Stadium District (formerly Producers Coop)

[bradh]

I hope Urbanized is right and we will see some big uptick in conventions since we have this big new strategically located convention center paid for with $300 million of the taxpayer's money - because that is what its going to end up costing if we're lucky.

And the people who support the convention center probably say the same thing in regards to the streetcar, that they hope its more than just some toy train to shuttle people around the CBD/Bricktown/Midtown. I wouldn't cast stones about budgets yet until you see how much it's actually going to cost to put the streetcar in (hint: more than what you probably think. Also, I'm not anti-streetcar, just pointing that out).

[BDP]

I never assumed animosity from you or said you were suggesting nefarious motives; not sure why you took that part personally. I'd urge you to read my comments again. I said "people in the CC thread" were suggesting these things. If you doubt this and have a strong enough stomach, I'd encourage you give that thread a read-through. It is rife with such allegations.

By the way, you hit the nail on the head about offering "extreme convenience." Currently, this is the biggest thing OKC offers to differentiate us from cities we are bidding against. It is our calling card. I know this not from reading articles like the one I linked above, but instead by personally speaking with many, many dozens of meeting planners over the past 13 years, and by often playing a substantial role in the pitches being made for conferences and conventions. If the CVB gets them here, they want to book. They are ALWAYS wowed by the destination, and the number one comment is how amazed they are by how compact and walkable the we are to hotels, entertainment and other amenities. It is what allows us to compete.

But usually they want to wait for the new building. But for the terrible facilities situation we currently are saddled with, we would be holding our own with much larger and well-established convention cities.

Sorry for misreading and taking those comments as directed at me. It seemed like you were lumping in the sentiments of others into my comments as if they were the same.

I get the extreme convenience part and I think it's a very good point. It is certainly a mitigating factor when competing with larger markets who have massive facilities placed in more out of the way locations. At first thought, I just didn't see this site as a departure from that strategy and didn't realize it was inconvenient or that it doesn't didn't meet a hard coded standard.

Again, I do agree we need a new convention center. I just don't want to see its placement ignore the opportunity costs of not being able to develop the real estate in another way. Personally, I don't think that walk-ability should just be about distance. Even if the site is farther than some other proposed locations from full service hotels, it would force convention visitors through our most visitor oriented area downtown. They may walk a little farther, but they would be walking past our businesses that are best suited to cater to them every day they are here. That could be seen as good thing, right?

[jccouger]

How about instead of investing in land acquisition near a "readied" site, we use the money to invest in a larger convention hotel? Nothing says convenience like staying in the hotel connected to the convention center, and with a larger hotel every attendant can stay there.

Normally people only seek out entertainment & dining after the convention is done for the day. Most conventions of any size that would require a convention center will provide lunch at the actual convention center. Going out to eat for lunch is going to take a huge chunk of time anyway, even if you have to walk an extra 5 minutes in both directions so I don't really see the necessity of such a nitpick time frame even if studies say otherwise. In general most people won't find that to be a hindrance once they aren't constricted by a time frame in the afternoon.

I'd rather the convention center spur development instead of feeding off existing developments. If the convention center is built with empty surrounding land it is almost a foregone conclusion that retail, restaurants & nearby hotels will soon pop up. The convention center is a long term investment, I'm not sold on picking a site that works best today instead of tomorrow.

[BDP]

I'd rather the convention center spur development instead of feeding off existing developments. If the convention center is built with empty surrounding land it is almost a foregone conclusion that retail, restaurants & nearby hotels will soon pop up.

It seems logical, but I don't know if that's really a forgone conclusion. I've kind of seen it both ways. I like the general thinking of capitalizing on what we have and making it stronger than starting more from scratch, but either way I do hope it spurs more development. I just think we still have ample opportunity for that in downtown.

[jccouger]

It seems logical, but I don't know if that's really a forgone conclusion. I've kind of seen it both ways. I like the general thinking of capitalizing on what we have and making it stronger than starting more from scratch, but either way I do hope it spurs more development. I just think we still have ample opportunity for that in downtown.

I'm not saying the place should be built out in the boonys. I still think it should be within close proximity to downtown & Bricktown. Easy walking distance for sure. I just don't think it needs to be right in the middle of everything initially, as our downtown is bound to grow & will eventually be encompassed within everything that is needed.

[kevinpate]

But building a larger convention hotel so everyone could stay does not mean they would stay there. Many folks, as has been discussed before, have brand loyalty, even if it is not the most convenient location.

I have a relative who does a lot of speaking engagements. He really likes a particular hotel, and it isn't high dollar. He'll take their brand anytime it won't be a nightmare to get where he is speaking. Even if it is not close, and even if the event is willing to put him in the event hotel. We recently went to the same conference as participants. Had he not bunked with me, he would have stayed at his preferred place rather than the conference hotel. He says he knows what to expect and they treat their frequent repeat travelers well.

[Just the facts]

You will be hard pressed to find any convention center oriented development in any city, except for subsidized hotels.

[bombermwc]

I'm not saying the place should be built out in the boonys. I still think it should be within close proximity to downtown & Bricktown. Easy walking distance for sure. I just don't think it needs to be right in the middle of everything initially, as our downtown is bound to grow & will eventually be encompassed within everything that is needed.

Im thinking OKC is going off of the belief that OKC is NOT a tier 1 convention city. If Vegas moved their CC out to the edge of town, developments would spring up like crazy because of the number of conventions they bring in. OKC is growing this business, and a new space will help, but we're not the first on most lists. Quite a few of the conventions that go on are more local than national. If it moved, say south of the river, it's entirely possible that it would DETRACT from OKC's drive to attract new conventions. Put it in an already busy area like downtown, and people can more easily make use of the existing "stuff". Maybe with the next one, we could follow tha tplan jccouger, but I don't think OKC is ready for that yet. Both are necessary to each other at this time.

[jccouger]

You will be hard pressed to find any convention center oriented development in any city, except for subsidized hotels.

Is that because convention attendees usually don't leave the convention center / hotel to spend money?

[jccouger]

Im thinking OKC is going off of the belief that OKC is NOT a tier 1 convention city. If Vegas moved their CC out to the edge of town, developments would spring up like crazy because of the number of conventions they bring in. OKC is growing this business, and a new space will help, but we're not the first on most lists. Quite a few of the conventions that go on are more local than national. If it moved, say south of the river, it's entirely possible that it would DETRACT from OKC's drive to attract new conventions. Put it in an already busy area like downtown, and people can more easily make use of the existing "stuff". Maybe with the next one, we could follow tha tplan jccouger, but I don't think OKC is ready for that yet. Both are necessary to each other at this time.

I understand that it is for sure more of a positive to locate the convention center within an already successful area, I'm just trying to focus our efforts for success 20-30 years from now while still being able to invest more in the current site outside of land acquisition. Our downtown will grow & sprawl over the next 30 years whether we locate the convention center on the outskirts of the area or right in the middle of what has already grown. I'd be willing to sacrifice 10 years of convention business for this. Every site selection has included "expansion" when we could include the expansion right now for cheap because we saved money on land acquisition, and in 10 years the site will be just as established as the sites they are wanting to place it now.

[Just the facts]

Is that because convention attendees usually don't leave the convention center / hotel to spend money?

No, it is because one can't run a business with a convention-goer customer base (there just isn't enough of them) and CC's by their very nature kill walkability for residents.

Let me ask, what kind of businesses are you all expecting to pop up around it?

[bombermwc]

I actually agree with JTF here. There is a VERY limited type of business you're going to get, and it's mostly eateries. Throw in a few bars and some minor entertainment venues, but as said, they need to be able to sustain themselves when a convention isn't here. And what TYPE of convention matters a lot. most of ours are local and don't bring in a lot of out-of-town hotel stayers. That makes a big difference since locals go home after the show and dont stay near by to spend money or sleep. What OKC is trying to do with the new space, is get us into the next market so we can attract more of the shows that bring those visitors in to town. But the proximity to Bricktown is what makes the CC more attractive for shows. If you threw it out in the "sticks" of downtown, so to speak, it would not be as attractive. Either people need to be able to walk over there, or that rail needs to make it SUPER easy to get there.

[shawnw]

New idea... this site can be the new "club district". No one near to bother. Don't even need to tear down the structures since they don't have windows already. You're welcome.


:-)

[Laramie]

The big question; where do we go from here:

The Producers Coop Mill would be a site to consider for a future sports venue; although it has its drawbacks like site acquisition & preparation. Long-term, you probably want a convention center complex located close or adjacent to our current Chesapeake Energy Arena in order to utilize potential conventions which could incorporate use of The Peake.

Also, how advantageous would area hotels like Sheraton, Skirvin, Renaissance & Courtyard by Marriott be used for overflow if and when OKC reaches the point where it can attract some key tier II type conventions; do we plan now for overflow should a 600 room conference hotel reaches hotel room block capacity?

[Urbanized]

We already have meetings and conventions of over 600 rooms, quite often. July 24th through 26th we will have the Women of Faith conference, which is expected to have 10,000 attendees. In August we have the United Pentecostal Church International Youth Congress Annual Convention with 20,000 total attendees and nearly 5,000 peak rooms. Try putting THAT into a streetcar, BTW. These events are known as city-wides, meaning they fill rooms throughout the entire city. Again, the conference hotel is usually utilized by officials, organizers, speakers, vendors, etc., and convention attendees generally book at other properties for a myriad of reasons (rewards programs, budget, etc.).

[Just the facts]

When you say 20,000 total attendees, do you mean 5,000 individuals here for 4 days?

What percentage of the 10,000 attendees for the Women of Faith conference do you think are from Central Oklahoma?

[Urbanized]

When you say 20,000 total attendees, do you mean 5,000 individuals here for 4 days?

What percentage of the 10,000 attendees for the Women of Faith conference do you think are from Central Oklahoma?

1. When I say 20K attendees, I mean 20K attendees. The room count is a lower number (though still huge) because of room sharing AND because some cycle in and some cycle out during the event. The 5K is PEAK rooms booked, but the room nights is multiples of that number. Try getting lunch in downtown those days, I dare you. And this includes in the CBD, Film Row and elsewhere. I'd shoot for early or late lunch. The CVB is currently working with many, MANY in the hospitality industry to handle this crush of kids.
   
   
2. Regarding WOF the percentage from central OK is around 10% to 15%, meaning 85% to 90% from outside central OK. This is why over the past decade or so WOF has become one of the most eagerly anticipated events in the attractions and hospitality industry. Those ladies love to eat out, shop, and check our local attractions. The descend upon downtown (plus area attractions, malls and the like) and put TONS of cash into the local economy.

Of course, many of the people on this board who render opinions regarding conventions and the industry are never exposed to events of this type, so they assume that they just don't happen in OKC. Out of sight, out of mind.

[Just the facts]

We must be thinking about 2 different Women of Faith conferences. The one I am thinking about is a traveling show.

[GaryOKC6]

1. When I say 20K attendees, I mean 20K attendees. The room count is a lower number (though still huge) because of room sharing AND because some cycle in and some cycle out during the event. The 5K is PEAK rooms booked, but the room nights is multiples of that number. Try getting lunch in downtown those days, I dare you. And this includes in the CBD, Film Row and elsewhere. I'd shoot for early or late lunch. The CVB is currently working with many, MANY in the hospitality industry to handle this crush of kids.
   
   
2. Regarding WOF the percentage from central OK is around 10% to 15%, meaning 85% to 90% from outside central OK. This is why over the past decade or so WOF has become one of the most eagerly anticipated events in the attractions and hospitality industry. Those ladies love to eat out, shop, and check our local attractions. The descend upon downtown (plus area attractions, malls and the like) and put TONS of cash into the local economy.

Of course, many of the people on this board who render opinions regarding conventions and the industry are never exposed to events of this type, so they assume that they just don't happen in OKC. Out of sight, out of mind.

20000 my be a conservative number for this group. Plus I am told that they are all on their own for lunch which will give the restaurants a huge kick.

[Bellaboo]

We must be thinking about 2 different Women of Faith conferences. The one I am thinking about is a traveling show.

Women Of Faith Conference, Oklahoma City (Jul 2015), Oklahoma City USA - Conference

I noticed the speakers are from all over the world.

[Urbanized]

It is a traveling show. It visits multiple markets, and attracts people from all over the region of each market. There will be attendees from the metro, but also from all over the state and the region.

But dwelling on citywides as a measure of success for the CC is ridiculous, anyway. Will we host a few more citywides each year with a new CC? Of course we will. But the bread and butter for the CC will be meetings with attendance between 250 and 7500. And we will have more of them. LOTS more. Right now we can't book as many of these as we'd like, largely because of load-in, load-out challenges. We cannot host simultaneous events of any scale. We can't have overlapping load-in/load-out. It severely limits the NUMBER of events we can host.

We also have severe challenges related to other building limitations, but honestly we're WAY off-topic in this thread, which is supposed to be about the COOP.

[bombermwc]

It is a traveling show. It visits multiple markets, and attracts people from all over the region of each market. There will be attendees from the metro, but also from all over the state and the region.

But dwelling on citywides as a measure of success for the CC is ridiculous, anyway. Will we host a few more citywides each year with a new CC? Of course we will. But the bread and butter for the CC will be meetings with attendance between 250 and 7500. And we will have more of them. LOTS more. Right now we can't book as many of these as we'd like, largely because of load-in, load-out challenges. We cannot host simultaneous events of any scale. We can't have overlapping load-in/load-out. It severely limits the NUMBER of events we can host.

We also have severe challenges related to other building limitations, but honestly we're WAY off-topic in this thread, which is supposed to be about the COOP.

Amen, our industry trade show takes up the whole large exhibit space and two full days are lost by load/unload. The lack of appropriate dock space to even move things is a major pain!

But as you said, back to the Coop.

I don't see a MLB team coming...no way. But it would be a great spot for a new stadium Or maybe even put the MLS stadium there!!!

[Just the facts]

Why would this be a good place for a soccer stadium?

[shawnw]

I thought it would before I realized the access issues. Until they fix that (if they even can) it's probably not.

[Just the facts]

Hold on, are people thinking this will be a good location because of the prospect of ample parking?