Ford Center improvements up for March 4 vote

[Decious]

NO, NO, NO.. that's not what I meant at all!!!! I feel so fortunate and blessed to have Chris Paul and the rest of the team here as an intro to NBA in OKC. That's all we know about the NBA and we love them.

We all fell in love with them and they are the nicest people you ever want to meet... I met them a few different times and they were awesome.

So, when I think of NBA, thugs never enter my mind. Only great players, great times and wonderful experiences.

NO, NO, NO...that's not what I meant at all either. I actually sent you a pm a couple minutes (before you latest post) ago stating that. I was a tad late I see.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and would NEVER NEVER think that of you. Love ya. For the record, I also don't think that Solitude is a racist. I actually, agree with most that he says...but will vote yes for other reasons that I also feel strongly about. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I couldn't possibly care less whether or not someone is racist. I see that as their affair and as long as the innocent are protected, I'm cool. I would hate for Solitudes family or friends to hear that someone thought that he had an issue with race. Nevertheless, I also hate that the families of NBA players have to hear stereotypical garbage about the men that they love on a daily basis.

[Karried]

lol.. I just responded before I read this too! After all the time spent here, we know enough about each other to ever think otherwise... Love ya too!!!!

[Doug Loudenback]

From the post-game interviews at the last Hornets game here ... from the 2 year retrospective flash file ...



Damn! I love those guys! They are my kind of stereotype!

[jbrown84]

OKAY, to the nay-sayers:


I assume you have voted at least once in a presidential election. Do you mean to tell me that you agreed with 100% of the views of the candidate you voted for? Of course not. That never happens. But you vote for the person who you agree with the most, that you believe can lead the country in the right direction.

We have 2 choices:

(1) Improve the Ford Center and build a practice facility. Neither will be NBA exclusive and both will allow the city to move forward.

(2) We can vote against progress in the name of principle and drift into the history books as that city that almost made something of themselves.


Voting against this because you don't like the practice facility part is like voting for Huckabee instead of Obama because you disagree with his stance on nursing home reform. Please.

[metro]

From the post-game interviews at the last Hornets game here ... from the 2 year retrospective flash file ...



Damn! I love those guys! They are my kind of stereotype!

Doug, what we really want to know is why you have pics of sweaty guys with their shirts off.

[solitude]

I'm Sorry. It was really an aside. A question for Doug in response to how much he loves the NBA. It really has nothing to do with the funding of the practice facility. It was inappropriate and if I could remove it, or take it back, I would. Yes, I have problems with a part of the league, but I am also aware of the things they're trying to do to clamp down and clean things up - I've admired that. I painted a picture with a broad brush that wasn't anywhere close to the way it, "really is." The "Gangsta NBA" books did influence what I wrote, but what's crazy is while reading them, I was the critical one for their broad brush. So, I have no other excuses and I'm terribly sorry for the stupid post. I have made a couple of posts lately that I feel are, "out of character," and I need to figure out what's up. That kind of thing usually is a reflection of something else simmering someplace. Again, I am sorry and I feel completely foolish.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm Sorry. It was really an aside. A question for Doug in response to how much he loves the NBA. It really has nothing to do with the funding of the practice facility. It was inappropriate and if I could remove it, or take it back, I would. Yes, I have problems with a part of the league, but I am also aware of the things they're trying to do to clamp down and clean things up - I've admired that. I painted a picture with a broad brush that wasn't anywhere close to the way it, "really is." The "Gangsta NBA" books did influence what I wrote, but what's crazy is while reading them, I was the critical one for their broad brush. So, I have no other excuses and I'm terribly sorry for the stupid post. I have made a couple of posts lately that I feel are, "out of character," and I need to figure out what's up. That kind of thing usually is a reflection of something else simmering someplace. Again, I am sorry and I feel completely foolish.

Not a problem, solitude, I've certainly said things I'd take back later, and I'm sure will do so again ...

How was my answer, though?

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug, what we really want to know is why you have pics of sweaty guys with their shirts off.

Hey, if I could have been in the locker room taking the pics, I'da been there! Those 2 images are from the Oklahoman's neat video at the end of the season ... I don't know if it's still on line, though.

[solitude]

Hey, if I could have been in the locker room taking the pics, I'da been there! Those 2 images are from the Oklahoman's neat video at the end of the season ... I don't know if it's still on line, though.

I'm sorry, Doug...I didn't mean to ignore your answer. I was wallowing in my stupidity. Your answer was very well thought out, heart-felt and accepted as an honest attempt to answer my dumb question. I especially like your specific examples; and the importance you place in it being more than just a game in its bringing people together for a good time (a seat in loud city, pride, good works, etc.). It was all very well stated and I should have written that in the post above. But then again, there's not a lot you write that isn't well-stated. You do your cause justice. I mean that.

[Karried]

Heavy sigh, just thinking about the Hornets makes me so sad. God, I miss that team.

Solitude, many a times I wish I hadn't written something.... and I usually am too stubborn to admit it... so, I have to say that my admiration of you has increased even more so than before!

Now, let's all sing Kumba Ya and then go vote and bring us a team! woot! lol

[Doug Loudenback]

Heavy sigh, just thinking about the Hornets makes me so sad. God, I miss that team.

Oh, so do I. It's been great following the Hornets this year with their fantastic season so far, despite the pathetic support that New Orleans fans have given the team ... and it's great knowing that what we did in Okc has made that possible, and I absolutely believe that to be true. Sure, we got some good stuff, but we weren't chincy in the giving back of good stuff, either. Okc, the government, business, and the fans, were the Hornets collective life raft, and Okc did its job well. I doubt that many New Orleans people see that we did all that much but that's no big surprise, is it (rhetorical question).

Grieving is good. The ending of grieving is, too. That's what the urgency of the March 4 is all about. Were it not about getting an NBA team, the urgency would not exist at all. A nice new Ford Center would be good, but no urgency would exist with the timing of this vote.

No, a "Yes" vote does not guarantee an affirmative vote by the NBA BOG in April. But, I very seriously think that (1) Stern (himself, most probably) told Mayor Mick what had to be done for that to happen, and (2) that he also virtually assured the mayor of an affirmative BOG vote if the tax extension was embraced by city residents. The vote is not only a vote about arena improvements and the practice facility, it is a vote which, in principal, will speak volumes about the ordinary ticket-buying citizens' attitude, its heart, to support an NBA team. We have the script and whether to play it or not is in our hands.

If my speculation is incorrect, the mayor would have been pretty damn dumb to stick out his neck, wouldn't he? I don't think that our mayor is dumb. I think that he is smart. So, there you are!

I see the logic of all of this as being the surest sign we have had of Okc becoming, as soon as possible, an NBA city. While I'd certainly like it even more if logic were not needed to be relied upon to reach the conclusions that I have, the whole shebang sure as heck doesn't make any sense in any other context ... as far as I'm able to perceive, anyway.

[betts]

No, a "Yes" vote does not guarantee an affirmative vote by the NBA BOG in April. But, I very seriously think that (1) Stern (himself, most probably) told Mayor Mick what had to be done for that to happen, and (2) that he also virtually assured the mayor of an affirmative BOG vote if the tax extension was embraced by city residents. The vote is not only a vote about arena improvements and the practice facility, it is a vote which, in principal, will speak volumes about the ordinary ticket-buying citizens' attitude, its heart, to support an NBA team. We have the script and whether to play it or not is in our hands.

I think you are absolutely correct about this Doug. The reason I think so is that I've heard from several people that no one even in our city government really knows for sure if we'll get the Sonics or the Hornets. If that's the case, then it's hard to argue that these are owner driven demands. It's much more logical that David Stern has told our mayor that he was really pleased with our support of the Hornets, but he needs to know we really, really want and will support a team. This is about a lot more than an arena upgrade. Stern has allowed a couple of bad moves recently, with Memphis and New Orleans, and he doesn't want to take a team out of Seattle and find that he's got another Memphis or New Orleans. He doesn't even want to move the Hornets again, only to find he's replaced one bad deal with another. He's been in the Ford Center, and it's pretty obvious once you've been there at least once, that it's not up to average NBA standards. I've been visiting NBA arenas since the Hornets came, just out of curiosity, whenever I'm in a city that has a team. The Ford Center isn't close to any of their levels, so it's not unreasonable to ask Oklahoma City to bring it up to standards, especially when other cities are spending so much more.

Thanks for all the Hornets' stuff, too, Doug. I miss them a lot. My husband and my mother, who weren't NBA fans at all, have been telling me how much they miss the Hornets, and my mother is still following them on television as much as she can. I still think moving them is better for the NBA than moving the Sonics here, and I wonder why David Stern isn't thinking the same. I'd love to have local ownership, but until the day they move, I'll maintain that the NBA needs a team in Seattle, even without a new arena, far more than one in New Orleans. However, the day we get a team, any team, it's my team for life, regardless of where they come from.

[Slivermoon]

I have to go back to the hypocrisy of so-called "conservatives" pushing this "it's just an extension" so hard. They are the same people saying if we don't make Bush's tax cuts permanent, it's a "tax increase." The fact is, both of these things were meant to be temporary. Both of these also were sold with the "temporary" promise and both had detractors who said as long as politicians were involved it would be permanent. So far - so true.

As to the argument above by Silvermoon - paying for schools and giving money to the NBA are two very different things.
The idea the city should be subsidizing the NBA at all is ludicrous.

Paying for publically owned schools and paying for publically owned municipal facilities are nearly identical concepts. There is no subsidy to the NBA or any NBA team in the one cent tax proposal whatsoever. All improvements and facilities will be owned by the taxpayers. If you have facts to the contrary, please enlighten all of us.

[solitude]

Paying for publicly owned schools and paying for publically owned municipal facilities are nearly identical concepts. There is no subsidy to the NBA or any NBA team in the one cent tax proposal whatsoever. All improvements and facilities will be owned by the taxpayers. If you have facts to the contrary, please enlighten all of us.

Silvermoon, Good people can disagree on this topic. In my opinion, the practice facility is a giveaway to the NBA. If not, why do they make it a requirement? They can't build their own practice facility? The city owning it is a technicality as far as I am concerned. I hear two differing things this concerning this: 1) It's for the exclusive use of the NBA team 2) Other NBA cities use their practice facilities for other things. Clearing that up is important. Again, we're talking principal, what IS and what IS NOT the responsibility of the public-at-large (the taxpayers).

[Doug Loudenback]

Stern has allowed a couple of bad moves recently, with Memphis and New Orleans, and he doesn't want to take a team out of Seattle and find that he's got another Memphis or New Orleans. He doesn't even want to move the Hornets again, only to find he's replaced one bad deal with another.

Stern probably knows much of what he wants/needs to know about New Orleans. The new lease in New Orleans puts them on a short clock to stay or go and that script will be written by New Orleans fans -- it's in their hands. I don't know much/anything about Memphis except that they had a solid team when the Hornets were here and I'm ignorant about the local situation there. But, as to Seattle, what Stern doesn't yet know is whether Oklahoma City might be another Seattle in its contemporary mode and/or whether there exists Chris Van Dyk lookalike lurking around somewhere, and/or whether such a person might succeed here just as he did in Seattle. These are good questions to be answered for all involved, both for "us" and for "him."

It's also interesting to note that, in Washington, the Sonics attempted in vain to work through both state and local officials only to be met with cold shoulders all the way around. Here, we are handling the matter within our municipality without involvement or assistance being asked of/from the state. That speaks well of Oklahoma City, I think, that we are taking care of our own business, regardless of the outcome.

I recall some of the words of one of the Skirvin's out-of-state investors at its grand opening ceremony last year -- comments about the progressive nature of the city's government and business communities and the "can-do" attitude which is present here. Were that not so, the Skirvin would still be sitting empty accumulating another several thousand pounds of pigeon droppings on its roof, if it would still be occupying the corner at Broadway & Park, at all. But what we have, instead, is an AAA 4 diamond hotel with enormous value to this community.

[Slivermoon]

Silvermoon, Good people can disagree on this topic. In my opinion, the practice facility is a giveaway to the NBA. If not, why do they make it a requirement? They can't build their own practice facility? The city owning it is a technicality as far as I am concerned. I hear two differing things this concerning this: 1) It's for the exclusive use of the NBA team 2) Other NBA cities use their practice facilities for other things. Clearing that up is important. Again, we're talking principal, what IS and what IS NOT the responsibility of the public-at-large (the taxpayers).

Solitude, I agree with the sentiment of your post and appreciate it.

What the proposal states is that if the City does not have a lease with an NBA team by June, 2009, the term of the tax is reduced to 12 months and the practice facility is not built.

Yes, in many other NBA markets the teams build, and possess completely, their own practice facilities (e.g. Cleveland). In other markets, the most sophisticated practice facilities are built into the arenas (e.g. American Airlines Center and others). There simply was not room on the existing Ford Center land tract for construction of the arena improvements plus a full blown practice facility, necessitating that it be constructed off-site at an as of yet undetermined location.

There is, however, nothing that implicitly states in the proposition that the practice facility will be for the exclusive use of an NBA team. In all likelihood, it will be the subject of lease negotiations. On one hand, perhaps it could during the off-season serve as a sight for youth basketball camps or some other public purposes. On the other extreme (assuming your view of the worst-case scenario comes to fruition), what if the City owns the practice facility and rents it out to an exclusive user? As long as the City has its costs covered (capital and operating), where is the harm or offense? We as a community will still be the benefactors of a significant economic benefit as demonstrated from the Hornets’ stay in our City.

I really don’t want to belabor this issue with you. I respect your right to disagree with me. However, I respectfully disagree that the premise of my original point constitutes the concept of subsidizing the NBA, nor do I feel it to be ludicrous in any sense.

I hope this brings a sense of clarity and closure to this point. You are right, good people can disagree. Sometimes good people can agree too. You are a valued poster on this forum that I enjoy reading and whose insight I appreciate.

We'll see where the next few weeks takes us.

[johnnyboyokc]

no matter where the 1 cent sales tax goes.......it has improved our inner city, sparked new development, and built schools........lets keep it and carry on the improvements to the city.

[metro]

Solitude, I agree with the sentiment of your post and appreciate it.

What the proposal states is that if the City does not have a lease with an NBA team by June, 2009, the term of the tax is reduced to 12 months and the practice facility is not built.

Yes, in many other NBA markets the teams build, and possess completely, their own practice facilities (e.g. Cleveland). In other markets, the most sophisticated practice facilities are built into the arenas (e.g. American Airlines Center and others). There simply was not room on the existing Ford Center land tract for construction of the arena improvements plus a full blown practice facility, necessitating that it be constructed off-site at an as of yet undetermined location.

There is, however, nothing that implicitly states in the proposition that the practice facility will be for the exclusive use of an NBA team. In all likelihood, it will be the subject of lease negotiations. On one hand, perhaps it could during the off-season serve as a sight for youth basketball camps or some other public purposes. On the other extreme (assuming your view of the worst-case scenario comes to fruition), what if the City owns the practice facility and rents it out to an exclusive user? As long as the City has its costs covered (capital and operating), where is the harm or offense? We as a community will still be the benefactors of a significant economic benefit as demonstrated from the Hornets’ stay in our City.

I really don’t want to belabor this issue with you. I respect your right to disagree with me. However, I respectfully disagree that the premise of my original point constitutes the concept of subsidizing the NBA, nor do I feel it to be ludicrous in any sense.

I hope this brings a sense of clarity and closure to this point. You are right, good people can disagree. Sometimes good people can agree too. You are a valued poster on this forum that I enjoy reading and whose insight I appreciate.

We'll see where the next few weeks takes us.

what do you mean? The new renderings show the practice facility to be attached to the remodeled Ford Center on the SE side of the building.

[Kerry]

Metro - I believe that is a warm-up court on the SE side.

[Patrick]

Yup, just a practice court. The practice facility will be a separate facility.

[Doug Loudenback]

Patrick & Kerry are correct. IF a new practice facility is built (depending upon whether a contract with an NBA team has been signed by a date that I cannot presently recall), it will be located "off premises," so to speak, at an as yet undetermined location.

[metro]

Wow, Patricks back after his sabattical.

[Doug Loudenback]

Wow, Patricks back after his sabattical.

Hardly a sabattical, Metro, but I'm glad that he's back, regardless of the cause for the hiatus. You follow?

[betts]

I'm getting t-shirts printed up with "NBA" in block letters on the front, and a box with a check mark in it and the word "YES" next to it on the back. I've got a friend who has a t-shirt company, and so we will get an excellent price on them. If anyone is interested in getting one, you could PM me. If this violates TOS mods, so sorry!

I've also thought about getting a big button made that says: Ask me why I'm voting yes on March 4th. So, if anyone's interested in one of those, let me know too.

[Easy180]

Also don't forget to bug the heck out of your OKC coworkers to get out on the 4th and vote as well....Hell drive them to their location at lunch

Only have one shot at this folks...Likely never get another chance if this gets voted down