Union Bus Station

[RickOKC]

I stand corrected, Kerry. I apologize for the misinformation.

That is a good question. Back to the demo.
(btw - I live in OKC now).

[Spartan]

Anybody that doesn't understand the deep, deep hole that OKC has had to dig out of just isn't very aware. In the context of the developed world, or even in the context of the US, OKC is very, very young. Most of the cities that JTF and others point to as their ideal have existed for a very long time and have been through many of the same problems we have experienced. Many have geographical issues containing their sprawl. Many have economic issues which altered their development patterns.

I have been blessed to have traveled the world many, many times over to most of the great cities of the world...and virtually all have traffic problems and parking problems. They have decay and rebuilding. They destroy buildings with heritage and have controversy over new development. They are fraught with corruption, stagnation, and other problems, just like we do. They are ruled by the powerful and the rich get their way. We didn't invent any of this stuff. If you want to pack up and leave for these reasons, you will be a vagabond hobo the rest of your life.

OKC has miles and miles to go. It is trying to get to good, let alone great or perfect. But I think some really, really underestimate the livability here. If OKC isn't the style they want then it will be much easier on everyone if they do go somewhere for a better match. But, if you want OKC to be a better place for succeeding generations and you are willing to help make that happen, OKC is a great challenge and not a bad place to live. Some people enjoy the work in progress, and some just have to have the finished product. Everyone is different.

If JTF thinks London is utopia, so be it. I have spent considerable time there and know it has some fabulous areas....if you can afford to hang there. But I know enough residents to know their challenges, as well. Bottom line, I hope JTF has a happy and fulfilling life wherever he is and continues to share his ideals and dogma with us here on okctalk. We should welcome his feedback after he has had time to actually immerse in a life somewhere else and give us good feedback.

I will agree that the distribution of wealth and overall equitability of OKC is vastly underrated. That said, any place worth being has traffic. It's not "you can have good development and traffic" or "you can have bad development and no traffic" though, as both that truism and your post tend to suggest. Communities that are more established than OKC aren't that different in terms of having "big city headaches." They all actually make these exact same mistakes, just not at the alarming clip that OKC is tearing down its historic buildings.

That said, considering that other cities also mistakenly tear their urban fabric down, each historic asset that OKC loses is another lost opportunity to become just as established as other cities. With a little vision, it's a huge opportunity that we can take advantage of. With the continued dearth of vision, it's slipping away.

[RickOKC]

Just as established as other cities? What does that mean, exactly?

I will agree that the distribution of wealth and overall equitability of OKC is vastly underrated. That said, any place worth being has traffic. It's not "you can have good development and traffic" or "you can have bad development and no traffic" though, as both that truism and your post tend to suggest. Communities that are more established than OKC aren't that different in terms of having "big city headaches." They all actually make these exact same mistakes, just not at the alarming clip that OKC is tearing down its historic buildings.

That said, considering that other cities also mistakenly tear their urban fabric down, each historic asset that OKC loses is another lost opportunity to become just as established as other cities. With a little vision, it's a huge opportunity that we can take advantage of. With the continued dearth of vision, it's slipping away.

[bombermwc]

You take his comment on London as an example of that RickOKC. London obviously has a much longer history and has had to evolve over hundreds of years. Great work over the years to maintain history and urbanness, but yet they still have traffic problems and it's so expensive to live there that there is a nice long list of issues that go with it. I think, and Spartan please correct me, what he was saying is that a lot of the comments here tend to be of "the grass is greener" type in that we often post here in reference to things that are done better in other cities, but we often forget to also think about the problems those cities have...which are often even worse than ours. We might do better in some areas and we do worse in others. A major part of things is the point in time OKC started to develop...heck, or even become a city. Like Houston, the advent of the car and A/C made a huge different in how the city grew compared to older cities like Boston that had their core developed long before that.

[TU 'cane]

Agreed bomber.
I have said it a few times and will keep saying it because it will always hold true: Tulsa, OKC, and Oklahoma are YOUNG.
We are a young state with young cities, we don't have near the history as pretty much anything East of the Mississippi, or West of the Rockies.
When we look at things from that perspective, you'll realize that our two major cities and state are actually doing just fine given how long we've been around and what we have to work with.
Room for improvement? Of course, but it's not all hellfire and doom as many would suggest from time to time.

[UnFrSaKn]

https://twitter.com/stevelackmeyer/s...95335103918081

[Just the facts]

Never mind - it doesn't matter.

[hoya]

https://twitter.com/stevelackmeyer/s...95335103918081

Off topic, but I have to give it to Steve. He's made great progress with the weight loss. Congrats to the guy.

[Just the facts]

I don't even undetstand why they are saving that sign. If the structure itself wasn't worth saving then who cares if its former location is memorialized? All it will do now is confuse people looking for the bus station.

[Of Sound Mind]

I don't even undetstand why they are saving that sign. If the structure itself wasn't worth saving then who cares if its former location is memorialized? All it will do now is confuse people looking for the bus station.

Always a bucket of sunshine, aren't you?

[AP]

^I think that's actually how a lot of people feel about it...

[Pete]

In the trial, Shadid's attorney called the plan to save the sign a "glass casket".

[turnpup]

In the trial, Shadid's attorney called the plan to save the sign a "glass casket".

Except in this case, there's no prince to ride up, open the casket, do kissy-poo and make the building come back to life.

[OkieNate]

I don't even undetstand why they are saving that sign. If the structure itself wasn't worth saving then who cares if its former location is memorialized? All it will do now is confuse people looking for the bus station.

Or... People will adapt and they might call it the "Union Parking Garage". If people are still looking for the bus station there, they probably have much more serious issues than being lost. This fight is over. Cheerio.

[ljbab728]

In the trial, Shadid's attorney called the plan to save the sign a "glass casket".

Vestiges of the Baum Building were also saved and put on display. It happens, for better or worse.

[Pete]

From jeepnokc:

[UnFrSaKn]

Union Bus Station sign disassembled in Oklahoma City | NewsOK.com

[Pete]

And gone:

[betts]

Maybe the sign should go in the amazing Baum Building remnants museum - the museum of what might have been.

[Laramie]

I don't even undetstand why they are saving that sign. If the structure itself wasn't worth saving then who cares if its former location is memorialized? All it will do now is confuse people looking for the bus station.

Agree,

They need to contact the Oklahoma History Center--great donation; they probably have the room to house it.

[rezman]

I've wondered why Curtis Hart couldn't get his hands on that sign. It would make a nice addition to the Muscle Car Ranch. That way it could be saved, plus be on display with many other vintage signs.

[shavethewhales]

I don't even undetstand why they are saving that sign. If the structure itself wasn't worth saving then who cares if its former location is memorialized? All it will do now is confuse people looking for the bus station.

Because the sign is neat and it's a homage to the history of that corner? For what it's worth, I care. It's really the least they could do... I don't want to see the sign shipped off to some hobbyist or museum where it is forgotten about and looses all remaining context.

[Bellaboo]

I've wondered why Curtis Hart couldn't get his hands on that sign. It would make a nice addition to the Muscle Car Ranch. That way it could be saved, plus be on display with many other vintage signs.

This sign is going to be restored and placed at this same corner within the parking garage.

[BDP]

Because the sign is neat and it's a homage to the history of that corner? For what it's worth, I care. It's really the least they could do... I don't want to see the sign shipped off to some hobbyist or museum where it is forgotten about and looses all remaining context.

Maybe, but right now, given the circumstances, it kind of comes off as more like a big middle finger than an homage.

[catch22]

Because the sign is neat and it's a homage to the history of that corner? For what it's worth, I care. It's really the least they could do... I don't want to see the sign shipped off to some hobbyist or museum where it is forgotten about and looses all remaining context.

You're correct, it was the absolute least they could do and they did it. Which is what makes this whole development disappointing and underwhelming.