OKC Light Rail System?

[venture]

You act like we don't think this stuff exists or that we wouldn't want to have it. We know it exists. I would be the first one in line if we got it. But I realize the impracticality of thinking our city of 1.2M metro could support a system used by a city/region of 12M+. Another example, the maglev in Shanghai, cost $1.2B to build and it is less than 20 miles long, but it supports a 24M metro population. Let's prove that we can wisely implement and manage our few mile $130M streetcar first, eh? Then lets make sure we can pull off commuter rail. Then, we'll see... baby steps...

Completely agree. MagLev for a local commuter rail option is just not feasible. Unless Vision has some sugar daddy with deep pockets to fund it, we need to use what we have. We have most of the lines or at least the right of way for the rail lines now for an extensive commuter rail service. We can have lines go out from OKC as far as Lawton, El Reno, Pauls Valley, Shawnee, and Guthrie.

MagLev? No. EMU's? Absolutely.

[OKVision4U]

You act like we don't think this stuff exists or that we wouldn't want to have it. We know it exists. I would be the first one in line if we got it. But I realize the impracticality of thinking our city of 1.2M metro could support a system used by a city/region of 12M+. Another example, the maglev in Shanghai, cost $1.2B to build and it is less than 20 miles long, but it supports a 24M metro population. Let's prove that we can wisely implement and manage our few mile $130M streetcar first, eh? Then lets make sure we can pull off commuter rail. Then, we'll see... baby steps...

I'm neither for / against the streetcar. It is a nice toy for the downtown district. I am fine w/ that.

I would never let any potential project like the streetcar be the "litmus" test to the HSR. Shawn, we don't have to "WAIT". This is what the Freight Rail / Airlines want us to do...is wait until another 20/30 years. No, we need to let the heavy freight sharing commuter rail go back to the old tracks.

[OKVision4U]

Completely agree. MagLev for a local commuter rail option is just not feasible. Unless Vision has some sugar daddy with deep pockets to fund it, we need to use what we have. We have most of the lines or at least the right of way for the rail lines now for an extensive commuter rail service. We can have lines go out from OKC as far as Lawton, El Reno, Pauls Valley, Shawnee, and Guthrie.

MagLev? No. EMU's? Absolutely.

Guys, I don't pay for things Twice! Why would we ( OKC Metro / Oklahoma ) pay for additional Freight / Commuter Rail service when it doesn't provide the public ANY solutions? ...Now that is the cash cow you speak of and it expensive to operate.

[venture]

Guys, I don't pay for things Twice! Why would we ( OKC Metro / Oklahoma ) pay for additional Freight / Commuter Rail service when it doesn't provide the public ANY solutions? ...Now that is the cash cow you speak of and it expensive to operate.

Well additional freight capacity is never a bad thing as fuel costs increase for trucking companies. It also helps with distribution centers and such.

You have yet to respond to how is your maglev system going to be paid for.

How does commuter rail not provide the public any solution? It definitely would allow for people to commute in from the suburbs and communities further away. So exactly what solution isn't being provided? That sounds like one...so that eliminates "any" from your statement. Start spewing the numbers to back your stance up or go waste the time of other people.

[OKVision4U]

Well additional freight capacity is never a bad thing as fuel costs increase for trucking companies. It also helps with distribution centers and such.

You have yet to respond to how is your maglev system going to be paid for.

How does commuter rail not provide the public any solution? It definitely would allow for people to commute in from the suburbs and communities further away. So exactly what solution isn't being provided? That sounds like one...so that eliminates "any" from your statement. Start spewing the numbers to back your stance up or go waste the time of other people.

All commuter rail lines are shared freight lines. The top speed is restricted. The serveral stops in between Venture are the main reason ( The Heartland Flyer ) is not a huge hit. Here is a number for you sport, 4.0 hrs to get to DFW. The consumers have said ( via lack of revenues ) that 4.0 one way is NOT a solution. So, Venture you are back to "any". ( hello...... crickets.)

[warreng88]

All commuter rail lines are shared freight lines. The top speed is restricted. The serveral stops in between Venture are the main reason ( The Heartland Flyer ) is not a huge hit. Here is a number for you sport, 4.0 hrs to get to DFW. The consumers have said ( via lack of revenues ) that 4.0 one way is NOT a solution. So, Venture you are back to "any". ( hello...... crickets.)

You still have yet to respond to how it is going to be paid for. Hello? Crickets...

[venture]

All commuter rail lines are shared freight lines. The top speed is restricted. The serveral stops in between Venture are the main reason ( The Heartland Flyer ) is not a huge hit. Here is a number for you sport, 4.0 hrs to get to DFW. The consumers have said ( via lack of revenues ) that 4.0 one way is NOT a solution. So, Venture you are back to "any". ( hello...... crickets.)

OKC-Fort Worth is not commuter rail. Try again.

[LakeEffect]

All aboard the troll train...

[venture]

All aboard the troll train...

Gotta love the holidays when people have time off work.

[OKCisOK4me]

All commuter rail lines are shared freight lines. The top speed is restricted. The serveral stops in between Venture are the main reason ( The Heartland Flyer ) is not a huge hit. Here is a number for you sport, 4.0 hrs to get to DFW. The consumers have said ( via lack of revenues ) that 4.0 one way is NOT a solution. So, Venture you are back to "any". ( hello...... crickets.)

Apparently you don't know that the Heartland Flyer route is one of the more successful route for Amtrak...

[shawnw]

You've been crickets all along regarding the funding and a reasonable plan. Let's say tomorrow we are going to replicate the Shanghai model and put in a maglev from downtown Edmond to downtown Norman. That's 32.4 miles according to Google. The Shanghai maglev costed $1.2B for 18.95mi. So that's $63.3M per mile, putting the cost of an Edmond to Norman maglev at approximate $2B. Please identify the funding source, and don't say shut down all the airlines and freight lines and make them use the new HSR lines because you still need to come up with the initial funding before shutting down those other infrastructures. This discussion cannot reasonably move forward without figuring out the funding. For example, it would be acceptable (for the sake of this argument) to say MAPS 4 should be a 20-year 1-cent sales tax so that we can fund this HSR of yours. Okay, so next step, let's get it on the ballot and take a vote among the people. Who's your council person? Let's get him involved in the discussion?

[OKVision4U]

You still have yet to respond to how it is going to be paid for. Hello? Crickets...

3 parts : 1) Expanded MAPS Initiative(s) for all the ACOG metro cities. 2) ODOT will pony up 1/3. 3) Ridership will carry the ongoing load. ...and we can take donations too Warreng / Shawn / Venture, and you guys can be the first to write your $10.00 gift to the project.

[OKVision4U]

Apparently you don't know that the Heartland Flyer route is one of the more successful route for Amtrak...

...exactly. When this is stated as a success, tells a great deal about the future of AMTRAK. 4.0 hrs to DFW....just funny.

[venture]

3 parts : 1) Expanded MAPS Initiative(s) for all the ACOG metro cities. 2) ODOT will pony up 1/3. 3) Ridership will carry the ongoing load. ...and we can take donations too Warreng / Shawn / Venture, and you guys can be the first to write your $10.00 gift to the project.

1) So you really think a sales tax initiative is going to pass for the entire area when you are saying only Norman, Edmond, and Downtown are going to benefit?

2) ODOT *WILL*...really? I guess you haven't been paying attention, ODOT isn't exactly rail friendly.

3) What are you ridership projections, what cars are you using, etc.

I will support any rail system we get if it is something I can use to commute. A single line MagLev system running a Norman-CBD-Edmond circuit is not going to work for me to commute.

[OKVision4U]

You've been crickets all along regarding the funding and a reasonable plan. Let's say tomorrow we are going to replicate the Shanghai model and put in a maglev from downtown Edmond to downtown Norman. That's 32.4 miles according to Google. The Shanghai maglev costed $1.2B for 18.95mi. So that's $63.3M per mile, putting the cost of an Edmond to Norman maglev at approximate $2B. Please identify the funding source, and don't say shut down all the airlines and freight lines and make them use the new HSR lines because you still need to come up with the initial funding before shutting down those other infrastructures. This discussion cannot reasonably move forward without figuring out the funding. For example, it would be acceptable (for the sake of this argument) to say MAPS 4 should be a 20-year 1-cent sales tax so that we can fund this HSR of yours. Okay, so next step, let's get it on the ballot and take a vote among the people. Who's your council person? Let's get him involved in the discussion?

The city of Orlando, used a budget number of $20 M p/mi.

[shawnw]

3 parts : 1) Expanded MAPS Initiative(s) for all the ACOG metro cities. 2) ODOT will pony up 1/3. 3) Ridership will carry the ongoing load. ...and we can take donations too Warreng / Shawn / Venture, and you guys can be the first to write your $10.00 gift to the project.

You FIRST have to come up with $2B. You cannot count on non-existent ridership for your startup funding. Also, if every person in OKC donated $10 to your cause, you'd have $12M.

[shawnw]

The city of Orlando, used a budget number of $20 M p/mi.

Okay, let's go with those numbers. That's still $648M, nearly the full size of MAPS 3. So, again, where is the funding? I'm willing to see this on a MAPS ballot, so get started with your grass roots campaign. Let's see a vote. ODOT gets a large portion of their funding from the feds for federal highways. They can't just divert that funding. And funding that is from the state, well, let's see what Tulsa would say about diverting state-wide ODOT funding for a OKC metro maglev. Lastly the ridership support you speak of is O&M, which we haven't even touched funding wise...

[OKVision4U]

1) So you really think a sales tax initiative is going to pass for the entire area when you are saying only Norman, Edmond, and Downtown are going to benefit?

2) ODOT *WILL*...really? I guess you haven't been paying attention, ODOT isn't exactly rail friendly.

3) What are you ridership projections, what cars are you using, etc.

I will support any rail system we get if it is something I can use to commute. A single line MagLev system running a Norman-CBD-Edmond circuit is not going to work for me to commute.

Venture, you may not be aware of this, but the OKC metro is bigger than just Edmond / Norman. Midwest City / Yukon / Choctaw / Moore / Mustang , they all benefit too. So, yes, I'm counting on their vote too.
Venture, we wont be asking ODOT. ..it will be required.
...Dentures, I'm sorry it wont work for you. But the other ridership projections ( ACOG ) have find it very useful.

[venture]

Venture, you may not be aware of this, but the OKC metro is bigger than just Edmond / Norman. Midwest City / Yukon / Choctaw / Moore / Mustang , they all benefit too. So, yes, I'm counting on their vote too.
Venture, we wont be asking ODOT. ..it will be required.
...Dentures, I'm sorry it wont work for you. But the other ridership projections ( ACOG ) have find it very useful.

Yes...because I'm so geographically challenged to not know the scope of the Metro area. What possible benefit would there be fore Midwest City, Yukon, Choctaw, Moore, Mustang, and the other metro area communities to support something that you say is only going to have stops in 3 cities.

ODOT will be required? Really? How do you intend to do that.

Other ridership projections? What projections? Share them. Also start providing your operating cost numbers. What are the tickets going to have to be to break pay the bills?

[OKVision4U]

Okay, let's go with those numbers. That's still $648M, nearly the full size of MAPS 3. So, again, where is the funding? I'm willing to see this on a MAPS ballot, so get started with your grass roots campaign. Let's see a vote. ODOT gets a large portion of their funding from the feds for federal highways. They can't just divert that funding. And funding that is from the state, well, let's see what Tulsa would say about diverting state-wide ODOT funding for a OKC metro maglev. Lastly the ridership support you speak of is O&M, which we haven't even touched funding wise...

shawn, if you are looking for cheap, then keep what you have today. Keep the deathtraps called ( On-OFF ) ramps we use today. This is what makes us OKIES. We have been eating crap for so long, we got use to it. Dude, the I-240 / I-35 New Interchange (that is getting ready to break ground soon) is over $200 M alone. And, it will have 2 cloverleafs.... why? ...because its cheap. This IS the Okie way. ...and it will take 8 years to complete. Why? ...because that is how we have always dun' it.

Yes, Light Rail will have a cost ( just like everything else has a cost). This would be put in as a MAPS for the Metro. This is what makes sense. And yes, all the outside VOTERS are on my side. This is NOT a budget debate, this is about votes.

[Tier2City]

This is what makes sense.

I knew he had a catchphrase that I was forgetting.

[OKVision4U]

Yes...because I'm so geographically challenged to not know the scope of the Metro area. What possible benefit would there be fore Midwest City, Yukon, Choctaw, Moore, Mustang, and the other metro area communities to support something that you say is only going to have stops in 3 cities.

ODOT will be required? Really? How do you intend to do that.

Other ridership projections? What projections? Share them. Also start providing your operating cost numbers. What are the tickets going to have to be to break pay the bills?

About the Shinkansen | Central Japan Railway Company

Hey Dentures, here are your numbers you were looking for. I gave them to you last time, but you must have missed them. Let me know how "CJR" is not successful. But, you said you wont be using this MagLev commuter line from Norman. ????

[venture]

About the Shinkansen | Central Japan Railway Company

Hey Dentures, here are your numbers you were looking for. I gave them to you last time, but you must have missed them. Let me know how "CJR" is not successful. But, you said you wont be using this MagLev commuter line from Norman. ????

The name calling is cute. You're true colors are really starting to show through.

Japan != Oklahoma City metro area. You know that already.

The link you posted earlier I've already looked at. However, how is the CJR site going to call them what the OKC ridership projects are going to be. Also, what is the operating cost for it to be ran in the US? You keep dodging and fail to answer the question. Are you admitting you simply don't know? It is okay to say you don't know something and we can discuss this like adults and research together. However, the tactic you are taking now is proving to be very telling. It is like flashes of Thunder are coming back when it comes to being a distraction to this forum.

[shawnw]

How do you remotely compare the ridership numbers in a region of 12M people to a metro of 1.2M people. I don't think you can just move a decimal point and say it will work that way here.

[OKVision4U]

The name calling is cute. You're true colors are really starting to show through.

Japan != Oklahoma City metro area. You know that already.

The link you posted earlier I've already looked at. However, how is the CJR site going to call them what the OKC ridership projects are going to be. Also, what is the operating cost for it to be ran in the US? You keep dodging and fail to answer the question. Are you admitting you simply don't know? It is okay to say you don't know something and we can discuss this like adults and research together. However, the tactic you are taking now is proving to be very telling. It is like flashes of Thunder are coming back when it comes to being a distraction to this forum.

This is an (Example) of real numbers for you. Not a study that has been paid for to produce a particular outcome Venture. In the business world, we try to use real data. So, go back and read to Operations ( they even put it in an excel ss for you ). Have fun!