Guyutes

[PhiAlpha]

Kickstarter for attorney's fees? $50 puts you on the list for the soft opening with a plus one?

Good idea. I would throw down. I'm sure they could find support from some of the 850 people that have signed that petition.


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[BDK]

I'm in.

[dankrutka]

Pete's already made the case... maybe someone would take this pro bono for the betterment of OKC?

[DoctorTaco]

Pete's already made the case... maybe someone would take this pro bono for the betterment of OKC?

The thing about asking other people to work for free is that it always sounds awesome unless you are the person working for free.

[Dubya61]

The thing about asking other people to work for free is that it always sounds awesome unless you are the person working for free.

One day the chicken and the pig were discussing just how good the farmer was to them. The chicken decided it would be a good idea to give him a bacon and egg breakfast. The pig declared that to be a bad idea. "See here, chicken. For you, that's just a day's work. For me, it's a lifetime commitment."

[Urbanized]

If they decide to do the Kickstarter for legal fees, I'm in for $50, maybe more. I'd like to see this place happen. I'm sure some portion of the 800+ who signed the petition would be willing to put their money where their mouths are.

[Pete]

I've circled back with the Guyutes group and have offered this (the help with legal fees) as an option.

I've also passed on information about an attorney that is willing to help.

[Paseofreak]

Honestly, I'm flabbergasted, astonished and down right pissed that this has happened. I would have thought that surely these appointees would receive a pretty exhaustive training course on what their job is and the limits of their authority before being handed complete legislative authority over land use in the city.

[BoulderSooner]

Having watched pretty much every planning commission meeting in the last 5ish years I can assure you they have a very very. High opinion of themselves

[LAJJ]

Pete, thanks for your summary... My concern, is even if the owners secure an attorney (David Box or some highly qualified attorney), would an attorney be able to do anything that would sway the PC members toward a approval of the ABC2? I am concerned that no matter what they do from this point, that the PC members already have their minds made up. If the owners spent $10K on an attorney and nothing is accomplished, that would be terrible. I realize that nothing is certain even with an attorney, but I wonder what the likelyhood of approval would be after hiring an excellent attorney. Is David Box the best attorney for this type of case? I think that hiring one of the best attorney's that understands this type of case is the best solution for the owners if they want to get this situation resolved. Pete, can you email me - I would like to run an idea by you and get your opinion... Thanks!

[Pete]

Pete, thanks for your summary... My concern, is even if the owners secure an attorney (David Box or some highly qualified attorney), would an attorney be able to do anything that would sway the PC members toward a approval of the ABC2? I am concerned that no matter what they do from this point, that the PC members already have their minds made up. If the owners spent $10K on an attorney and nothing is accomplished, that would be terrible. I realize that nothing is certain even with an attorney, but I wonder what the likelyhood of approval would be after hiring an excellent attorney. Is David Box the best attorney for this type of case? I think that hiring one of the best attorney's that understands this type of case is the best solution for the owners if they want to get this situation resolved. Pete, can you email me - I would like to run an idea by you and get your opinion... Thanks!

I just sent you an email.


It's a good point... It seems the PC has dug in their heels and I seriously doubt given the tone of Janis Powers that she is suddenly going to admit they've been somehow unreasonable.

But at least with an attorney you could draft a SPUD, give some very minor concessions to hours, and let him or her argue the points.

In that way, you will have jumped through their hoop and if they just take the position of "we won't accept late hours", then at least they are pinned downed on that particular point which is easily argued against at City Council.

[MIKELS129]

I just sent you an email.


It's a good point... It seems the PC has dug in their heels and I seriously doubt given the tone of Janis Powers that she is suddenly going to admit they've been somehow unreasonable.

But at least with an attorney you could draft a SPUD, give some very minor concessions to hours, and let him or her argue the points.

In that way, you will have jumped through their hoop and if they just take the position of "we won't accept late hours", then at least they are pinned downed on that particular point which is easily argued against at City Council.

Why don't they just shut down the roof top at a certain hour during the week nites. I don't think they would get a reversal on the hours at city council.

[Paseofreak]

Why don't they just shut down the roof top at a certain hour during the week nites. I don't think they would get a reversal on the hours at city council.

Why should the Planning Commission be able to make them spend the extra money to prepare a SPUD when there are already noise ordinances in place that apply to all their neighbors, competitors and anyone else in the city. Why should the Planning Commission deny them full use of their entire property that their competitors enjoy? Why should the planning commission be able to ignore testing and sound science that shows that the problem is imaginary?

[MIKELS129]

Why should the Planning Commission be able to make them spend the extra money to prepare a SPUD when there are already noise ordinances in place that apply to all their neighbors, competitors and anyone else in the city. Why should the Planning Commission deny them full use of their entire property that their competitors enjoy? Why should the planning commission be able to ignore testing and sound science that shows that the problem is imaginary?

I guess we will agree to disagree. I do not think this area should be defined by ordinances in place for the rest of the city. It is too special. I think the ordinances in this area are too loose and need to be further defined.

if you have ever been involved in re-development in an area you might understand these growth pains.

[Teo9969]

I guess we will agree to disagree. I do not think this area should be defined by ordinances in place for the rest of the city. It is too special. I think the ordinances in this area are too loose and need to be further defined.

if you have ever been involved in re-development in an area you might understand these growth pains.

Fantastic idea.

In the meantime, quit unlawfully demanding, people/businesses to abide by ordinances that are not in effect right now. Especially in an emerging business corridor. It is quite literally a legal liability the city is taking on.

[BoulderSooner]

I guess we will agree to disagree. I do not think this area should be defined by ordinances in place for the rest of the city. It is too special. I think the ordinances in this area are too loose and need to be further defined.

if you have ever been involved in re-development in an area you might understand these growth pains.

There is nothing extra special about this area. And let's be honest parking is your biggest issue. Guess what. Mesta and HH are not gated neighborhoods. And the streets are public. If those neighborhoods want to change the parking. They can apply to get it changed

[BDK]

I just watched the Planning Commission hearing. This is beyond ridiculous. The Planning Commission wouldn't even tell the Guyutes guys what they needed to include in the SPUD when the Guyutes guys asked multiple times. How can the Planning Commission demand that Guyutes apply for a SPUD and only tell the guys that they need to "work with city staff"? Does the Planning Commission not want to go on record with their demands or are they just on a power trip?

[Paseofreak]

Even more stupid, the city staff unanimously recommended approval as-is prior to the hearing. This "Because we said so, and we don't care what existing regulations are in place or are not in place." attitude seems extremely vulnerable to legal challenge in my opinion. That may not be worth a tinker's damn, but at the very least it's quite unfair. Funny thing, Janis Powers, the pushiest of the bunch, is a retired attorney. I'd think she'd have respect for the rule of law. Maybe I've got this all wrong in my head, though. Any legal types care to weigh in? Please.

[BoulderSooner]

Why don't they just shut down the roof top at a certain hour during the week nites. I don't think they would get a reversal on the hours at city council.

They very likely would

[Paseofreak]

They very likely would

To clarify, they very likely would get a reversal?

[soonerguru]

What does it take to get an appointed commissioner removed? Council vote?

[Paseofreak]

I think appointment by the mayor, with the approval of city council. I'm getting that from the intro on Planning Commission's page on OKC.gov.

Oops! I read that as "what does it take to get appointed?" I have no idea what it takes to get booted, but a few have a good start on it IMHO!

[BoulderSooner]

To clarify, they very likely would get a reversal?

Well not a reversal. The planning commission makes recommendations. The city council then decides what to do. And many times they approve what is recommended for denial

And in this case the planning commison is asking for a full rezoning for a simple abc2 restaurant overlay.

Which is not reasonable. And I'm sure given the right argument the council would see that

[Paseofreak]

I would sure hope so. In watching the presentation by the Guyutes, guys, they looked pretty nervous and came off less than assertive. Not throwing stones; I would have been too at that age. Also, a few visual aids illustrating the decrease in sound energy with distance and the results of their specific testing might have gone a long way toward making their point. As to parking, i don't see a choice but to assertively call them out for even considering it when it's not required.

Bottom line, I hope they prevail with a simple ABC2' unfettered by additional requirements. That said, it's going to be a tough choice to gamble on that outcome.

[BDK]

What does it take to get an appointed commissioner removed? Council vote?

§ 59-3150. Planning Commission.

* * *

3150.3. Membership, Terms and Organization.

* * *

E. Removal of Members. Members of the Planning Commission may be removed by the Mayor for cause upon the filing of written charges and after a public hearing before the City Council for insufficiency, neglect of duty or malfeasance.

Municode

Just on a gut-check level, I doubt Mayor Cornett would take the steps necessary to remove a Planning Commission member at this point. It seems like an acrimonious process.