting turned down is just wrong. Every article you have used has said absolutely nothing to back this up. OSU wasn’t even Borens to shop around.

I see what you are doing. You don’t like OU being in the Big 12 so you’re going to blame Boren because you don’t like his politics and you’re going to blame OSU because “little Brother!”. The truth is OU will not venture out without Texas. That is the only reason OU is in the big 12.

[soonerheart]

OU could stay relevant in any conference. It has enough history, brand, and success to do well. It's certainly proven that OU can succeed in the Big 12. There's no reason to think the football program would have any more success with a few more million dollars in a differeent conference. Lots of schools get good payouts from these big TV deals and see absolutely no return on the investment.

FYI, just a clarification of terms. Most of the "facts" and "truth" you proclaim in this thread are actually just opinions and speculation. Where OU should be is a matter of informed opinion, but there is no clear right/wrong answer. The conversations are more enjoyable if you approach them that way.

I would agree that OU could stay relevant in any conference but we are not talking about a few million in difference its more likely to be in the 10 to 30 million range of difference in a few short years according to speculation I have seen. I don’t understand how or what but the TV landscape is going to change very significantly in the next rounds of media negotiations.
Add the difference up over 5, 10, 20 and 30 years and more and it becomes a huge sum of money that OU doesn’t have to reinvest in its own programs.

OU’s third tier FOX contract will be renegotiated probably sometime next year…the rumor is it will be a short term deal so that OU will be able to leave the Big 12.

PS: The informed opinions and facts always follow the money to a large degree.

[soonerheart]

OU needs Texas way more than Texas needs OU.

Boren shopping OU and OSU around as a package and getting turned down is just wrong. Every article you have used has said absolutely nothing to back this up. OSU wasn’t even Borens to shop around.

I see what you are doing. You don’t like OU being in the Big 12 so you’re going to blame Boren because you don’t like his politics and you’re going to blame OSU because “little Brother!”. The truth is OU will not venture out without Texas. That is the only reason OU is in the big 12.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsext...d735c1501.html
Boren said OU would remain tied with Oklahoma State no matter what.

T. Boone Pickens said OSU will be immediately ready to respond to any decisions or moves made by OU officials.

Boren also acknowledged a desire to remain affiliated with the University of Texas - UT regents held a special meeting Wednesday and granted president Bill Powers similar authority - but also said OU would act independent of whatever the Longhorns decide.

"We're not gonna cede our sovereignty to this question to anybody else, to any university in any other state," Boren said. "We're going to do what we think is best for the University of Oklahoma.

"I think we're always stronger when Texas and Oklahoma move together. Just as we're stronger when Oklahoma State and Oklahoma work together."
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...f1b317da3.html
Despite a public statement to the contrary, the University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State University may not have seen an apparent snub coming from the Pac-12 conference, according to published reports and records obtained through the Oklahoma Open Records Act.

OU President David Boren reportedly said that it was OU and OSU deciding not to move to the Pac-12 instead of the schools being snubbed, the World has reported.

Larry Scott, commissioner for the Pac-12 Conference, appeared to have reached a dead end with finding a way to bring Texas into the Pac-12, according to an ESPN interview.
If that's the case, OU's and OSU's chances for moving out of the Big 12 were defeated before either school voted to give Boren and Hargis authority to explore conference options.

[PhiAlpha]

OU needs Texas way more than Texas needs OU.

Boren shopping OU and OSU around as a package and getting turned down is just wrong. Every article you have used has said absolutely nothing to back this up. OSU wasn’t even Borens to shop around.

I see what you are doing. You don’t like OU being in the Big 12 so you’re going to blame Boren because you don’t like his politics and you’re going to blame OSU because “little Brother!”. The truth is OU will not venture out without Texas. That is the only reason OU is in the big 12.

Who needs who more is certainly up for debate, but it was widely reported that in addition to the Big 12 South group offer from the Pac 12, OU had an offer to go to the SEC with Texas A&M. Boren turned it down because he didn’t want to lose BOTH the Texas and OSU rivalries. This article at least makes it sound like Boren has a lot to do with OU’s decision to remain in the Big 12 and basically says that Boren was going to shop OSU around if the Big 12 had fallen apart completley.

“Last Friday, Oklahoma State president Burns Hargis confirmed that his school "never had an offer" from the SEC, "so it was never anything to consider." Both he and Boren expressed a strong interest in sticking together through any future conference realignment.
"Had the Pac-10 thing fallen apart, had the Big 12 minus two not been put back together, we would have probably ended up having much more serious conversations with the SEC, and [asked] would they take OSU and Texas, for example," Boren said. "It never got to that."

“Boren said the SEC extended offers only to Oklahoma and Texas A&M, both of which opted to stay in a slimmed-down Big 12 after Colorado left for the Pac-10 and Nebraska left for the Big Ten. Because the SEC offer didn't include two of the Sooners' key rivals, Oklahoma State and Texas, Boren said he didn't consider it a good option.”

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/n...ory?id=5319856

[jedicurt]

so... back to that billion in debt...

[Dob Hooligan]

Am I correct in assuming that OU is not cash flow negative? The quote in post #249 would lead me to believe the primary causes of the losses for 2016-17 are reduced state funding left the classroom overhead structure higher than current (or future) revenue, and an unfunded pension/benefit liability?